Poll - Did JB Manipulate This or Did He Just Save Us?

[IthacaMatt]

Your choices, please.

 

[supp]

Your choices, please.

Can't I pick both? Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

[tipphill]

having slept on all this. my responses have been schizophrenic at best. i conclude (to satisfy myself) that wildhack acted to quickly. much like my reactions. i think we should have stuck to the timeline, done a coaching search (which we probably have a short list),and had jb retire as planned. by extending him i think we have created more chaos. i'd rather take the medicine now, we with a less than stellar class coming in . make a clean break, and start anew. hopkins leaving is not the end of the world.
i would rather begin a new era than continue with a program that imho is trending down.take our lumps now. it is time for a transfusion in the program. boeheim has been the foundation and the face of syracuse.no one can say he has not been the biggest asset to the university and the city for which we are all thankful.

 

[RF2044]

having slept on all this. my responses have been schizophrenic at best. i conclude (to satisfy myself) that wildhack acted to quickly. much like my reactions. i think we should have stuck to the timeline, done a coaching search (which we probably have a short list),and had jb retire as planned. by extending him i think we have created more chaos. i'd rather take the medicine now, we with a less than stellar class coming in . make a clean break, and start anew. hopkins leaving is not the end of the world.
i would rather begin a new era than continue with a program that imho is trending down.take our lumps now. it is time for a transfusion in the program. boeheim has been the foundation and the face of syracuse.no one can say he has not been the biggest asset to the university and the city for which we are all thankful.

Agree across the board.

Edit--and after reading Dasher's information presented in the other thread, it sounds as though we can put a fork in the notion that JB manipulated this to occur.

 

[pfister1]

Agree across the board.

Edit--and after reading Dasher's information presented in the other thread, it sounds as though we can put a fork in the notion that JB manipulated this to occur.

I see two alternative possibilities; sticking publicly to the original timeline was not one of them.

1. Accelerate JB's retirement to immediate, do a search and hire the new coach now. There are a lot of circumstances that make this a reasonable course.
-Our '17 recruiting class is not stellar, so the coaching change doesn't put a huge class in jeopardy
-Next year's class hasn't been lined up so that isn't put at risk by a coaching change either.
-It seems to me that we are at risk for a large decline at present based on personnel with or without JB, so you could argue now is a good time to bite the bullet, assume the risk that comes with any change and make the break.

2. Extend JB as a way to give the perception of continuity and then proceed quietly to go out and find a replacement to replace JB after next year. Whether this is what is happening really depends on JB's role in all of this. If he is "foregoing his retirement to save the program" this is a real possibility. If he sees this as his opportunity to keep doing what he loves when he wasn't really ready to retire, then this isn't a possiblity.

What we could not do, is do nothing. If you think recruiting has been bad for 2017 and 2018 what would it be like with everyone having the full knowledge that JB is retiring and no idea who the replacement would be. Who would even lead the recruiting? A lame duck JB. Lame duck assistants? What would Autry and GMAC's incentive be to have their foot on the gas recruiting instead of having their foot on the accelerator looking for their next opportunity?

 

[RF2044]

I see two alternative possibilities; sticking publicly to the original timeline was not one of them.

1. Accelerate JB's retirement to immediate, do a search and hire the new coach now. There are a lot of circumstances that make this a reasonable course.
-Our '17 recruiting class is not stellar, so the coaching change doesn't put a huge class in jeopardy
-Next year's class hasn't been lined up so that isn't put at risk by a coaching change either.
-It seems to me that we are at risk for a large decline at present based on personnel with or without JB, so you could argue now is a good time to bite the bullet, assume the risk that comes with any change and make the break.

2. Extend JB as a way to give the perception of continuity and then proceed quietly to go out and find a replacement to replace JB after next year. Whether this is what is happening really depends on JB's role in all of this. If he is "foregoing his retirement to save the program" this is a real possibility. If he sees this as his opportunity to keep doing what he loves when he wasn't really ready to retire, then this isn't a possiblity.

What we could not do, is do nothing. If you think recruiting has been bad for 2017 and 2018 what would it be like with everyone having the full knowledge that JB is retiring and no idea who the replacement would be. Who would even lead the recruiting? A lame duck JB. Lame duck assistants? What would Autry and GMAC's incentive be to have their foot on the gas recruiting instead of having their foot on the accelerator looking for their next opportunity?

I hope it is #2. I think it could be -- would make a lot of sense, you can't have a lame duck coach, and it would stick to the original timeline.

Nothing would surprise me at this point, however.

 

[Trueblue25]

I wouldn't say he manipulated this. I think this is what he wanted to happen, he wanted to continue coaching because he's able to. But wouldn't say he purposely caused these dominos to fall in the way which they did

 

[IthacaMatt]

I wouldn't say he manipulated this. I think this is what he wanted to happen, he wanted to continue coaching because he's able to. But wouldn't say he purposely caused these dominos to fall in the way which they did

All he had to do was let people know he didn't want to leave after next year - which is what the original Thamel article accomplished.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Why does all this have to be a conspiracy?!?! Why can't it be just as Wildhack and JB said in the presser. The plan was moving along for Hopkins to replace JB. Plans changed when Hop got an offer he couldn't refuse.

I for one am glad for an AD that didn't drag his feet, but made a quick decision for the good of the program. I actually think the program has a bit better stability now than before. People think that JB is not being truthful, can someone please tell me when it has ever been proven that has lied? He is one of the most direct coaches out there...so why all of sudden is this a conspiracy by him to stay?!?! I was shocked when I voted and it showed that small majority think he manipulated this. We all know how loyal he is, if that is the case then why would he undermine Hop? Just doesn't make sense.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Agree across the board.

Edit--and after reading Dasher's information presented in the other thread, it sounds as though we can put a fork in the notion that JB manipulated this to occur.

What thread? What info? There are way too many for me to search...Thank you for your help.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Something happened that caused Hopkins to consider outside options, one came available during that consideration, and he went for it.

Not sure if we ever actually learn the truth though.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Something happened that caused Hopkins to consider outside options, one came available during that consideration, and he went for it.

Not sure if we ever actually learn the truth though.

I think people want it to be more complicated than it is. I think it was just simply that Hop and his parents are from the West Coast. Hop's parent are still there and reportedly not doing well. Moving to the WC makes it easier to support them. Plus he is getting a P5 program that has some good potential. Not to mention, a six year contract, making more than he was...With all that, I am not surprised at all he left...

 

[CusefanATL]

Can't I pick both? Why does it have to be one or the other?

we live in a binary world bro

 

[CusefanATL]

What thread? What info? There are way too many for me to search...Thank you for your help.

Yeah Can we get this dasher and iommi info a little more public? Is it on the payside? there are a lot of threads to dig throuh.

 

[justgold315]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Something happened that caused Hopkins to consider outside options, one came available during that consideration, and he went for it.

Not sure if we ever actually learn the truth though.

This x 100. There is no reason (currently stated) for Hopkins to wait the year before he is going to finally take the reigns to his beloved alma matter to go to a different, sub-par school. Something must have happened for Hopkins to jump ship. I am sure he could have received and taken UW-caliber school offers within the last 10 years if he put it out there that he was seriously looking. I am hoping the truth is someday revealed. Hopefully it is not more sanctions or anything serious

 

[AirForceOrange]

He wants his Dad to see him become a head coach...

(On nearly getting the USC job in 2013) “For that was home. Having a chance to go home and my mom and dad being there and having an opportunity of my father seeing me become a head coach – I think that’s important to me too. I thought I was the right guy. Any time you lose. I really believe things happen for a reason. I remember getting the call. And they said … I thought it was a done (deal). And I get the call saying I didn’t get it. And I was almost shocked.”

(On if he’d ever leave Syracuse) “I never want to say never, but it would have to be a really special situation with some with some pretty special people because I always want to grow and I want to keep getting better. We were talking about earlier, I worked for some great coaches. I learned from the best. I’ve been to the best colleges. I’ve learned from the greatest to ever do it and now the only thing I haven’t done is sit up there call the timeout.”

That right there should be all the explanation that is need on what happened this weekend...

 

[AirForceOrange]

I believe that if UW never fired their coach, Hop would be on the Orange sidelines next year ready to take over...

 

[PhatOrange]

By extending him I see less chaos. Is there still some uncertainty?, of course there because he’ll eventually retire but nobody knows when. This eliminates next year’s lame duck status. Next year’s recruiting would be a disaster because every kid knows he’s gone but they don’t know who the next coach is going to be.

Now when JB announces he’s done, we’ll move quickly. Kids who are already signed will be signed. They’ll be free to leave or not.

 

[br801]

Why does all this have to be a conspiracy?!?! Why can't it be just as Wildhack and JB said in the presser. The plan was moving along for Hopkins to replace JB. Plans changed when Hop got an offer he couldn't refuse.

I for one am glad for an AD that didn't drag his feet, but made a quick decision for the good of the program. I actually think the program has a bit better stability now than before. People think that JB is not being truthful, can someone please tell me when it has ever been proven that has lied? He is one of the most direct coaches out there...so why all of sudden is this a conspiracy by him to stay?!?! I was shocked when I voted and it showed that small majority think he manipulated this. We all know how loyal he is, if that is the case then why would he undermine Hop? Just doesn't make sense.

If he "manipulated" it at all, it was only in the sense that Hop (who likely knows him as well as almost anyone) felt JB wasn't quite happy having to bow out after one more year, was therefore open to entertaining other opportunities, and had a tremendous one present itself.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yeah Can we get this dasher and iommi info a little more public? Is it on the payside? there are a lot of threads to dig throuh.

So how about that Fox story?

Post #15.

 

[AirForceOrange]

By extending him I see less chaos. Is there still some uncertainty?, of course there because he’ll eventually retire but nobody knows when. This eliminates next year’s lame duck status. Next year’s recruiting would be a disaster because every kid knows he’s gone but they don’t know who the next coach is going to be.

Now when JB announces he’s done, we’ll move quickly. Kids who are already signed will be signed. They’ll be free to leave or not.

Exactly...and Wildhack just proved that he will not drag his feet in making a decision...I think that one of the best things we found out this past weekend. We have an AD who is willing to make an quick, but informed, decision and press to get his decision his approved. When program delay and delay is when uncertainty occurs and recruiting is affected. I think this quick decision will help future recruiting as long as Wildhack stays as AD. We should all be happy that it appears we have an AD who knows what to do and doesn't drag his feet to get it done...I think SU athletics may be gearing up for a golden era...football is headed on the right track, basketball has continuity, etc. But all some people want to do is look for conspiracies and the negative...

 

[AirForceOrange]

So how about that Fox story?

Post #15.

Thanks OX...

 

[dasher]

having slept on all this. my responses have been schizophrenic at best. i conclude (to satisfy myself) that wildhack acted to quickly. much like my reactions. i think we should have stuck to the timeline, done a coaching search (which we probably have a short list),and had jb retire as planned. by extending him i think we have created more chaos. i'd rather take the medicine now, we with a less than stellar class coming in . make a clean break, and start anew. hopkins leaving is not the end of the world.
i would rather begin a new era than continue with a program that imho is trending down.take our lumps now. it is time for a transfusion in the program. boeheim has been the foundation and the face of syracuse.no one can say he has not been the biggest asset to the university and the city for which we are all thankful.

To that would doom us to getting no recruits in 2018. No kid is going to go to a school without knowing who the coach is going to be.

 

[721Comstock]

If he "manipulated" it at all, it was only in the sense that Hop (who likely knows him as well as almost anyone) felt JB wasn't quite happy having to bow out after one more year, was therefore open to entertaining other opportunities, and had a tremendous one present itself.

Yeah, pretty much this.

The poll answer is - BOTH.

JB didn't really want to retire - but he would have, since it was promised to Hop.
Hop really didn't want to "force" out JB to get the job, and once the U-Dub position opened up, he was all over it.

 

[supp]

If he "manipulated" it at all, it was only in the sense that Hop (who likely knows him as well as almost anyone) felt JB wasn't quite happy having to bow out after one more year, was therefore open to entertaining other opportunities, and had a tremendous one present itself.

I agree. There was evidence (on this board and in the papers) that Boeheim was pushing back against the retirement deadline. Talk of retirement had been circulating ever since Hopkins got that CIW deal years earlier. That was supposed to keep him here but not forever in an assistant coach role. Clearly he was tired of being the coach in waiting and when talk of Boeheim reconsidering next year as his last time around popped up again in the middle of this season, I think Hopkins started to put feelers out. Then the UW opportunity came about and with the talent on board and the contract on offer, I totally understand why he would jump on it.

It also avoids a messy situation next year where he might feel like he was pushing out the guy that gave him his start and groomed him to be a head coach. That tweet on Sunday about Hopkins "doing right by his mentor" would seem to back that up. Both Hopkins and Boeheim probably breathed a sign of relief when the UW job came up. Boeheim's "manipulation" was his refusal to let go of the program he built. Guys like Paterno and Bowden on the football side didn't fare well holding on for too long. We'll see if it works out better for us.