Poll - Did JB Manipulate This or Did He Just Save Us?

[AirForceOrange]

To that would doom us to getting no recruits in 2018. No kid is going to go to a school without knowing who the coach is going to be.

I believe that JB and whomever the AD it at the time he retires (hopefully Wildhack) will have a good plan for any transition. It would not surprise me if sometime during a season, or before it, JB tells Hack he is done and they quietly put out feelers for a replacement. The season ends, JB announces retirement, then very shortly after a replacement is hired...would be shocked if it became a long drawn out affair...JB doesn't seem to be the type not to plan and especially not someone who wants to leave something he had spent a majority of life his building to leave it in disarray...

 

[PhatOrange]

All I know is that I’m happy we’ll have a national coaching search. Doesn’t mean it won’t be a bad hire and the program will tank anyway but at least it gives us options to go get a proven HC.

 

[supp]

JB doesn't seem to be the type not to plan and especially not someone who wants to leave something he had spent a majority of life his building to leave it in disarray...

By the same token, one could say that this was the whole point behind having a coach in waiting. There's always going to be disruption when you move from one coach to another. Having Hopkins around was supposed to minimize the disruption.

As much as I'd like to buy into the idea that Boeheim will give Wildhack lots of advanced warning for his retirement, it goes against everything he's said in the past about how he decides whether he's coming back or not for another year. I think the only way we have lots of advanced warning is if Boeheim is eventually pushed out for performance, health issues, etc.

 

[SBU72]

I have read a lot of the posts. Listen to radio commentators, read newspaper articles and blogs. I was wondering. Why do man y say "we all know JB didn't want to retire 2018". Why do we all know that? Was it because that is what they ("news people" were saying/guessing/wishing? Can anybody give me a quote from JB that says that he did not want to (or at least intent to) retire after 2017-18 season? How about a named source that said JB told him that. unnamed source close to JB? Dasher at least gives that on the other side of the story, that Hop did this on his own and not for the reasons being attributed to him. And Dasher has complete confidence in it. Of course that doesn't count the 45 minutes of JB saying he had not intention of coaching past 17-18. Or the AD sitting right next to him not disagreeing with that. Or any of the other times during press conferences that he said the same. So call me naïve. Call me stupid. But I believe JB. I want to believe Dashers story. Now that does not mean that I think that the extension is the best course of action. Maybe that should be another poll.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I have read a lot of the posts. Listen to radio commentators, read newspaper articles and blogs. I was wondering. Why do man y say "we all know JB didn't want to retire 2018". Why do we all know that? Was it because that is what they ("news people" were saying/guessing/wishing? Can anybody give me a quote from JB that says that he did not want to (or at least intent to) retire after 2017-18 season? How about a named source that said JB told him that. unnamed source close to JB? Dasher at least gives that on the other side of the story, that Hop did this on his own and not for the reasons being attributed to him. And Dasher has complete confidence in it. Of course that doesn't count the 45 minutes of JB saying he had not intention of coaching past 17-18. Or the AD sitting right next to him not disagreeing with that. Or any of the other times during press conferences that he said the same. So call me naïve. Call me stupid. But I believe JB. I want to believe Dashers story. Now that does not mean that I think that the extension is the best course of action. Maybe that should be another poll.

Agree completely!! Only time will tell if the extension was the best course of action...however I am glad the AD looked at what he thought was best for the program at this time, made the decision, got the approval and then made it legal/official in a very short amount of time. The last couple/few years have been "down years", record-wise, for SU...but nearly all programs go through that...There isn't a program out there that hasn't had at least one or two "down years ". Look at Mich State this year...yes they made it to the tourney, but record-wise it was not a good year for them. UK, UNC, even dook, have all had "down years". It is all relative to the program. I think it shows how great a program we have when we say the last few years have been "down years". We still had winning records and made the F4 twice. Look at some of our former Big East Foes...Gtown (they still suck),, St Johns, etc...they have all been relegated to mediocrity.

 

[tipphill]

To that would doom us to getting no recruits in 2018. No kid is going to go to a school without knowing who the coach is going to be.

i guess you r assuming, and maybe rightly so, that a new hire would be a long drawn out affair. i am hoping that the wheels are in motion as we speak to get a new coach.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I have read a lot of the posts. Listen to radio commentators, read newspaper articles and blogs. I was wondering. Why do man y say "we all know JB didn't want to retire 2018". Why do we all know that? Was it because that is what they ("news people" were saying/guessing/wishing? Can anybody give me a quote from JB that says that he did not want to (or at least intent to) retire after 2017-18 season? How about a named source that said JB told him that. unnamed source close to JB? Dasher at least gives that on the other side of the story, that Hop did this on his own and not for the reasons being attributed to him. And Dasher has complete confidence in it. Of course that doesn't count the 45 minutes of JB saying he had not intention of coaching past 17-18. Or the AD sitting right next to him not disagreeing with that. Or any of the other times during press conferences that he said the same. So call me naïve. Call me stupid. But I believe JB. I want to believe Dashers story. Now that does not mean that I think that the extension is the best course of action. Maybe that should be another poll.

I believe there was a quoted source earlier in the year saying the JB approached the AD to see about pushing back the retirement timeline and that he was flatly rejected. The word was that Juli also made the same request.

 

[SBU72]

I believe there was a quoted source earlier in the year saying the JB approached the AD to see about pushing back the retirement timeline and that he was flatly rejected. The word was that Juli also made the same request.

Ok. I didn't see that. Interesting. Anybody know where that is? As for "word was that Juli also made the same request", that is below unnamed sources. Why should I believe that?

 

[HoustonCuse]

having slept on all this. my responses have been schizophrenic at best. i conclude (to satisfy myself) that wildhack acted to quickly. much like my reactions. i think we should have stuck to the timeline, done a coaching search (which we probably have a short list),and had jb retire as planned. by extending him i think we have created more chaos. i'd rather take the medicine now, we with a less than stellar class coming in . make a clean break, and start anew. hopkins leaving is not the end of the world.
i would rather begin a new era than continue with a program that imho is trending down.take our lumps now. it is time for a transfusion in the program. boeheim has been the foundation and the face of syracuse.no one can say he has not been the biggest asset to the university and the city for which we are all thankful.

The flaw in this is that it is not following the plan. It would mean firing Boeheim this year. Or, for those triggered by that word, it would be asking him to retire a year early. Ask yourself how that would look. HCIW bails and HOF HC in place, dumps the program and leaves a year early.

This place would've been all

 

[FrancoPizza]

I believe there was a quoted source earlier in the year saying the JB approached the AD to see about pushing back the retirement timeline and that he was flatly rejected. The word was that Juli also made the same request.

That alone pretty much says JB's motive was purely self-driven. At what point do you just tell Hop, "son, I love you, but you'll only be getting this gig over my dead body."

 

[tipphill]

The flaw in this is that it is not following the plan. It would mean firing Boeheim this year. Or, for those triggered by that word, it would be asking him to retire a year early. Ask yourself how that would look. HCIW bails and HOF HC in place, dumps the program and leaves a year early.

This place would've been all

ask yourself how do we look now?? and everyone would realize that jb would not be fired and jb his retirement would be recognized as part of a bigger plan done with his blessing.

 

[orangenirvana]

Boeheim unintentionally "forced" Hopkins out by making it very obvious that he does not want to stop coaching.

Hop didn't want to take the job from his mentor and father-figure when he wasn't truly ready to hand it over. Hop has always been looking for a good HC position and knew all along he could be picky. If this Washington offer hadn't come along Hop would have reluctantly accepted the SU position.

having slept on all this. my responses have been schizophrenic at best. i conclude (to satisfy myself) that wildhack acted to quickly. much like my reactions. i think we should have stuck to the timeline, done a coaching search (which we probably have a short list),and had jb retire as planned. by extending him i think we have created more chaos. i'd rather take the medicine now, we with a less than stellar class coming in . make a clean break, and start anew. hopkins leaving is not the end of the world.
i would rather begin a new era than continue with a program that imho is trending down.take our lumps now. it is time for a transfusion in the program. boeheim has been the foundation and the face of syracuse.no one can say he has not been the biggest asset to the university and the city for which we are all thankful.

How do you hire a coach who won't take over as the head coach until 2018-19?

Has that ever happened? Would the new coach come in and sit next to JB for the entire season? Would he coach elsewhere for one more year then take over after the season?

Seems awkward.

 

[Madbiker]

Why does all this have to be a conspiracy?!?! Why can't it be just as Wildhack and JB said in the presser. The plan was moving along for Hopkins to replace JB. Plans changed when Hop got an offer he couldn't refuse.

I for one am glad for an AD that didn't drag his feet, but made a quick decision for the good of the program. I actually think the program has a bit better stability now than before. People think that JB is not being truthful, can someone please tell me when it has ever been proven that has lied? He is one of the most direct coaches out there...so why all of sudden is this a conspiracy by him to stay?!?! I was shocked when I voted and it showed that small majority think he manipulated this. We all know how loyal he is, if that is the case then why would he undermine Hop? Just doesn't make sense.

It's unlikely UW made the first move to contact Hopkins as the HC designate whose waited a long time for that job and is now just 12 months away. Far more likely that Hop had his agent contact UW to express interest & availability. And that wouldn't have happened unless there was a strong motivating reason for Hop to want out. He knew JB did not want to retire. He probably had a feeling that Wildhack was a lukewarm participant in the succession plan only because he had to be. I don't think anyone told Hop anything directly...he just read the tea leaves and decided to look for an out.

 

[AirForceOrange]

It's unlikely UW made the first move to contact Hopkins as the HC designate whose waited a long time for that job and is now just 12 months away. Far more likely that Hop had his agent contact UW to express interest & availability. And that wouldn't have happened unless there was a strong motivating reason for Hop to want out. He knew JB did not want to retire. He probably had a feeling that Wildhack was a lukewarm participant in the succession plan only because he had to be. I don't think anyone told Hop anything directly...he just read the tea leaves and decided to look for an out.

That makes no sense...Hop has been contacted numerous times from schools interested in hiring him...why would UW be any different? That is all conjecture and guessing on your part and everyone else...

I am going by facts and what has been said/stated by all those involved...JB, Hop, Hack, etc. Not relying on 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. party comments on a message board...until someone has un-refutable proof that JB manipulated this, I am going to stick with the HoF coach of 40+ years, who has, to my knowledge, never publicly lied...

 

[TinyManInside]

I believe that if UW never fired their coach, Hop would be on the Orange sidelines next year ready to take over...

doubtful

 

[AirForceOrange]

doubtful

Why? What facts do you have?

 

[Madbiker]

That makes no sense...Hop has been contacted numerous times from schools interested in hiring him...why would UW be any different? That is all conjecture and guessing on your part and everyone else...

I am going by facts and what has been said/stated by all those involved...JB, Hop, Hack, etc. Not relying on 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. party comments on a message board...until someone has un-refutable proof that JB manipulated this, I am going to stick with the HoF coach of 40+ years, who has, to my knowledge, never publicly lied...

The formal announcement 2 years ago that Hopkins was the HC designate created a very different situation. And I never said or implied that JB lied about anything. He has been very transparent about his desire to coach.

 

[AirForceOrange]

The formal announcement 2 years ago that Hopkins was the HC designate created a very different situation. And I never said or implied that JB lied about anything. He has been very transparent about his desire to coach.

How so?

 

[supp]

That makes no sense...Hop has been contacted numerous times from schools interested in hiring him...why would UW be any different? That is all conjecture and guessing on your part and everyone else...

I am going by facts and what has been said/stated by all those involved...JB, Hop, Hack, etc. Not relying on 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. party comments on a message board...until someone has un-refutable proof that JB manipulated this, I am going to stick with the HoF coach of 40+ years, who has, to my knowledge, never publicly lied...

You're silly. Why leave with 12 months to go before getting the dream job that you've been waiting for for 10-plus years if everything was set in stone? You want to put the burden of proof on those who disagree with you as if your position lacks any complications and so everything else must be a "conspiracy."

 

[AirForceOrange]

You're silly. Why leave with 12 months to go before getting the dream job that you've been waiting for for 10-plus years if everything was set in stone? You want to put the burden of proof on those who disagree with you as if your position lacks any complications and so everything else must be a "conspiracy."

It's silly to go with facts? You must be someone who looks forward to release of the next "fake" news story...

I think the right situation occurred for him AND his family. West Coast where his parents live...closer to his parents allows his kids to spend time with their grandparents, allow his dad to see him be a head coach in person (not on TV) and allows him to be closer to his parents to assist them as needed...Not to mention the fact that he is coaching a P5 team with a good base to work with...finally an increase in salary. I know that all makes sense and is boring, so lets continue with the manipulation theory...carry on and don't forget to put on your orange colored tin hat...

 

[Brooky03]

People are acting like Hop hasn't actively looked for HC jobs in the past few years when that's exactly what he did. Washington happened to be the school that finally gave him a good offer.

Good career move by Hop.

 

[supp]

It's silly to go with facts? You must be someone who looks forward to release of the next "fake" news story...

I think the right situation occurred for him AND his family. West Coast where his parents live...closer to his parents allows his kids to spend time with their grandparents, allow his dad to see him be a head coach in person (not on TV) and allows him to be closer to his parents to assist them as needed...Not to mention the fact that he is coaching a P5 team with a good base to work with...finally an increase in salary. I know that all makes sense and is boring, so lets continue with the manipulation theory...carry on and don't forget to put on your orange colored tin hat...

You're hopeless. Your position also involves avoiding lots of facts. Most people, including myself, have concluded that both of the poll options are likely in play. Why you believe Boeheim had nothing to do with this is based on a press conference where little else could be said without inviting more trouble.

 

[AirForceOrange]

You're hopeless. Your position also involves avoiding lots of facts. Most people, including myself, have concluded that both of the poll options are likely in play. Why you believe Boeheim had nothing to do with this is based on a press conference where little else could be said without inviting more trouble.

What facts do you have to support your position? Prove me wrong rather than calling me names or saying I am hopeless...it just makes you and your comments not credible. I challenge you to prove your position with facts and not 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. party info from posts on a message board. I am basing my comments off what was said directly by two people who were directly part of the decisions...there is no other credible evidence that they are wrong, lying, spinning the truth, etc. Two people who do not have credibility issues...your turn...

 

[supp]

What facts do you have to support your position? Prove me wrong rather than calling me names or saying I am hopeless...it just makes you and your comments not credible. I challenge you to prove your position with facts and not 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. party info from posts on a message board. I am basing my comments off what was said directly by two people who were directly part of the decisions...there is no other credible evidence that they are wrong, lying, spinning the truth, etc. Two people who do not have credibility issues...your turn...

In that same press conference, didn't they announce a contract extension? You want to chalk that up to "damage control" but nothing else that was said?

 

[AirForceOrange]

In that same press conference, didn't they announce a contract extension? You want to chalk that up to "damage control" but nothing else that was said?

Did you watch the whole presser? JB stated that he has never released the conditions of his contracts and he is not going to start now. Wildhack stated that contracts are between the coaches and the university. Also, SU is private not a state school, so not required to release details of contract. Finally, if he wasn't going to retire after next year, why would an extension be needed? His contract was set to expire corresponding with his planned retirement.

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