Premier League 2023-24

[IthacaMatt]

Let's start a thread for the upcoming season of the English Premier League, broadcast in the US on NBC and Peacock.

Personally, I think the Premier League deserves its reputation as the world's most competitive league, and highest quality top-to-bottom.

Superior TV revenues and a more equitable distribution system ensures that many teams in England, certainly the top 10-12, have quality and depth in their squads that was unthinkable when I first became a fan 14 seasons ago.

Although, on the one hand, we are witnessing the dominance of Pep Guardiola's Manchester City these past few years, it is only the ridiculous consistency that they've created that has separated them from several very talented, very well coached teams that could have won other competitions in other countries in Europe with the quality of their squads.

In my opinion, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal and maybe even Newcastle have a shot at the title.

Any of Man City, Liverpool, Man United, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Aston Villa, and maybe Brighton could all make Top 4, or certainly qualify for Europe.

That's a deep collection of very good teams.

Who is your favorite team? Any particular reason for your fandom?

Who is your "side girl" team?

And please tell us your Top 4 or Top 6 or Top 10, and if you want to share any opinions, have at it.

Let's have some fun with this this season!

 

[IthacaMatt]

And for those of you who might want to talk x's and o's, here's an interesting article from The Athletic, talking about the resurgence of the counter-attack as an important tactical tool.

The thesis of the article is that all up-and-down the table, most of the Premier League has accepted the change in style of play, seeking greater possession, high pressing opponents to force turnovers high up the pitch close to the opponents goal, etc.

But the premise of the article is that the old Mourinho counter-attack, which he perfected (IMO) at Real Madrid with Ronaldo and Ozil and DiMaria, is still an incredibly useful tool in the tactical arsenal, and should be used at times during games, even if you are a possession-based system; like when protecting a lead late, and still posing a threat.

That Real Madrid team was the team that dethroned Pep's Barca with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, the "greatest team ever". Ronaldo scored close to 70 goals that season, his best ever, and Real knocked off Barca. Mourinho's finest hour as a coach (well, maybe but for the eye gouge with his finger to the Barca Ass't Coach ...).

Structural benefits: The rise of counter-attacking in the Premier League

What was once a method of attack attributed to inferior sides is now increasingly significant for top teams

theathletic.com

 

[IthacaMatt]

Premier League Summer Series in the US kicks off tonight in a few minutes with Chelsea facing Brighton. Lots of sub-plots in this "friendly" with lots of dealings between the teams in the last couple years, including Chelsea's current pursuit of Moises Caicedo, and DeZerbi, the Brighton coach has been talking some serious shtt in the lead up about how they want Levi Colwill, Chelsea's 20 year old centerback, who did so well on loan at Brighton last year.

Tomorrow looks like a super interesting match-up between Newcastle and Aston Villa, two teams on the rise. Newcastle has added Sandro Tonali to their midfield and is actively looking at other targets.

Villa, meanwhile, has signed Youri Tielmans, a terrific midfielder from Leicester; Pau Torres, a centerback from Villareal in Spain who Emery has coached before, and they just added winger Moussa Diaby from Bayer Leverkeusen who scored 14 goals last year.

 

[CanadianSU]

Let's start a thread for the upcoming season of the English Premier League, broadcast in the US on NBC and Peacock.

Personally, I think the Premier League deserves its reputation as the world's most competitive league, and highest quality top-to-bottom.

Superior TV revenues and a more equitable distribution system ensures that many teams in England, certainly the top 10-12, have quality and depth in their squads that was unthinkable when I first became a fan 14 seasons ago.

Although, on the one hand, we are witnessing the dominance of Pep Guardiola's Manchester City these past few years, it is only the ridiculous consistency that they've created that has separated them from several very talented, very well coached teams that could have won other competitions in other countries in Europe with the quality of their squads.

In my opinion, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal and maybe even Newcastle have a shot at the title.

Any of Man City, Liverpool, Man United, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Aston Villa, and maybe Brighton could all make Top 4, or certainly qualify for Europe.

That's a deep collection of very good teams.

Who is your favorite team? Any particular reason for your fandom?

Who is your "side girl" team?

And please tell us your Top 4 or Top 6 or Top 10, and if you want to share any opinions, have at it.

Let's have some fun with this this season!

Arsenal. COYG! But also I was born in Ukraine so hoping Mudryk shows up for you guys. Think last year there was just far too much chaos on that Chelsea team for him to adjust.

I have 1. City, 2. Liverpool, 3. Manchester United, 4. Arsenal, 5. Chelsea in my bets for the final standings. Who knows though.

 

[OrangeFoo]

It’s Man City’s to lose once again. Liverpool needs to break in an entirely new midfield. The only way they can challenge is if Jones maintains his form from last season and the Euros and steps into Fabhinos spot. I also think the backline is very shaky. I think they do get back into top 4 assuming no major injuries.

Arsenal is good, but I don’t see a consistent game changer like Haaland or KDB of even Salah in his prime. They are a collection of “nice” players. They also have to play in the champions league this year which will test them.

Newcastle has some interesting players, but still need more depth.

Brighton is a nice team but lost MacAllister and still maybe Caicedo. Does anyone really back them for top 4 finish?

I don’t follow ManUre very closely, but they don’t seem to have done anything meaningful to really move the needle? Maybe getting rid of Maguire is addition by subtraction?

Chelsea seems completely lost from a strategy perspective.

Anyone else?

 

[IthacaMatt]

OK, the season kicks off on Friday

Arsenal. COYG! But also I was born in Ukraine so hoping Mudryk shows up for you guys. Think last year there was just far too much chaos on that Chelsea team for him to adjust.

I have 1. City, 2. Liverpool, 3. Manchester United, 4. Arsenal, 5. Chelsea in my bets for the final standings. Who knows though.

I think City is vulnerable. This may be one of their "off" years. Lots of player turnover, and are Foden and Grealish ready to turn into "stars" - players who you can depend on?

I think Liverpool still needs Romeo Lavia in midfield, and maybe one more centerback.

United over-achieved last year, and don't look that impressive to me, to be honest. I think they wind up around 6th. Arsenal will be good, as will Liverpool.

Chelsea losing Nkunku until probably December is a huge blow. He looked very good on the US pre-season tour. I think they will sign Michael Olise from Crystal Palace to replace him for now.

Newcastle have done some great business. I think they are going to challenge for Top 4 / Top 6.

I think Unai Emery at Aston Villa has made some excellent signings, and I think they are going to be a surprise Top 4 team heading into December.

Brighton looked really good in pre-season, and are also pretty cohesive under DeZerbi. If Chelsea complete the Moises Caicedo acquisition soon, will they be able to close the deal with Mohammed Kudus of Ajax to replace him? Kudus is refusing to agree to a contract with no release clause, after seeing how they have held Caicedo hostage this summer.

Will Spurs sell Harry Kane to Bayern? I have a hard time seeing Daniel Levy trying to milk more money out of this. He won't have any time left to buy quality players to bolster the squad. If they sell, they won't replace well in a rush at the end of the window, just like when the sold Gareth Bale so late in the window to Real Madrid about 10 years ago. They are lucky to finish 8th without him, as presently constituted.

 

[IthacaMatt]

ANYONE ELSE FOR THE FANTASY PREMIER LEAGUE GAME ????

 

[IthacaMatt]

Daily Mirror's Supercomputer Premier League Predictions are out:

Premier League table according to supercomputer​

1) Manchester City
2) Arsenal
3) Liverpool
4) Manchester United
5) Chelsea
6) Newcastle
7) Tottenham
8) Brighton
9) Aston Villa
10) West Ham
11) Brentford
12) Crystal Palace
13) Fulham
14) Burnley
15) Everton
16) Nottingham Forest
17) Bournemouth
18) Wolves
19) Sheffield United
20) Luton Town


Personally, I think Man City will start a bit slow, as their offense finds their flow.

Arsenal should start fast, with 3 very winnable games to start, then Manchester United at home right before the first International break.

I think Liverpool is vulnerable early, while they finalize their midfield. They need a defensive midfielder badly, and right away. If Chelsea's Christopher Nkunku hadn't just suffered a knee injury, that might have been an early season upset on the opening weekend.

I think Manchester United hasn't spent well. 135M spent on Mason Mount and Rasmus Hojland to bolster the attack. We have little reason to believe the 75M Hojland is any better than what Wout Weghorst did for them last year. I do like the new goal keeper, though. Expensive, but worth it.

I think Eddie Howe is going to take a small step back this year, with the multiple demands on them. They have added quality players, but they weren't great in preseason. I expected them to look a bit better. They might see some bumps to start the season.

I think Aston Villa look great under Unai Emery. I think they have recruited very well, strengthening the spine of the team with quality players.

Chelsea will be good, but not there yet as a challenger. Pochettino is a great choice for this squad, though.

Tottenham have just sold Harry Kane to Bayern, and it's hard to see them being any better than about 8th place in the league without his 30 goals. Son Yung-Min will have to return to his best, and Richarlison has to step up and be consistent, not just petulant.

I like the West Ham roster, if they add another attacking player or two. Moyes has to be a bit more offense oriented but they have some quality additions in Harry McGuire, Edson Alvarez from Ajax (Mexico), and soon Scott McTominay from United and James Ward-Prowse from Southampton.

Brentford without Ivan Toney is going to struggle to score goals until he returns from suspension in January.

Brighton looked really good in preseason, but has sold a lot of good players. I think if Chelsea closes on Caicedo for around 100M, then they are going to need reinforcements. DeZerbi is a very good coach, but this will be a challenge, especially playing in Europe.

Fulham seem like a bunch of players are going to leave late in the window, and will struggle to replicate last year's great results, especially if Willian takes the money in Saudi Arabia.

Crystal Palace under Roy Hodgson is surprisingly effective, but they lost Wilfred Zaha, might sell Michael Olise, and need more offensive firepower to be safely free from relegation fears.

I think that there will be a clearer separation between the top 8-10 teams, and the bottom this year. I don't think things will be so equal in the midtable.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If you're someone like me who can't get enough of this stuff, here is Ian Darke of ESPN's picks for this year's Premier League:

Ian Darke's Premier League preview, predictions: Will Man City four-peat? Will Chelsea rebound?

Ian Darke is here to preview the Premier League season like only he can. The big questions: besides Man City's quest for a fourth straight title, how much impact can Pochettino have at Chelsea? And who goes down?

www.espn.co.uk

 

[IthacaMatt]

We're in the middle of opening weekend, and to me, I see 9 teams that are very good, and could realistically compete for European places this year. I don't think any other league has more than half this many really good teams.

Championship Contenders: Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal
European Contenders: Man United, Newcastle, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Brighton and Spurs

Even with Harry Kane leaving Spurs for Bayern Munich, you have to figure they'll sign a couple more attacking players with the 115M they received, and they still have almost 3 weeks to close a couple deals.

Chelsea & Liverpool in a mad scrap to try to sign elite midfielders Moises Caicedo and Romeo Lavia - and they face each other tomorrow at 11:30 AM. John Henry and Todd Boehley are both going to be at the game. Sparks may fly!

 

[Forza Azzurri]

We're in the middle of opening weekend, and to me, I see 9 teams that are very good, and could realistically compete for European places this year. I don't think any other league has more than half this many really good teams.

Championship Contenders: Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal
European Contenders: Man United, Newcastle, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Brighton and Spurs

Even with Harry Kane leaving Spurs for Bayern Munich, you have to figure they'll sign a couple more attacking players with the 115M they received, and they still have almost 3 weeks to close a couple deals.

Chelsea & Liverpool in a mad scrap to try to sign elite midfielders Moises Caicedo and Romeo Lavia - and they face each other tomorrow at 11:30 AM. John Henry and Todd Boehley are both going to be at the game. Sparks may fly!

Not the Prem but Pulisic had a terrific debut for Milan yesterday. A screamer of a goal and a hockey assist on the other.

I am going to be watching a lot of Serie A this year between Milan (Pulisic and Musah), Juve (Weah) and, of course, Fiorentina.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not the Prem but Pulisic had a terrific debut for Milan yesterday. A screamer of a goal and a hockey assist on the other.

I am going to be watching a lot of Serie A this year between Milan (Pulisic and Musah), Juve (Weah) and, of course, Fiorentina.

Just got back from 9 days in Miami and the Keys. I'll have to look for the replay.

 

[upperdeck]

Not the Prem but Pulisic had a terrific debut for Milan yesterday. A screamer of a goal and a hockey assist on the other.

I am going to be watching a lot of Serie A this year between Milan (Pulisic and Musah), Juve (Weah) and, of course, Fiorentina.

hockey assist or a bball hockey assist?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not the Prem but Pulisic had a terrific debut for Milan yesterday. A screamer of a goal and a hockey assist on the other.

I am going to be watching a lot of Serie A this year between Milan (Pulisic and Musah), Juve (Weah) and, of course, Fiorentina.

I watched the highlights, and he had quite a game. He, Leao and Giroud will probably form one of the best attacks in Serie A, and they also have Divock Origi to play the 9 against certain teams.
I've signed up for Serie A on my DVR.

I could see half a dozen teams competing this year, which makes good viewing. Italian football is definitely on the upswing. What is the best Serie A "highlights" show, and what channel, CBS Sports?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I watched the highlights, and he had quite a game. He, Leao and Giroud will probably form one of the best attacks in Serie A, and they also have Divock Origi to play the 9 against certain teams.
I've signed up for Serie A on my DVR.

I could see half a dozen teams competing this year, which makes good viewing. Italian football is definitely on the upswing. What is the best Serie A "highlights" show, and what channel, CBS Sports?

We suscribe to Paramount+.

Serie A, Coppa Italia, champions, Europa and Europa conference leagues.

Also has highlight shows.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Absolutely insane comeback by Liverpool against Newcastle on the Ross today. They went down 0-1 on a really bad mistake by Alexander-Arnold… VVD goes off on a red card and then Allison makes what could be the save of the season all before 30 minutes are up. Fast forward to the last 15 minutes of the game and Nunez scores two magnificent goals for ten man Liverpool to steal 3 points.

Liverpool’s Hungarian number 8 is the future of that team… next KDB. Liverpool is two midfielders short at least one full back and center back. Robertson’s legs are gone and TAA is way too loose with the ball and teams are targeting him on D It’s a disgrace how FSG has handled their transfer business this window after the first two. Having said all that they are something else going forward.

Not sure where this leaves Newcastle… that was an epic What, gut punch loss.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Absolutely insane comeback by Liverpool against Newcastle on the Ross today. They went down 0-1 on a really bad mistake by Alexander-Arnold… VVD goes off on a red card and then Allison makes what could be the save of the season all before 30 minutes are up. Fast forward to the last 15 minutes of the game and Nunez scores two magnificent goals for ten man Liverpool to steal 3 points.

Liverpool’s Hungarian number 8 is the future of that team… next KDB. Liverpool is two midfielders short at least one full back and center back. Robertson’s legs are gone and TAA is way too loose with the ball and teams are targeting him on D It’s a disgrace how FSG has handled their transfer business this window after the first two. Having said all that they are something else going forward.

Not sure where this leaves Newcastle… that was an epic What, gut punch loss.

Liverpool with the great comeback. What a game! Surprised that Newcastle didn't push harder for the second goal in the 2nd half. It's hard to run out the clock for 45 minutes against a team with the offensive talent of Liverpool. Eddie Howe got too timid.

West Ham with a great result against Brighton. City not in gear yet; they will miss DeBruyne, who had most of the assists on Haaland's goals.

Aston Villa back with a vengeance after getting blasted by Newcastle opening weekend, two wins and a 7-1 goal differential these past 2 weeks, while Newcastle have lost back-to-back 1 goal decisions to Man City and Liverpool.

Spurs surprisingly sit 3rd, with 2 wins and a draw in their opening 3 games, including a win over Man United. United's win over Nottingham Forest gives them 6 points from 3 games, but you can't say they've looked very good so far.

 

[IthacaMatt]

As the Premier League returned this weekend, we got to see West Ham give Man City a decent scare before eventually succumbing 3-1. It seems like City found another star in the making in Jeremy Doku on the left wing. He was dangerous and almost unplayable at times.

Arsenal continue to tinker on set plays and with their lineup. They sat Havertz and got a late winner over Everton.

Brighton toyed with Man United at the Field of Dreams. Ten Haag's team has plateaued, and they continue to lose attacking players. United's summer spending (higher net than any other EPL team, including Chelsea) was not well spent. They are going to get worse until some of their new midfielders bed in. And they ought to get back to playing Scott McTominay, who has been scoring goals for fun for Scotland.

Newcastle has been underwhelming compared to expectations so far. Eddie Howe mixed up his lineup against Brentford, another well coached team under Thomas Frank, and squeaked out a late 1-0 for some momentum (?) as they head off on their first Champions League adventure at Milan.

Spurs left it VERY late against Sheffield United, but grabbed a couple goals in stoppage time, including Richarlison's first home goal for Tottenham to steal a 2-1 win, and stay undefeated in 2nd place. (Harry who?)

Liverpool also under the radar a bit has won 4 in a row to move 3rd behind Spurs on goal difference. Liverpool's midfield is starting to get better.

Aston Villa has had a couple losses on the road, but gained a nice 3-1 win over a pretty good Crystal Palace team this weekend.

Interesting table so far.

 

[OrangeFoo]

As the Premier League returned this weekend, we got to see West Ham give Man City a decent scare before eventually succumbing 3-1. It seems like City found another star in the making in Jeremy Doku on the left wing. He was dangerous and almost unplayable at times.

Arsenal continue to tinker on set plays and with their lineup. They sat Havertz and got a late winner over Everton.

Brighton toyed with Man United at the Field of Dreams. Ten Haag's team has plateaued, and they continue to lose attacking players. United's summer spending (higher net than any other EPL team, including Chelsea) was not well spent. They are going to get worse until some of their new midfielders bed in. And they ought to get back to playing Scott McTominay, who has been scoring goals for fun for Scotland.

Newcastle has been underwhelming compared to expectations so far. Eddie Howe mixed up his lineup against Brentford, another well coached team under Thomas Frank, and squeaked out a late 1-0 for some momentum (?) as they head off on their first Champions League adventure at Milan.

Spurs left it VERY late against Sheffield United, but grabbed a couple goals in stoppage time, including Richarlison's first home goal for Tottenham to steal a 2-1 win, and stay undefeated in 2nd place. (Harry who?)

Liverpool also under the radar a bit has won 4 in a row to move 3rd behind Spurs on goal difference. Liverpool's midfield is starting to get better.

Aston Villa has had a couple losses on the road, but gained a nice 3-1 win over a pretty good Crystal Palace team this weekend.

Interesting table so far.

It will be a miracle whenever anyone takes points off of Man City this year... you rightfully pointed out that West Ham gave them a "decent scare"... I watched that game and the amount of pressure they put West Ham under the whole game was insane. West Ham's goalkeeper had to stand on his head just to keep them in the game. This was top table side against top table side and it was men vs boys. I'm not sure Liverpool or Arsenal, who are looking like two and three in some order, can do much better. If the EPL doesn't want to turn into a much more expensive version of the Bundesliga they need to address the competitive balance issue with Man City.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It will be a miracle whenever anyone takes points off of Man City this year... you rightfully pointed out that West Ham gave them a "decent scare"... I watched that game and the amount of pressure they put West Ham under the whole game was insane. West Ham's goalkeeper had to stand on his head just to keep them in the game. This was top table side against top table side and it was men vs boys. I'm not sure Liverpool or Arsenal, who are looking like two and three in some order, can do much better. If the EPL doesn't want to turn into a much more expensive version of the Bundesliga they need to address the competitive balance issue with Man City.

Nothing needs to be done about City. Winning this year would make it 6 titles in 7 seasons, but it's the natural order of things. Dominant teams define eras, just like in the NFL.

Manchester United won 5 titles in 6 years, and 4 in 5 years under Alex Ferguson in the 90s and 2000s.

Liverpool won 4 out of 5, 3 in a row, and then 3 out of 5 in the 70s and 80s.

If Pep wins another Champions League, or dare I say another treble or even quadruple, then he may retire from club coaching and turn to a national team to try to win a World Cup.

Only Ferguson won a treble in England that included the European championship. If Guardiola does that twice, after dominating England as he has done, it's very difficult to say he isn't the best coach of all time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Interesting tactics article in The Athletic this morning, talking about some of the strategies employed by various clubs, and the extent to which they are working.

For instance, Brighton is so committed to playing out of the back that they have not kicked a single long ball out from the keeper all season. Their intricate build-up play begins with the goal keeper never even passing outside of the penalty area, except for once in 5 games.

At Arsenal, they take a look at how Arteta is using more short corners than he has before. And even Pep Guardiola has changed his offense a bit, going a bit more direct, and encouraging attacking players to dribble a bit more than he has in the past.

Premier League curiosities: Eight quirks from the 2023-24 season so far

The early part of a new season always throws up some statistical and tactical oddities - here are some of our favourites

theathletic.com

 

[IthacaMatt]

It will be a miracle whenever anyone takes points off of Man City this year... you rightfully pointed out that West Ham gave them a "decent scare"... I watched that game and the amount of pressure they put West Ham under the whole game was insane. West Ham's goalkeeper had to stand on his head just to keep them in the game. This was top table side against top table side and it was men vs boys. I'm not sure Liverpool or Arsenal, who are looking like two and three in some order, can do much better. If the EPL doesn't want to turn into a much more expensive version of the Bundesliga they need to address the competitive balance issue with Man City.

I read an article a few minutes ago about Man City having a serious shot at an unprecendent "Quadruple" - all 3 domestic championships, plus repeating as Champions League winners.

Liverpool almost did this a couple seasons ago, but wound up only with the League Cup and FA Cup, and lost both the other bigger competitions. They were also a husk of themselves the following season.

It's mentally brutal to be perfect for 10 months, ever single game, twice a week. The performance standards of today's elite teams are really remarkable.

 

[JDubbin]

Liverpool got absolutely shafted by ref Simon Hooper & VAR against Spurs today… absolutely embarrassing. I’m genuinely frustrated, had a chance to go top of the league: An onside goal ruled out without lines being drawn by VAR that was CLEARLY onside. Yellow turned to Red on a monitor review that was shown as a still shot of the end result instead of the play itself, Jota was given a yellow on a play when his knee was clipped by the heal of a Spurs player while running, 90 seconds later he’s given another yellow… Liverpool playing with 9, away, with a good goal ruled off & end up losing on a last second stoppage time own goal. Infuriating.

 

[JDubbin]

Liverpool got absolutely shafted by ref Simon Hooper & VAR against Spurs today… absolutely embarrassing. I’m genuinely frustrated, had a chance to go top of the league: An onside goal ruled out without lines being drawn by VAR that was CLEARLY onside. Yellow turned to Red on a monitor review that was shown as a still shot of the end result instead of the play itself, Jota was given a yellow on a play when his knee was clipped by the heal of a Spurs player while running, 90 seconds later he’s given another yellow… Liverpool playing with 9, away, with a good goal ruled off & end up losing on a last second stoppage time own goal. Infuriating.

 

[IthacaMatt]

View attachment 231776

As things stand right now, I'm looking to open a 20 point margin on you by the end of this week.