Pitt really played NOBODY in the non-conference

[jncuse]

How do you "game" the RPI?

Trying to play teams in the 100-170 range in the OOC, and avoiding the real bad teams (sub 250)

Play those teams at home, and you should still win, but your RPI is better.

 

[jncuse]

For the record SOS per KP

Pitt - 275
Syracuse - 250

The problem with most of these numerical schedule ranking systems is they don't give much extra weight to top 25 or top 50 opponets which are the typically the ore risks for losses.
1) RPI SOS - garbage for the most part Playing team #10 and #300 is considered an easier schedule then two teams around #100. But certainly we know what is more of a challenge for W-L record if you are a top 50 level team.
2) KP - it uses SOS to adjust the efficiency (which is fine), but it can't be use to compare W-L because of the same distribution issue as RPI.

 

[cuseattle]

My pronlem with both Kenpom and RPI is that a human still has to set the original rankings.

 

[cuseattle]

Our nobodies were worse as evidenced by the SOS.

Same thing with SOS. A group of humans had to decide the strong teams at the beginning.

 

[kuethstheman]

My pronlem with both Kenpom and RPI is that a human still has to set the original rankings.

I don't believe that's true of RPI.

 

[ThePoint]

The game is not going to be enjoyable. I don't know if we'll win or lose, but I do know it will likely be a disgrace to the game of basketball... it always is.

a
And that Pitt's coach will be running up and down the sideline.

 

[orange79]

I don't believe that's true of RPI.

Correct. The RPI is solely based on winning percentage of the team in question, that team's opponents' winning percentage, and the opponents' opponents' winning percentage, with different weights for home/road wins/losses. No need for an initial condition.

RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)

 

[Eric15]

Pitts OOC Rpi will go down as the season goes on as their opponents play crappy opponents. Our OOC RPI will improve because teams like UCONN, A&M, Georgetown,Wisconsin, and yes even St. John's will play good competition.

But Pitt will be playing good competition over the next two months also -- probably tougher than all the other teams you listed.

 

[Eric15]

For the record SOS per KP
Pitt - 275
Syracuse - 250

ESPN RPI has Pitt's SOS at 37 and Daily RPI has it at 89. That is some crazy variance between the three sites.

 

[Cusefan0307]

But Pitt will be playing good competition over the next two months also -- probably tougher than all the other teams you listed.

I agree. My point was because we played teams like Uconn and A&M, we in theory should be ready for a step up in competition, while Pitt has played Mid Major state throughtout the non conference.

The OOC SOS won't truly be measurable until all teams finish with their conference seasons. The math involved with any advanced metric is based on your opponents opponents record if that makes sense.

 

[zhanjuzi]

This looks like its going to be one of those games where Pitt goes up by 15 in the 1st ten minutes .. savage wide bodies against spindly twigs .. its going to be nasty. Thank goodness we have the year with Ennis when we beat them twice .. when was the last time that happened? pre-Dixon?

 

[kuethstheman]

Correct. The RPI is solely based on winning percentage of the team in question, that team's opponents' winning percentage, and the opponents' opponents' winning percentage, with different weights for home/road wins/losses. No need for an initial condition.

RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)

The NCAA version has some modifiers based on home vs. away winning percentage.

 

[rrlbees]

The NCAA version has some modifiers based on home vs. away winning percentage.

Factor I is the team's Division I winning percentage and is 25 percent of the RPI. Games against non-Division I opponents are not included in the normal RPI. For the men, beginning in 2004-05, and for the women, beginning in 2011-12, home wins are weighted 0.6, neutral wins 1.0, and road wins count 1.4, and road losses are 0.6, neutral losses 1.0, and home losses 1.4.

Factor II is the team's opponents' Division I winning percentage, or the team's schedule strength, excluding results against the team in question. It is 50 percent of the RPI.

Factor III is the team's opponents' opponents' Division I winning percentage, or the team's opponents' strength of schedule, excluding results against the team in question. Factor III is 25 percent of the RPI

 

[Bayside44]

I've been all in on college hoops my whole life - and end of the day playing in other team's Super Bowl games on the road w/out our head coach (and not our own) is something that these stat geeks can never take into account.

 

[Eric15]

I've been all in on college hoops my whole life - and end of the day playing in other team's Super Bowl games on the road w/out our head coach (and not our own) is something that these stat geeks can never take into account.

I dunno Bayside, do Pitt fans really consider us their Super Bowl? They have dominated our series since the early 2000s. They beat us in 2013 at home when we were ranked #6 and they were unranked, and they didn't rush the court.

 

[orange79]

The NCAA version has some modifiers based on home vs. away winning percentage.

Right. That's why I said "...with different weights for home/road wins/losses..."

 

[SoBeCuse]

I agree. My point was because we played teams like Uconn and A&M, we in theory should be ready for a step up in competition, while Pitt has played Mid Major state throughtout the non conference.

The OOC SOS won't truly be measurable until all teams finish with their conference seasons. The math involved with any advanced metric is based on your opponents opponents record if that makes sense.

Except Purdue is very good. They were a 9 seed last year who lost a nail biter to Cincinnati in OT in their Tourney game.

 

[pearl31]

Except Purdue is very good. They were a 9 seed last year who lost a nail biter to Cincinnati in OT in their Tourney game.

They are very good, and they dominated Pitt at Pitt :noidea:

 

[SoBeCuse]

They are very good, and they dominated Pitt at Pitt :noidea:

I know. I watched some of that. It was pretty easy for them. They were methodical, ran good offense, and I believe they have a good 7-footer. I know they were very young last year and did well in the Big 10 which was pretty strong last season. Tomorrow could be rough. :noidea:

 

[pearl31]

Tomorrow could be rough. :noidea:

playing Pitt is always rough :noidea:
I, and a few others, are just trying to point out that they've played one good team so far and lost convincingly to that team. Who knows, though, maybe they'll end up being a top ACC team this season.

 

[CusefanATL]

They played Purdue and lost by 13. The game in Asia they had against Gonzaga was canceled. They are 10-0 against low to mid majors. We will be the 2nd best team they have played all year on Wednesday. Hopefully we will be better prepared because of our schedule relative to theirs.

they were playing gonzaga pretty well

 

[JeremyCuse]

I dunno Bayside, do Pitt fans really consider us their Super Bowl? They have dominated our series since the early 2000s. They beat us in 2013 at home when we were ranked #6 and they were unranked, and they didn't rush the court.

Hes' talking about St. Johns.

 

[NateW]

We are going to play well tomorrow night. This doom and gloom stuff is ridiculous. Are we flawed? Sure, but we're going to put up a fight. Coleman and Lydon will bring their A games defensively.

P.S. I'm just happy that we've found our 7th in the 7 man rotation. That should help us going forward.

 

[Bayside44]

I dunno Bayside, do Pitt fans really consider us their Super Bowl? They have dominated our series since the early 2000s. They beat us in 2013 at home when we were ranked #6 and they were unranked, and they didn't rush the court.

Was talking about GTown and I guess a lesser extent SJU. They look like horrible losses on paper but the circumstances are different than say losing to a Drexel at home or a 75 shot from Cleveland St.

Pitt is a true peer program in every way.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We are going to play well tomorrow night. This doom and gloom stuff is ridiculous. Are we flawed? Sure, but we're going to put up a fight. Coleman and Lydon will bring their A games defensively.

P.S. I'm just happy that we've found our 7th in the 7 man rotation. That should help us going forward.

It's not doom and gloom. Just objective takes. The physical brute yet unselfish teams (even Georgetown this year) WILL give this current team big problems and to a certain extent historically these teams matchup well against Syracuse.