Postgame Thoughts... Louisville

[dollarbill44]

They could have called a foul on Jesse there

I watched the ending half a dozen times and don't see anything to warrant a foul on Jesse at the end.

 

[rrlbees]

Right, that’s why I said what I said.

Did you think that was a gotcha?

No. Just weird. And no win.

 

[malpearl31]

That’s all fair. My only counter would be that his +/- tonight was hideous and I just don’t think it’s coincidence that the team plays better when he’s not on the floor as far as the scoreboard, not just the individual box score stats. But I respect your point (especially when folks overplay the mins thing)

Just re-watched the first half to see if Bell was as bad as you said, and Bell’s +/- was 3rd-worst in the first half. Jesse, Benny and Bell were each -9 over the first 7 minutes before JB subbed them all out with L’ville leading 19-10. The replacement trio of Hima, Maliq and Taylor was then +14 over the next 8 minutes - with solid contributions from Taylor and Hima, for sure - and Joe and Judah both got hot at the same time (Joe’s driving layup in traffic and Judah’s prayer off the wrong foot over a defender were both fairly low-percentage shots, but we’ll take ’em).

Benny checked back in first, and immediately gave up an offensive rebound on a free throw that led to a Louisville 3 from Ellis. Jesse came back in next (SU led 29-27), and then both Benny and Jesse checked back out with just over a minute to play after Jesse picked up his 2nd foul with SU leading (32-31). Bol replaced Benny this time and immediately found Joe on a set back door play to push the lead to 34-31. (Nice call by JB, btw.) Then we closed out the half with Judah inexplicably turning the ball over at half court (leading to a fast break layup) and Bol fumbling a pass with under 10 seconds to play leading to Louisville’s jumper at the first half buzzer.

So the starting forwards/center ended up with Benny at -13 for the first half, Jesse was -10, and Bell ended up -9.

For the bench, Taylor was +8 for the half, Hima was +9, Maliq was +14 and Bol was -2.

So in summary, it wasn’t a great 1st half for Bell - but it was worse for Benny and Jesse if you want to go by the +/- numbers. Taylor was definitely the better option in the first half. But in the 2nd half - as I argued in an earlier post in this thread - Bell was pretty good, and I just don’t think he’s worthy of a lot of blame for our struggles (at least not tonight, anyway).

 

[Red Holzman]

Benny "Shredder" Williams and a Keystone Cops Ending were the highlights of an entertaining game.
Two programs in stages of lost glory battling to avoid being crowned The Biggest Loser-
The plot twisted and turned -I couldn't look away as both teams struggled unsuccessfully to play good basketball.
The game was close, keeping my interest by imagining how it may end -and it didn't disappoint.

Thanks to adapting to the product over several seasons, able to really enjoy watching this game for what it was, and not fretting over the quality of play or potential for a loss.
Adapted by making the best of it, accepting what I can't change while hoping for better.

 

[Trueblue25]

2-1 in the ACC with two wins to go until top 25 contention.

Beat UVA.

Will be a tough one

 

[Cusefan0307]

2-1 in the ACC with two wins to go until top 25 contention.

Beat UVA.

Will be a tough one

3-1.

 

[grepal]

Play the forwards who are helping the most on any given game

 

[dollarbill44]

That was the worst basketball game by two teams I’ve ever seen played at the college level. At no point did we look like we even practice.

We we’re playing the worst power conference team of the past 10 years and they got every single loose ball and we continuously handed them the basketball.

I have zero idea what Judah was doing today. He was completely out of control.

Edwards has not played well offensively now two games in a row.

Girard is having to do way too much and nobody else did anything of much consequence.

I guess you never saw the Butler-UConn championship game. It was peach bushel worthy.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Just re-watched the first half to see if Bell was as bad as you said, and Bell’s +/- was 3rd-worst in the first half. Jesse, Benny and Bell were each -9 over the first 7 minutes before JB subbed them all out with L’ville leading 19-10. The replacement trio of Hima, Maliq and Taylor was then +14 over the next 8 minutes - with solid contributions from Taylor and Hima, for sure - and Joe and Judah both got hot at the same time (Joe’s driving layup in traffic and Judah’s prayer off the wrong foot over a defender were both fairly low-percentage shots, but we’ll take ’em).

Benny checked back in first, and immediately gave up an offensive rebound on a free throw that led to a Louisville 3 from Ellis. Jesse came back in next (SU led 29-27), and then both Benny and Jesse checked back out with just over a minute to play after Jesse picked up his 2nd foul with SU leading (32-31). Bol replaced Benny this time and immediately found Joe on a set back door play to push the lead to 34-31. (Nice call by JB, btw.) Then we closed out the half with Judah inexplicably turning the ball over at half court (leading to a fast break layup) and Bol fumbling a pass with under 10 seconds to play leading to Louisville’s jumper at the first half buzzer.

So the starting forwards/center ended up with Benny at -13 for the first half, Jesse was -10, and Bell ended up -9.

For the bench, Taylor was +8 for the half, Hima was +9, Maliq was +14 and Bol was -2.

So in summary, it wasn’t a great 1st half for Bell - but it was worse for Benny and Jesse if you want to go by the +/- numbers. Taylor was definitely the better option in the first half. But in the 2nd half - as I argued in an earlier post in this thread - Bell was pretty good, and I just don’t think he’s worthy of a lot of blame for our struggles (at least not tonight, anyway).

I'll take Jesse over Benny and Bell 8 days a week and twice more on Sunday. Bell is about as complete a zero as you can get on any given night and when he kinda sorta if you squint has a relatively good game, he's still not good. IMO, basketball stats are about the overall season, anyone can piece together a few hot stretches here and there. But the overall stats tell the story. He's one of the worst players in the ACC with over 200 minutes played (outside of a handful of BC and Louisville players). When he's on the court, everyone else has to hedge towards him because he's such a non-entity.

I wish I knew what people expected out of Jesse. By most every number or stat, he's easily the best center SU has had in a very long time. His per 40m or 100 possession numbers are all better than Rak, Fab, AO, etc, with the exception of Rak's points in his one season when he was the only option - and even then it's pretty close. Jesse even averages fewer fouls than those guys. It's hard to shine playing the zone and being responsible for everything inside the 3-pt arc, as well as playing in offense where he's the 3rd option, but Jesse is doing a helluva job.

 

[Trueblue25]

3-1.

Even better!

Forgot BC existed for a moment

 

[shandeezy7]

Even better!

Forgot BC existed for a moment

So did their fans.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Look we have won 7/8 games were they pretty no but this team is getting better

They've already played 11 of the easier 15 games on their schedule. The rest of the season will not be so kind.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Did the game get flexed to another channel? I set my DVR to record all Cuse games and instead I’ve got a Tennessee game labeled as a Cuse game.

Same thing happened to me. Had it set to record game on ESPNU. Got home from gym, settled on couch to watch game and got Tenn-MSU instead.

Simply waited for game to be over and available on ESPN app via replay and watched it there.

Options are nice.

Game, itself? Not so much.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Benny is a fierce rebounder when it’s just he and another SU player rebounding a missed FT with no opponents in the lane. Otherwise he’s a wet noodle

 

[Eric15]

That play where Judah sort of quasi-accidentally inbounded the ball, Louisville grabbed it and scored, but the refs reset everything... objectively, was that the correct move by the ref?

 

[Eric15]

Really? We won by one at Louisville and if their point guard made a simple pass at the end they win.

Yep. I mean a simple bounce pass to the right and its game over for us.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Yep. I mean a simple bounce pass to the right and its game over for us.

View attachment 223914

No way. Bennie would have jumped over Joes head while back flipping and pinned the attempted shot to the backboard with his foot while tearing off another jersey

 

[bballbeadle]

Wow, Pitt won.

Oh crap! That means Virginia is going to kill us even more than they were going to kill us! They‘ll have the “bounce back kill our next opponent” game. I would prefer the “Syracuse is no good la di dah” mindset.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Brown and Taylor have to get more minutes. Watching Bell and Benny for 30 minutes is absolute torture at times.

Well, Bell did make a few shots, and even got a couple rebounds, a block and a steal. He seldom does all of that in one game.

 

[OrangeDW]

Same thing happened to me. Had it set to record game on ESPNU. Got home from gym, settled on couch to watch game and got Tenn-MSU instead.

Simply waited for game to be over and available on ESPN app via replay and watched it there.

Options are nice.

Game, itself? Not so much.

I just found the condensed game on YouTube and watched the important stuff in 10 minutes, since I already knew the outcome and it was late.

 

[MikeSU02]

Well, Bell did make a few shots, and even got a couple rebounds, a block and a steal. He seldom does all of that in one game.

Bell is still a net negative for us.

He has the highest usage% when he's on the floor out of the five forwards (including JT, not including Q) that may play.

Out of those five, he has:

Second Highest TOV%
Lowest Steal %
Second lowest Block %
Lowest Assist %
Lowest Rebound %
Lowest PER (It's at like 10.4)
Lowest in WS/40
Lowest in BPM

He's relatively ok in the eFG being second there, but he still has an eFG of 53%.

I'm not saying he can't get better, but right now, having him out there is still hoping to win the lottery to be able to retire. Again, he may be good down the line, but right now he's not worth banking on to start, imo.

 

[malpearl31]

I'll take Jesse over Benny and Bell 8 days a week and twice more on Sunday.

I sincerely hope that my post wasn’t interpreted as insinuating that I would prefer Bell over Jesse… all I was trying to point out was that Bell’s performance last night was nowhere near as horrendous as some folks were making it out to be.

I wish I knew what people expected out of Jesse.

I think that most people have been very pleased with Jesse this year - I certainly don’t see a lot of criticism about him on this site. He’s rebounding like a beast, he’s blocking/altering shots at an amazing rate, and even with a slight dip over the past 3 games he remains a force to be reckoned with on the offensive side of the ball, too. If he can avoid foul trouble going forward, we have an outside chance of exceeding expectations for the season.

 

[Fly Rodder]

That play where Judah sort of quasi-accidentally inbounded the ball, Louisville grabbed it and scored, but the refs reset everything... objectively, was that the correct move by the ref?

I thought so, there was a whistle just before Judah fell down. It was a bit chaotic, but I thought that it was a case of Judah starting the inbounds before the refs signal to play.

 

[dollarbill44]

I thought so, there was a whistle just before Judah fell down. It was a bit chaotic, but I thought that it was a case of Judah starting the inbounds before the refs signal to play.

My take was Judah slipped while taking the ball out of bounds after the basket. Because he hadnt established himself OB, the ball was never officially taken over the end line.
That said, inbound like to see Judah calm down a little bit and be more patient overall. He turned it over needlessly multiple times on the dribble last night because he wasn't patient.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My take was Judah slipped while taking the ball out of bounds after the basket. Because he hadnt established himself OB, the ball was never officially taken over the end line.
That said, inbound like to see Judah calm down a little bit and be more patient overall. He turned it over needlessly multiple times on the dribble last night because he wasn't patient.

That court was awful. Guys were slipping everywhere.