Play 1 after the first INT

[upperdeck]

This is the series that really has me puzzled
Play 1 we go 2 wide, they play 9 in the box. The oline slants right, the RT traps back, the fullback comes under the QB. They leave the left and right DE/LB unblocked.

now a few frames later. you can see the head of the TE at the top. the line is slanting right. the TE blocked down to the left. the blocking scheme makes no sense, if he slants right and holds his spot the Left DE/LB never gets back into the backfield. In addition the pulling tackle does not hit the LB attacking from the right and the FB has not hit anyone yet.

the play ends.. ED if he bootlegs probably scores but thats another discussion. The RT is too late adjusting to the R LB and the trailing LB gets home too. Had the TE made his block to hold that edge the blocking by the pulling RT probably isnt too late Strickland at worst gets 1-1 with the MLB at the 3 but has the whole field to also angle away from him. if the RT hits the OLB in any case he also gives Strickland room to go away from the trailing LB even if does get around the end

the play call is fine, 9 in the box you get what you can on first down The oline held up fine just the pursuit on the outside got home

 

[Cuse'91]

This is the series that really has me puzzled
Play 1 we go 2 wide, they play 9 in the box. The oline slants right, the RT traps back, the fullback comes under the QB. They leave the left and right DE/LB unblocked.

View attachment 109807

now a few frames later. you can see the head of the TE at the top. the line is slanting right. the TE blocked down to the left. the blocking scheme makes no sense, if he slants right and holds his spot the Left DE/LB never gets back into the backfield. In addition the pulling tackle does not hit the LB attacking from the right and the FB has not hit anyone yet.

View attachment 109809

the play ends.. ED if he bootlegs probably scores but thats another discussion. The RT is too late adjusting to the R LB and the trailing LB gets home too. Had the TE made his block to hold that edge the blocking by the pulling RT probably isnt too late Strickland at worst gets 1-1 with the MLB at the 3 but has the whole field to also angle away from him. if the RT hits the OLB in any case he also gives Strickland room to go away from the trailing LB even if does get around the end

View attachment 109810

the play call is fine, 9 in the box you get what you can on first down The oline held up fine just the pursuit on the outside got home

That's what happens when two evenly matched teams go at it...

 

[upperdeck]

play 2.
we got with the Fb as a TE

TE slips thru on a pass route, Elmore has no angle on either LE or LOLB and R OLB attacks again. No way reading this Dungey can hand off.. and he does.

If he keeps it a blocker and at worst 1-1 with safety to the corner with an angle.

 

[upperdeck]

not good when the whole oline is standing in a straight line.. but still should have worked.

 

[TheCusian]

Hard to say if it's coaching or mental stuff.

 

[PhatOrange]

The first thing I see wrong is the RB starts 7 yards deep. Look at the 2nd frame. The exchange has just taken place and the right LB/DB is already 3 yards deep in the backfield.

Dungey should've maybe recognized the LB/DB on the right side will be unblocked and create havoc for a slow developing play.

OL slants right, the RT pulls and kicks out the left DE, s/b a huge hole for the RB to run through. So you have a DB unblocked and a handoff that takes FAR too long to execute. You should be able to leave the R-DB unblocked if it happens faster, thats a pretty common play. Then add in McGloster who didn't get on #29 fast enough. You can tell in the 3rd frame the kid ran right by him, because McGloster is blocking him in the back as he's making the tackle.

 

[PhatOrange]

In the 2nd frame Dungey should've kept and gone around right end but again they're 7 yards deep. Is this normal?

 

[texascpa]

In the 2nd frame Dungey should've kept and gone around right end but again they're 7 yards deep. Is this normal?

As soon as Dungey sees that end coming down, he should keep the ball and scramble right. That is Read Option 101.

BTW, that last pic looks like and Offensive Conga Line. lol

 

[retro44]

Those pictures show something that is very interesting. The o-line is bunching up on purpose and the lineman are too vertical with arms and hands buried in their chests.

Then you look at the D-line they are lower than ours getting a good drive into them. I am seeing poor technique and it appears to be by design.

 

[qdawgg]

That's what happens when two evenly matched teams go at it...

Umm, what? Either you never read upperdeck post or you don't understand what he is saying about pretty basic blocking scheme/assignments.

 

[upperdeck]

it would take an insider to understand some of the blocking patterns that are being shown. there are 6-10 plays a game where the tackles are blocking into space where a play can never be run.. I get that sometimes we run a run scheme inside and swing a tackle out wide for a WR screen, but when the tackle runs out there and no WR are there what good is that deception? Other times you would swear some oline guys are blocking a sweep and the rest a dive, the dline is blowing thru some huge holes unblocked.

these goal line plays are doomed and the D is just lining straight up and over whelming them. I do think the RB are too slow getting to the ball some times and miss lanes others..

so few running plays are working i dont know where the real fault is.. our longest play by a RB is like 10 yds other than Elmore just running over people and thats it 2 games.. you could argue we havent had one decent hole to run thru yet.

 

[texascpa]

Those pictures show something that is very interesting. The o-line is bunching up on purpose and the lineman are too vertical with arms and hands buried in their chests.

Then you look at the D-line they are lower than ours getting a good drive into them. I am seeing poor technique and it appears to be by design.

Part of the problem of these quick RPO offenses is that the oline are always in a 2 point stance, while the dline is in a 3 or 4 point stance. The d line is always going to be lower and always going to have leverage.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why are you doing this to me? I had moved on from that show last weekend.

Looks like a fail by the coaches.

This play likely works if they were up against a base 4-3. Problem is that was never going to be the case. Also why go under center? That limits the threat of a QB run.

I hate when NFL teams pull OLMen in short yardage. It rarely works and more often than not the play is blown up where the OL left. Way too much can go wrong. On top of that you are running a play that takes a long time to develop while the D is in attack mode. How does that make any sense? It is like a play fake on 3rd and long. Why do teams do this? So IMO pulling the T and TE in college against an attacking D is a bad decision.

We had line checks in HS that would have kept the T home and just pulled the TE. Why in the heck didn't they do it here? Sure if #18 doesn't come on the play you are fine, but know your opponent. There is a 99% chance he is coming that play. Even if the T made a block on #29, the play still goes nowhere. If he stays home to slow down #18 the the TE can take #29, which is more likely to be successful anyway since an athletic block is needed.

On top of that the coaches could have checked out of the play. We are at the LOS with plenty of time left on the play clock. Why in the heck would you not look at the D and change the play?

You know you can't run the ball. So instead of spreading out the D you decide to bunch up and run the ball twice? That really goes for the whole game. Turtling up was playing right into Shafer's hands. There has to be plenty of film on SU's D the last 7 years. After watching similar Os why in the hell would you abandon spreading it out and attacking? Instead you decide to run the ball and go with only short passes? Sorry but that is a major fail. There was plenty of info on how to beat Shafer and we acted like it was something we had no info on. That is unacceptable.

Long term our O will be fine. I trust that Babers will get us rolling soon. But they simply did not do their job last game.

 

[SmilinBob]

Along with OL getting to the spot too late or missing blocks as well as the assignments you mentioned. Just so incredibly sloppy all around, it at times looks like two different plays ran by the same offense where one thought one play was going to X and the other Y. Agree...fix this stuff staff and players ASAP.

 

[RandomGuy]

There were plenty of plays that had me scratching my head. I have no idea how they thought it would work. And then when there was a well designed/blocked play, it seemed like there was poor decision making..

Just before 7:00 min in the half, they line up in the stick. Elmore barrels through a well blocked hole up the middle...With 2 RB's behind him.. Lo0ked like 10 yards, but he doesn't get the ball. It goes to Neal, 11 yards back, and he goes around the right, into open space, against 3 unblocked defenders.(with a FB and another RB on the field). They run it again, Elmore rightfully gets the ball, goes for 6 up the middle... They run it again... This time, instead of Adams getting the guy in front of him, he doubles up McGloster's guy, giving the DT a clear path to Elmore, for a loss. If that was Adams line call, I would have thought Elmore would have been blocking that DT, with the RB getting the ball going to the right of the center...

The communication/design/decision making on run plays was poorly executed. I mention that last series, because I saw so many yards left on the field. There are yards there for the taking. I particularly hated the pitch to Neal - 33 feet back. Elmore was already through the hole before Neal even had the ball.

 

[phil77]

One thing I noticed is not 1 offensive lineman is pushing the DL back. The game was playing on our side of the line of scrimmage. Not good for any running game at least that is what these two plays show.

 

[phil77]

First SS shows Dungey should have checked to a quick slant to ERV. Dungey isn't allowed to change the play correct? So that would have to come from the sidelines? Wait also we dont throw over the middle so that would work.

 

[TheCusian]

First SS shows Dungey should have checked to a quick slant to ERV. Dungey isn't allowed to change the play correct? So that would have to come from the sidelines? Wait also we dont throw over the middle so that would work.

It's hard to say. Is that slant a part of his read for this specific play? Don't know. But while he's not changing the play - there are reads that he's supposed to be making on pre-snap and post-snap.

Given the lack of focus during the whole game, I'd bet he missed a read.

 

[upperdeck]

I wondered that too.. If the D is going to put 9 in the box , then the slant would almost be a gimmee unless the DB jumps the route. So much space out there and we didnt use any of it 1 time. I cant see how they stuffed the box and then we ran those plays against it.. Everything but what we did would have been a better option.. Yet Dungey has kept it many times in those spots too so you know thats part of the play set..

Its also weird but Phillips/Ish didnt really run anything they just stood out there.. If the D is going t get away with man coverage out there that makes the run D even better. They didnt even bother using a safety.. With that coverage we could have run a bootleg back to the WR side. The OLB crashed so hard he has no chance since the handoff was on the other side of the QB.. if Dungey rolls back to the WR side the dbs have no chance to make a tackle and cover the WRs

 

[OrangeFoo]

It stuff like this that make me question the coaching... everyone is sure Babers will figure it out. Are we really sure that he'll figure it out? Because guess what we had these same exact problems last year. The only differences I see between last year and this is no AET no Estime. Nothing has changed in the offense that makes me think the coaches actually learned anything from last year. And no I'm not advocating for firing Dino... he gets 5 years or we turn the lights off in the dome. But I am praying he's not a meathead coach who can't change his ways. Even his responses in his coaches show about why not throw in the middle make me worried.

 

[IthacaMatt]

In the 2nd frame Dungey should've kept and gone around right end but again they're 7 yards deep. Is this normal?

Yes, that's the normal spacing for a tailback at the time of the snap.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

In fairness we are not seeing our WRs in the screen shots. If we have a run/pass option in place then it would fall on the QB to make the right read. It also explains our OL never firing off as that could cause an illegal man down field if the QB passes it.

We scored 844 points against Pitt with Mahoney at QB. We know the O works, we just need to be patient.

 

[TheCusian]

In fairness we are not seeing our WRs in the screen shots. If we have a run/pass option in place then it would fall on the QB to make the right read. It also explains our OL never firing off as that could cause an illegal man down field if the QB passes it.

We scored 844 points against Pitt with Mahoney at QB. We know the O works, we just need to be patient.

Agreed. They are out of sync, obviously. We have 14 games of tape and only one had this level of execution (or lack thereof).

I think it was an anomaly. Time to focus.

 

[Chip]

We scored 844 points against Pitt with Mahoney at QB. We know the O works, we just need to be patient.

True, but there's upside/downside to that game, at least as far as 2017 goes.

Upside is that Mo Neal doesn't need a huge hole to take off for a big run. But there needs to be one.

Downside is how many times in that game did we just throw an easy short pass to AET and he pretty much turned it into a TD on his own. Don't know who fills that role this year. So far, not seeing it. If that player doesn't exist, then we need to get more creative.

 

[PhatOrange]

Yes, that's the normal spacing for a tailback at the time of the snap.

Was asking in our offense keeping in mind Dungey was under center. I think in a fairly standard I formation (with a fullback) the tailback lines up about 6 to 7 yards deep. I believe in a single back formation with the QB under center 5 yards is fairly standard with 6 being on the high side. dont' really study it that much though.

in our set I think 7 yards was very deep and the handoff very slow to develop. 5 yards deep would've been better.