Post Brooklyn Beatdown

[Newhouser]

It's interesting for me in that Eddie is much better than I thought he'd be and Carlos is much worse. I guess that is a draw for Red. I like Davis and get his role but have no idea why he brought in Taylor - we need to play Moore regular minutes. Davis will get minutes when Donnie has a Frosh game. Speaking of Donnie I think the board overstated his impact due to the glare of the MCD game and the rankings. The kid from Texas was one spot ahead of him I think and clearly was more ready to carry a team than Donnie has shown thus far.

 

[TheCusian]

I’m so over the “the bar is so low” “we’ve fallen so far” posts … I don’t know what good comes from it. Reality is a good thing. Now we celebrate incremental improvements, hopefully getting better game by game. That’s the path forward for the team *and* healthy fandom IMO

 

[Sbucketball]

It's interesting for me in that Eddie is much better than I thought he'd be and Carlos is much worse. I guess that is a draw for Red. I like Davis and get his role but have no idea why he brought in Taylor - we need to play Moore regular minutes. Davis will get minutes when Donnie has a Frosh game. Speaking of Donnie I think the board overstated his impact due to the glare of the MCD game and the rankings. The kid from Texas was one spot ahead of him I think and clearly was more ready to carry a team than Donnie has shown thus far.

I've been saying this for a year, but Donnie was rated highly on potential and measurables, not because he already put it all together. In the NBA draft, he's the guy scouts get excited about because of potential despite that he's still raw. That translates to an up and down year of college, and then hopefully representing Orange in the NBA over a long and successful career.

 

[Lukeyloo]

So if we don’t pay Lampkin we automatically get Leffew? Is that your point? Because if it is, you’re likely wrong. SEC money is endless. I’m sorry people don’t grasp this at this point.

Didn't we outbid an SEC school for Lampkin when we had to fight to keep him?

 

[Cstate]

It's interesting for me in that Eddie is much better than I thought he'd be and Carlos is much worse. I guess that is a draw for Red. I like Davis and get his role but have no idea why he brought in Taylor - we need to play Moore regular minutes. Davis will get minutes when Donnie has a Frosh game. Speaking of Donnie I think the board overstated his impact due to the glare of the MCD game and the rankings. The kid from Texas was one spot ahead of him I think and clearly was more ready to carry a team than Donnie has shown thus far.

After watching the game against Texas up close you are spot on with this assessment! Lampkin was an absolute difference maker, however we all saw that he is in no condition to play back-to-back nights. Luckily for us that will only come into play months from now at ACC tourney and possibly NCAA’s (every other night). Carlos unfortunately I already addressed in the Texas post-game thread. Davis was really pounding his body against Texas, but again not ready for back-to-back nights. And lastly to your point about the two McD’s players on the court, never once did anyone in the stands say “wow Donnie is a pro!”…..however all night long the crowd (and I sat around 90% Cuse fans) said “Wow! Tre Johnson is a legit pro/lottery pick!” Even though he wasn’t that efficient either of his two games in Brooklyn. You could just tell he was their go-to guy.

 

[djcon57]

And for those of you doubting Jake, you really need to go get help.

Just want to clarify since you chose to take this shot.

I don't "doubt" Jake is getting info and I don't think Jake is blindly posting everything he hears (not to mention, I'm not saying Jake is a bad guy and his sources are obviously legit), but to blindly accept everything he posts and not understand his sources might have an agenda behind their opinion/"facts"...well it's just ignorant.

Here's a perfect example:

"Centers are the more expensive product in NIL. I actually think we offered the same relative value (ballpark). Got one, didn’t get the other."

Here's a SOURCED article in the NY Times that specifically states otherwise. In fact, it states Centers are the CHEAPEST

In College Sports’ Big Money Era, Here’s Where the Dollars Go

On average, $1 million for S.E.C. quarterbacks; guards who earn a quarter of that: The New York Times examined the so-called Black Book, a kind of Zillow for college sports, that details athletes’ expected annual pay.

www.nytimes.com

Now, AGAIN, I'm not suggesting the boosters didn't tell Jake this. I'm suggesting there's a reason they stated it (i.e. We paid for a center)

 

[DoctahLexus]

Just want to clarify since you chose to take this shot.

I don't "doubt" Jake is getting info and I don't think Jake is blindly posting everything he hears (not to mention, I'm not saying Jake is a bad guy and his sources are obviously legit), but to blindly accept everything he posts and not understand his sources might have an agenda behind their opinion/"facts"...well it's just ignorant.

Here's a perfect example:

"Centers are the more expensive product in NIL. I actually think we offered the same relative value (ballpark). Got one, didn’t get the other."

Here's a SOURCED article in the NY Times that specifically states otherwise. In fact, it states Centers are the CHEAPEST

In College Sports’ Big Money Era, Here’s Where the Dollars Go

On average, $1 million for S.E.C. quarterbacks; guards who earn a quarter of that: The New York Times examined the so-called Black Book, a kind of Zillow for college sports, that details athletes’ expected annual pay.

www.nytimes.com

Now, AGAIN, I'm not suggesting the boosters didn't tell Jake this. I'm suggesting there's a reason they stated it (i.e. We paid for a center)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but since it says these are the top 25 at each position, wouldn’t the demand for a top 25 guard or forward be higher since there are two starting guards and forwards but only one starting center? Maybe they factor that in some other way. Like it would be twice as easy to be a top 25 center vs a top 25 guard. If I’m being dumb here don’t hesitate to say so

 

[two3zone]

To keep things clear since you caught me mid edit in the last post:

My point is the money helps of course, but it isn't a direct correlation. We're not so poor that we can't compete and the landscape of college sports proves that. It's just a weak excuse.

This is what I've been saying. We strike out on talent more than we have wins, that's why we've continuously and slowing gone down hill.

We cannot evaluate talent well enough and haven't for awhile.

 

[djcon57]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but since it says these are the top 25 at each position, wouldn’t the demand for a top 25 guard or forward be higher since there are two starting guards and forwards but only one starting center? Maybe they factor that in some other way. Like it would be twice as easy to be a top 25 center vs a top 25 guard. If I’m being dumb here don’t hesitate to say so

I get what you are saying, but think of it this way.

If you took at average of the top 25 of the highest paid QBs in the NFL and a top 25 of EVERY DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. What would be higher?

You could conclude. Oh, QBs get paid the highest.

In this case, if Centers get paid the highest, it would show accordingly.

 

[two3zone]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but since it says these are the top 25 at each position, wouldn’t the demand for a top 25 guard or forward be higher since there are two starting guards and forwards but only one starting center? Maybe they factor that in some other way. Like it would be twice as easy to be a top 25 center vs a top 25 guard. If I’m being dumb here don’t hesitate to say so

Kadary was one of the best guards available and I think Lampkin got paid around the same.

I'm guessing you nailed it.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I get what you are saying, but think of it this way.

If you took at average of the top 25 of the highest paid QBs in the NFL and a top 25 of EVERY DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. What would be higher?

You could conclude. Oh, QBs get paid the highest.

In this case, if Centers get paid the highest, it would show accordingly.

Dont think NFL is a 1 to 1 comparison here given the value at the QB position in football. How would this chart look if they had separate categories for point guard and shooting guard? Or small forward and power forward? I get why they didn't do that since the lines can be blurred between those positions, but if they did, I assume the pay demand for centers would look higher.

 

[djcon57]

Dont think NFL is a 1 to 1 comparison here given the value at the QB position in football. How would this chart look if they had separate categories for point guard and shooting guard? Or small forward and power forward? I get why they didn't do that since the lines can be blurred between those positions, but if they did, I assume the pay demand for centers would look higher.

If you want to think centers get paid more than scoring wings or point guards, feel free. I'm not going to stop you.

To clarify, if you want to suggest that Centers aren't the "cheapest" that's fine. I was debating the original claim that "Centers are the more expensive product in NIL"

 

[two3zone]

Hey man I am a bit of a stoner too so don't say I nailed anything until we get a more sober math wiz on the subject

I dropped half my join in a soda can about 10 minutes ago, we're at a threat level midnight situation right now.

We should start a stoners game watch one day, with all of us weirdos it would be damn interesting. Ha

 

[DoctahLexus]

If you want to think centers get paid more than scoring wings or point guards, feel free. I'm not going to stop you.

Brooo im not trying to make this a bigger thing, I am just saying by their criteria it would be twice as hard to crack the top 25 at the guard spot since that represents twice as many starting players as the center spot.

 

[Scooch]

Vegas is closer to MSG and easier to get to than Barclays.

Ain’t this the truth. SU might as well play on the moon rather than play at Barclays. That place is a colossal PITA to get to for anyone who isn’t within a 10 block radius or is right by a subway line in Manhattan that goes directly there.

SU would draw more metro NYC fans if they played at the Westchester County Center.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but since it says these are the top 25 at each position, wouldn’t the demand for a top 25 guard or forward be higher since there are two starting guards and forwards but only one starting center? Maybe they factor that in some other way. Like it would be twice as easy to be a top 25 center vs a top 25 guard. If I’m being dumb here don’t hesitate to say so

I’m not sure why the article genericized certain positions, but the sites/services that rank the portal players do specify PG, for example. See ON3 and rivals, for instance, on Kadary (near the bottom):

Kadary Richmond - St. John's Red Storm - Shooting Guard

Explore Kadary Richmond's athlete profile at On3.com. Get news and insights into his playing career, statistics, and achievements in sports.

www.on3.com

Kadary Richmond, St. John's Red Storm, Point Guard

Kadary Richmond is a Point Guard from Brooklyn, NY.

247sports.com

 

[DoctahLexus]

I’m not sure why the article genericized certain positions, but the sites/services that rank the portal players do specify PG, for example. See ON3 and rivals, for instance, on Kadary (near the bottom):

Kadary Richmond - St. John's Red Storm - Shooting Guard

Explore Kadary Richmond's athlete profile at On3.com. Get news and insights into his playing career, statistics, and achievements in sports.

www.on3.com

Kadary Richmond, St. John's Red Storm, Point Guard

Kadary Richmond is a Point Guard from Brooklyn, NY.

247sports.com

They probably did since it is often unclear if a player is a shooting or point guard/power or small forward. But them doing that skews the chart towards guards and forwards. If you the 25th best center, you are the 25th best center. If you are the 25th best "guard" then you are roughly the 12-13th best point guard or 12-13th best shooting guard. So I think the chart makes it look like the pay is higher for guards and forwards vs centers than it actually is.

 

[Col. Bleep]

After watching the game against Texas up close you are spot on with this assessment! Lampkin was an absolute difference maker, however we all saw that he is in no condition to play back-to-back nights. Luckily for us that will only come into play months from now at ACC tourney and possibly NCAA’s (every other night). Carlos unfortunately I already addressed in the Texas post-game thread. Davis was really pounding his body against Texas, but again not ready for back-to-back nights. And lastly to your point about the two McD’s players on the court, never once did anyone in the stands say “wow Donnie is a pro!”…..however all night long the crowd (and I sat around 90% Cuse fans) said “Wow! Tre Johnson is a legit pro/lottery pick!” Even though he wasn’t that efficient either of his two games in Brooklyn. You could just tell he was their go-to guy.

I thought Johnson did less than I'd expected (given the hype)...at least until crunch time.
Kaluma is the Texas guy who showed his stuff.
And their other guard Jordan Pope who snuck in for a couple of clutch offensive rebounds and follows because a certain SU guard didn't block him out.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Vegas is closer to MSG and easier to get to than Barclays.

LOL...It is probably faster for me to get in my car and drive to the Dome (3.5 hours) than it is for me to get to the Barclays center via car (unless the game is at 3 AM) or via public transportation.

 

[MikeSU02]

LOL...It is probably faster for me to get in my car and drive to the Dome (3.5 hours) than it is for me to get to the Barclays center via car (unless the game is at 3 AM) or via public transportation.

I went, but was leaving from my office in 1WTC, so it wasn't bad. But I live on the UWS. I joke that I would rather fly to Florida and be on Siesta Key than go visit someone in Brooklyn.

I really miss going to MSG. I don't even hate Barclay's as a venue, but it's just apples and oranges.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I thought Johnson did less than I'd expected (given the hype)...at least until crunch time.
Kaluma is the Texas guy who showed his stuff.
And their other guard Jordan Pope who snuck in for a couple of clutch offensive rebounds and follows because a certain SU guard didn't block him out.

See, now I thought that was a sign that we were playing pretty good defense on him, especially Mr. Starling. Second half was not quite as tight with the D, but we did a very good job on him early.

 

[rrlbees]

I would rather fly to Florida and be on Siesta Key

Ha. My daughter was just in Siesta Key for 4 days last weekend. Loved it.

 

[everja13]

If you want to think centers get paid more than scoring wings or point guards, feel free. I'm not going to stop you.

To clarify, if you want to suggest that Centers aren't the "cheapest" that's fine. I was debating the original claim that "Centers are the more expensive product in NIL"

Interestingly, that's exactly what the NCAA's public NIL data suggests. Cs with about $88k in average earnings, Gs $56k. "Wings" come in at $62k. (Forwards, though, lead with $126k!)

Not sure what accounts for the disparity, though it's clear the Opendorse data was from a much smaller subset.

 

[MikeSU02]

Ha. My daughter was just in Siesta Key for 4 days last weekend. Loved it.

Oh man. Siesta Key has been my happy place forever. Went even when I was really little (my uncle moved to Sarasota in the 70s, mom in the 90s).

Give me a beach day there and a visit to Daiquiri Deck or Siesta Key Oyster Bar any day.

Always run into upstate NYers, too, when I go there. It’s fantastic. That quartz sand and gulf water is the best.

 

[Sherman20]

If we are going to cry poverty we were better off hiring someone like Langel who can at least X and O’s a flawed squad to good wins. Right now we aren’t getting that.

Can he though? Do we really know that about Langel? People on here make all sorts of assumptions that I don’t think are always true. Langel has proven he can build a specific kind of program and find guys who can play well in that system. But do we know he’s great at scheming?