POLL: Schedule Yukon Again?

[nzm136]

I think you're going to find that you're mistaken. You can't run big deficits forever. Eventually, reality is going to catch up with them and they won't have the resources to compete, in terms of recruiting budgets, coaches' salaries and facilities. The tiny budget of the Big East is going to doom them to second tier status. One weekend per year at the Garden won't change that.

Just to be clear, in the world of northeast recruiting basketball >>>>> football.

In the world of sports, the fewer people on the floor/field at a time the increased chance of an upset. Upsets are far more likely to happen in basketball than football.

In the world of media deals, the BE makes as much (if not more than) the ACC. We make more overall, but football is driving a lot of that bus.

In the world of competitiveness, the BE is clearly formidable enough to win championships.

In UConn’s little world, their name in basketball >>>>>>>>>>>> their name in football.

So what again does playing a neutral site game against UConn in Yankee Stadium (or a home game in NYC) have to do with UConn’s competitiveness in basketball? And/or what does occasionally losing to them in basketball in MSG have to do with the likelihood of losing to them in football?

 

[sufandu]

Not for fear of losing, per se. It's fear of helping them. That's what we don't need to do.

No, some people said losing. I was not responding to the people that said helping. I understand that argument even if I don't agree with it.

 

[jgeorge322]

only if before the game, edsall and dino meet at midfield, edsall has to bend the knee and kiss the ring.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Just to be clear, in the world of northeast recruiting basketball >>>>> football.

In the world of sports, the fewer people on the floor/field at a time the increased chance of an upset. Upsets are far more likely to happen in basketball than football.

In the world of media deals, the BE makes as much (if not more than) the ACC. We make more overall, but football is driving a lot of that bus.

In the world of competitiveness, the BE is clearly formidable enough to win championships.

In UConn’s little world, their name in basketball >>>>>>>>>>>> their name in football.

So what again does playing a neutral site game against UConn in Yankee Stadium (or a home game in NYC) have to do with UConn’s competitiveness in basketball? And/or what does occasionally losing to them in basketball in MSG have to do with the likelihood of losing to them in football?

Perhaps you should just go read The Boneyard for an hour or so. But read the football side. That's where the realists are. Then you'll understand what lies ahead for them. Their hoops will eventually be affected.

 

[nzm136]

Perhaps you should just go read The Boneyard for an hour or so. But read the football side. That's where the realists are. Then you'll understand what lies ahead for them. Their hoops will eventually be affected.

Kansas says “hi,” as does a slew of great basketball schools who are awful at football.

Basketball and football are two very different sports. Their basketball program isn’t in its best spot, but the BIG EAST isn’t some backwater conference. It’s very much a power conference, and, whether you like it or not, it’s funded like one. Football is ~80% of a TV contract. Multiple their contract by 5x, and that’s what they’d get paid if they had a football wing as strong as their non-football sports (basketball).

Add in the UConn is in the basketball equivalent to what Alabama is for football.

They aren’t going away unless they continue to burn bridges and make stupid coaching hires. But neither of those have anything to do with either their conference, or whether we play them in football.

So rather than make a vague statement about the virtues of a site that’s legendarily out of touch (“UConn to the B1G”) and more manic than this one, perhaps you should try articulating a coherent argument.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Kansas says “hi,” as does a slew of great basketball schools who are awful at football.

Basketball and football are two very different sports.
Add in the UConn is in the basketball equivalent to what Alabama is for football.

So rather than make a vague statement about the virtues of a site that’s legendarily out of touch (“UConn to the B1G”) and more manic than this one, perhaps you should try articulating a coherent argument.

Here's a good place to start. Article from a New London, CT newspaper: "UConn Football Set Up To Fail"

UConn football set up to fail by people who need to support it the most

Here is one fan's take on how the move to the Big East is the death knell of the football program:

Random Thoughts about the last 24 hours...

And to tie it all together with the future of the hoops program, this is a good thread to read, and a great first post to kick it off:

The View From Section 241 -- the NBE

So, to sum up, UConn isn't going to have the revenue to continue to compete long term at an elite level. Lots of schools have won championships and then been left behind.

Just look at your new home in the Big East - it's full of "formerly great" teams: Georgetown, St. John's, DePaul (Final Four with Mark Aguirre, Terry Cummings and Clyde Bradshaw in 1980), Butler (Final Fours with Brendan Hayward and Shelvin Mack).

I don't see any of them getting closer to another Final Four. I see their chances at another Final Four for any of them slowly slipping away.

Short term, this will help with their recruiting for hoops, but the loss of money and the outstanding bills ($10M to Kevin Ollie, $14M exit fee to AAC, loss of AAC TV revenue and conference shares from NCAA tournament). Now they think they're going to sign a great new deal to get their football on SNY?

Do you realize that Notre Dame gets $15M a year for the football contract with NBC? And they made $5.8M from the ACC. They make less money right now from TV than any of the P5 conferences - and that's NOTRE DAME !!! A team with a national following (just like UConn ?? /s/ ) But Notre Dame makes mad cash from merchandise sales, so that helps prop them up financially.

But some people say that NBC may not even renew the contract. Some people think that playing a national schedule and the demands of the TV contract require ND to play too tough a schedule to have sustained success in football, and that perhaps this should be the last contract with NBC, and they should join the ACC full time.

Notre Dame Football: Current NBC contract should be the last one

In the Big East, the total payout is around $6M a year. Unless youConn completely drop football, that's not enough money to keep your athletic department going. How many programs are you going to have to drop? What will you do about your current $40M deficit and all the money you owe Kevin Ollie and the AAC?

The lost money is going to ruin UConn basketball in the long run.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Wow, I'm really surprised by anyone that wants to avoid them for fear of losing. You must have PTSD from the GRob Big East days. If you can entertain the idea that we would lose to them, ban yourself from any Clemson game discussions. I look at it from the opposite end. I say we crush UConn from time to time to gibe us an easy game and solidify their rightful place in suckitude.

Avoid them because they are useless.

Rutgers, as a b1g school, is useful.

Storz is not.

If they’re d1aa, then they’d at least be a useful useless program for Syracuse.

 

[sufandu]

Avoid them because they are useless.

Rutgers, as a b1g school, is useful.

Storz is not.

If they’re d1aa, then they’d at least be a useful useless program for Syracuse.

They're useful for an easy W, beyond that you're right. Sometimes though, an easy W is all you're looking for.

 

[SU68]

Kansas says “hi,” as does a slew of great basketball schools who are awful at football.

Basketball and football are two very different sports. Their basketball program isn’t in its best spot, but the BIG EAST isn’t some backwater conference. It’s very much a power conference, and, whether you like it or not, it’s funded like one. Football is ~80% of a TV contract. Multiple their contract by 5x, and that’s what they’d get paid if they had a football wing as strong as their non-football sports (basketball).

Add in the UConn is in the basketball equivalent to what Alabama is for football.

They aren’t going away unless they continue to burn bridges and make stupid coaching hires. But neither of those have anything to do with either their conference, or whether we play them in football.

So rather than make a vague statement about the virtues of a site that’s legendarily out of touch (“UConn to the B1G”) and more manic than this one, perhaps you should try articulating a coherent argument.

I'll agree with you if you meant the women's team. Calhoun is gone and the men's team isn't what it used to be. I hope Syracuse doesn't go through that when JB retires.

 

[KaiserUEO]

They're useful for an easy W, beyond that you're right. Sometimes though, an easy W is all you're looking for.

Plenty of easy and useful W’s out there, there’s just no reason to schedule a school which adds nothing of value to the Orange program, but we add value to them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They're useful for an easy W, beyond that you're right. Sometimes though, an easy W is all you're looking for.

No! The "Risk / Reward" is not worth it.

 

[nzm136]

Here's a good place to start. Article from a New London, CT newspaper: "UConn Football Set Up To Fail"

UConn football set up to fail by people who need to support it the most

Here is one fan's take on how the move to the Big East is the death knell of the football program:

Random Thoughts about the last 24 hours...

And to tie it all together with the future of the hoops program, this is a good thread to read, and a great first post to kick it off:

The View From Section 241 -- the NBE

So, to sum up, UConn isn't going to have the revenue to continue to compete long term at an elite level. Lots of schools have won championships and then been left behind.

Just look at your new home in the Big East - it's full of "formerly great" teams: Georgetown, St. John's, DePaul (Final Four with Mark Aguirre, Terry Cummings and Clyde Bradshaw in 1980), Butler (Final Fours with Brendan Hayward and Shelvin Mack).

I don't see any of them getting closer to another Final Four. I see their chances at another Final Four for any of them slowly slipping away.

Short term, this will help with their recruiting for hoops, but the loss of money and the outstanding bills ($10M to Kevin Ollie, $14M exit fee to AAC, loss of AAC TV revenue and conference shares from NCAA tournament). Now they think they're going to sign a great new deal to get their football on SNY?

Do you realize that Notre Dame gets $15M a year for the football contract with NBC? And they made $5.8M from the ACC. They make less money right now from TV than any of the P5 conferences - and that's NOTRE DAME !!! A team with a national following (just like UConn ?? /s/ ) But Notre Dame makes mad cash from merchandise sales, so that helps prop them up financially.

But some people say that NBC may not even renew the contract. Some people think that playing a national schedule and the demands of the TV contract require ND to play too tough a schedule to have sustained success in football, and that perhaps this should be the last contract with NBC, and they should join the ACC full time.

Notre Dame Football: Current NBC contract should be the last one

In the Big East, the total payout is around $6M a year. Unless youConn completely drop football, that's not enough money to keep your athletic department going. How many programs are you going to have to drop? What will you do about your current $40M deficit and all the money you owe Kevin Ollie and the AAC?

The lost money is going to ruin UConn basketball in the long run.

You do realize that football and basketball are two different things, right?

What in your above ramblings links losing to UConn in MSG (last year? ...the years blur) to potentially losing to them in football in the future?

While we’re at it, I fail to see what ND’s TV deal has to do with anything material and UConn-related.

And collegiate athletics are cyclical. Nova is doing better now than they did in the BIG EAST (versions 1, 2, or 3). There are ups and downs. Pretending like the BIG EAST is down for the count is stupid.

But to steer the conversation back to our friends in CT, UConn’s finances are a mess. Nobody is denying that. However, what on God’s green Earth makes you think they’re going to tank the one thing making them money? They can’t afford to screw up basketball - almost literally. But regardless and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, what does their basketball team’s success (or lack thereof) have to do with their football team’s inability to be competitive?

Also on that financial note from earlier, what does playing SU intermittently have to do w/ their deficit? I’m not sure how much you think our games are worth, but rest assured that playing us won’t solve their financial woes.

Lastly, to be clear, UConn is bad at football. UConn was bad at football. UConn will always be bad at football. Syracuse had/has/will have no appreciable impact on any of the last 3 statements.

 

[nzm136]

I'll agree with you if you meant the women's team. Calhoun is gone and the men's team isn't what it used to be. I hope Syracuse doesn't go through that when JB retires.

(I mean Geography ... NYC/northeast produces basketball talent like the state of Alabama produces football talent.)

 

[sufandu]

Plenty of easy and useful W’s out there, there’s just no reason to schedule a school which adds nothing of value to the Orange program, but we add value to them.

They'll be too far in the pit to glean any value from a beat down from us. I'm not saying schedule them all of the time, but I'd be fine with an easy W against them now and then. I'd be fine if it was someone else too.

 

[sufandu]

No! The "Risk / Reward" is not worth it.

What risk?

 

[IthacaMatt]

What risk?

Something like this happening:

Middle Tennessee State at Syracuse Box Score, September 9, 2017 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Or this:

Villanova at Syracuse Box Score, August 29, 2014 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Villanova at Syracuse Box Score, August 29, 2014

www.sports-reference.com

Or this:

South Florida at Syracuse Box Score, September 17, 2016 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

South Florida at Syracuse Box Score, September 17, 2016

www.sports-reference.com

Or this:

Rutgers at Syracuse Box Score, October 1, 2011 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Rutgers at Syracuse Box Score, October 1, 2011

www.sports-reference.com

 

[texasorange]

Syracuse just finished a series with the UConn FB program. We don’t need to do another for at least a decade or two. We are committed to our conference schedule. We have limited flexibility with our out of conference schedule. SU fans would prefer a variety of opponents for that scheduling slot. UConn would get boring.

 

[sufandu]

Something like this happening:

Middle Tennessee State at Syracuse Box Score, September 9, 2017 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Or this:

Villanova at Syracuse Box Score, August 29, 2014 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Villanova at Syracuse Box Score, August 29, 2014

www.sports-reference.com

Or this:

South Florida at Syracuse Box Score, September 17, 2016 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

South Florida at Syracuse Box Score, September 17, 2016

www.sports-reference.com

Or this:

Rutgers at Syracuse Box Score, October 1, 2011 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Rutgers at Syracuse Box Score, October 1, 2011

www.sports-reference.com

UConn is worse than all of those and we are nothing like any of those teams that lost to them. If you are really afraid of that happening, our normal opponents must have you crapping your pants every Saturday.

 

[Consigliere]

Going to change my vote. I enjoyed the last trip to Connecticut but now my favorite Italian Restaurant in greater Hartford is closed!

Glastonbury’s Max Amore to close next month

 

[sutomcat]

Going to change my vote. I enjoyed the last trip to Connecticut but now my favorite Italian Restaurant in greater Hartford is closed!

Glastonbury’s Max Amore to close next month

Very disturbing news. Now you might need to do a special side trip to New Haven for a pizza tour instead. I understand that is one thing our friends from the Nutmeg State do very well.

At this point it should be clear that UConn football is not a threat to Syracuse. They aren’t going to get to the point where they can beat us. Those days are over, and with UConn committed to the ZBE, that isn’t going to change.

We shouldn’t be worried about helping them escape death as a program.

We should be looking for what is best for us. If scheduling UConn in a 2 for 1 or a 2 for 0 is possible and turns out to be a better deal for us than say, scheduling Western Michigan in a 2 for 1, I have no problem doing it. Us playing them once in a while isn’t going to have a big impact on their bottom line.

 

[MSOrange]

Something like this happening:

Middle Tennessee State at Syracuse Box Score, September 9, 2017 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Or this:

Villanova at Syracuse Box Score, August 29, 2014 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Villanova at Syracuse Box Score, August 29, 2014

www.sports-reference.com

Or this:

South Florida at Syracuse Box Score, September 17, 2016 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

South Florida at Syracuse Box Score, September 17, 2016

www.sports-reference.com

Or this:

Rutgers at Syracuse Box Score, October 1, 2011 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Rutgers at Syracuse Box Score, October 1, 2011

www.sports-reference.com

None of those are even remotely a good comparison to playing UConn now. MTSU finished 7-6 that year. Villanova and Rutgers were both pre-Dino. That's silly to even think of a Shafer coached team in the same stratosphere as Dino team. South Florida was also good in 2016. UConn won't be seeing a winning record or even approaching one anytime soon in their current situation. We beat UConn 51-21 last year and didn't even play one of our better games imho.

 

[kcsu]

only if before the game, edsall and dino meet at midfield, edsall has to bend the knee and kiss the ring.

I don't want Edsall on his knees within striking distance of anyone let alone Dino.

 

[IthacaMatt]

None of those are even remotely a good comparison to playing UConn now. MTSU finished 7-6 that year. Villanova and Rutgers were both pre-Dino. That's silly to even think of a Shafer coached team in the same stratosphere as Dino team. South Florida was also good in 2016. UConn won't be seeing a winning record or even approaching one anytime soon in their current situation. We beat UConn 51-21 last year and didn't even play one of our better games imho.

They are going to have a very hard time filling out a schedule, especially in November, let alone be competitive. My point is why help them? Why pay them for games? Why give them a chance at a trophy scalp? I just don't see the point. We never were rivals in football. Why give them any lifeline for their athletic department?

 

[MSOrange]

They are going to have a very hard time filling out a schedule, especially in November, let alone be competitive. My point is why help them? Why pay them for games? Why give them a chance at a trophy scalp? I just don't see the point. We never were rivals in football. Why give them any lifeline for their athletic department?

I can definitely see validity in that viewpoint and that's why I could see merit in each of the poll choices. But as far as them being any threat whatsoever to beat us, I don't see that anytime soon.

 

[sutomcat]

They are going to have a very hard time filling out a schedule, especially in November, let alone be competitive. My point is why help them? Why pay them for games? Why give them a chance at a trophy scalp? I just don't see the point. We never were rivals in football. Why give them any lifeline for their athletic department?

Again, they are not a threat to Syracuse. You might as well say, why throw a lifeline to Western Michigan or Ohio, or Rhode Island or Maine. There is no difference. These schools recruit a different level of athlete, have a different level of coaching staff, play against a different level of opponents, etc. They are not a threat. We aren't going to lose to them (though Western Michigan is pretty darned good for a MAC team).

Each year we have to fill out our schedule with 4 OOC games.

When we fill out our OOC schedule, it looks like John Wildhack is trying to book a relatively good P5 opponent, a relatively bad P5 opponent, a MAC type opponent and a FCS level opponent.

For now anyway, UConn is a MAC type opponent. How do we decide which MAC level opponent we should play?

We should target programs at that level that will play us 2 for 1 or just give us a home game. If we have to play a road game, we should target schools in an area we recruit heavily, preferably in an area where Syracuse fans live and is an easy drive from CNY.

UConn isn't going to get 1 million dollars to play us. It is a bus ride for them and a good, not great pay day. I suspect they would rather play a 2 for 1 with us than with East Carolina or Missouri. It makes sense for them. Their fans can drive to CNY easily and we have historically recruited upstate NY hard.

The war is over, at least as far as football is concerned. UConn surrendered. If it makes sense for Syracuse to play them again, if it benefits our program, there is no reason not to do so.

We should look at playing UB and UMass OOC as well, for the same reasons, provided they are willing to do 2 for 1s or buy in games (SU home only). Unfortunately, I don't think UB is willing to do a 2 for 1 with us and would prefer to get 1 million dollars to get pounded by Alabama or Penn State.