PSU Trustees

[NKR1978]

According to ESPN, some trustees are appealing the sanctions. In light of the fact that PSU signed off on the sanctions, this could only be a precursor for further litigation to try to get the courts to step in and nullify the sanctions. The NCAA will reject the appeal and PSU will sue.

At this point it is clear that Penn State, as an institution, cannot be trusted to do pretty much anything in an honest and forthcoming way. At some point the NCAA has to step in and tell PSU to get its students, trustees and alumni in line or risk a determination that it is not living up to the letter or spirit of the sanctions against it or risk further punishment.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...s-trustees-file-appeal-federal-lawsuit-denial

 

[billsin01]

According to ESPN, some trustees are appealing the sanctions. In light of the fact that PSU signed off on the sanctions. This could only be a precursor for further litigation to try to get the courts to step in and nullify the sanctions. The NCAA will reject the appeal and PSU will sue.

At this point it is clear that Penn State, as an institution, cannot be trusted to do pretty much anything in an honest and forthcoming way. At some point the NCAA has to step in and tell PSU to get its students, trustees and alumni in line or risk a determination that it is not living up to the letter or spirit of the sanctions against it or risk further punishment.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...s-trustees-file-appeal-federal-lawsuit-denial

Wow, gotta give PedSt credit -- they are giving us an excellent case study in what not to do when confronted with scandal.

 

[TexanMark]

Tell them on second thought...you are shut down for 5 years.

 

[Faegan]

Head hurts. Make it stop.

 

[NKR1978]

http://www.lubrano4psu.com/

This is the campaign website for the PSU trustee who stated that Paterno has more integrity in his pinky than Mark Emmert has in his entire body.

This is part of his platform - of course there is nothing there about securing an apology to the many boys who were raped by Sandusky as a result of Paterno's disgraceful inaction.

S ecure a public apology to the Paterno family for the disgraceful manner in which Coach Paterno was treated. We cannot heal as a community until this occurs.

 

[dollarbill44]

"The sanctions are "excessive and unreasonable" because they inflict "permanent damage to an entire generation of student-athletes and coaches who were innocent of any wrongdoing during their time on campus ..."

This line of reasoning always makes me laugh. Most sanctions the NCAA places on programs are punishing the current players for something that happened in the past, in many cases before any of them were on campus. What is the NCAA supposed to do - not punish a program simply because all of the players are gone from the time of the transgression? Are they not supposed to punish Miami over the Shapiro mess because it would only punish players that had nothing to do with it?
The reasons for NCAA sanctions not just to punish for past violations but also to prevent future violations by making it hurt. If the NCAA can't apply sanctions because of the time period, there really isn't much disincentive to cheat and the NCAA is reduced to little more than a sports promoter.

 

[javadoc]

So is this clown arguing that the sanctions should be rescinded, or that they are justified and simply need to be reached again via "kosher" procedural channels?

There is a saying something along the lines of "all procedural arguments are disingenuous."

Alternatively, as the bit about "harming an entire generation" flatly states, the sanctions are excessive and should be rescinded (I presume). Which is the real point of this garbage.

IF the Board moves to expel the trustees who have done this, I am content to let the existing sanctions stand. If not, kill them dead (as a program).

 

[texasorange]

PSU should have been given the death penalty in the first place. Maybe the NCAA will get a second chance.

 

[Townie72]

I don't see how adds up to "PSU cannot be trusted to do pretty much anything in an honest and forthcoming way". How is anyone being "dishonest" or not "forthcoming"?

What I hear you saying is that you are annoyed that PSU just doesn't shut up and take their medicine. And that if they don't shut up and stop annoying people that the NCAA ought to hit them with even more severe penalties.

I was one on the forum who said that the NCAA should not get heavily involved and I believed they would not ... because of the precedent it would set and the difficulties the NCAA would have policing this sort of criminal behavior. I was wrong on the "would not" part, obviously. We are now about to see Chapter 1 of the "should not" drama. We'll see just how wrong I was on this as it plays out in the NCAA and in the courts. This could get very, very messy.

What we are seeing is legal wrangling. There are PSU trustees that disagree with the way things were handled. They believe that the PSU president did not have the authority to accept the sanctions without a board vote.

They believe that the Freeh Report contained conclusions that were not correct and that the NCAA using this report as the basis for their actions was flawed.

They are saying that the punishment would affect many, many innocent people.

If this thing gets to State or even Federal Court, there's no telling what could happen. If the NCAA loses badly, then where are we?

I'm not arguing that the sanctions are too lenient, too severe or just right. But when things are done in a panic this is what you get.

 

[Townie72]

PSU should have been given the death penalty in the first place. Maybe the NCAA will get a second chance.

Wouldn't make any difference to these arguments. They are independent of the punishment. If the NCAA can't apply the sanctions, they can't apply the Death Penalty either.

We are about to find out --- possibly --- what the powers of the NCAA really are.

 

[kingottoiii]

http://www.lubrano4psu.com/

This is the campaign website for the PSU trustee who stated that Paterno has more integrity in his pinky than Mark Emmert has in his entire body.

This is part of his platform - of course there is nothing there about securing an apology to the many boys who were raped by Sandusky as a result of Paterno's disgraceful inaction.

S ecure a public apology to the Paterno family for the disgraceful manner in which Coach Paterno was treated. We cannot heal as a community until this occurs.

Wow the school should be embarrassed by this guy. It really amazes me that there is no one on the academic side that actually is rational and speaking out against these wackos. Just about every school has staff that is anti athletics. Are these people being silenced or do they not exist because of brain washing? I will say it again I really hope that the ENTIRE UNIVERSITY gets shut down. That place is sick.


Do you think a motion should be filed requesting that the board of Trustees provide a formal apology to Joe Paterno in person for their action?
Yes. Coach Paterno should be invited to a BOT meeting during which a formal apology is made to him by the BOT.

 

[texascpa]

I don't see how adds up to "PSU cannot be trusted to do pretty much anything in an honest and forthcoming way". How is anyone being "dishonest" or not "forthcoming"?

What I hear you saying is that you are annoyed that PSU just doesn't shut up and take their medicine. And that if they don't shut up and stop annoying people that the NCAA ought to hit them with even more severe penalties.

I was one on the forum who said that the NCAA should not get heavily involved and I believed they would not ... because of the precedent it would set and the difficulties the NCAA would have policing this sort of criminal behavior. I was wrong on the "would not" part, obviously. We are now about to see Chapter 1 of the "should not" drama. We'll see just how wrong I was on this as it plays out in the NCAA and in the courts. This could get very, very messy.

What we are seeing is legal wrangling. There are PSU trustees that disagree with the way things were handled. They believe that the PSU president did not have the authority to accept the sanctions without a board vote.

They believe that the Freeh Report contained conclusions that were not correct and that the NCAA using this report as the basis for their actions was flawed.

They are saying that the punishment would affect many, many innocent people.

If this thing gets to State or even Federal Court, there's no telling what could happen. If the NCAA loses badly, then where are we?

I'm not arguing that the sanctions are too lenient, too severe or just right. But when things are done in a panic this is what you get.

My understanding is the President accepted it with the approval of the BOT Chairwoman and a smaller committee of BOT that reported to her.

 

[NKR1978]

I don't see how adds up to "PSU cannot be trusted to do pretty much anything in an honest and forthcoming way". How is anyone being "dishonest" or not "forthcoming"?

What I hear you saying is that you are annoyed that PSU just doesn't shut up and take their medicine. And that if they don't shut up and stop annoying people that the NCAA ought to hit them with even more severe penalties.

I was one on the forum who said that the NCAA should not get heavily involved and I believed they would not ... because of the precedent it would set and the difficulties the NCAA would have policing this sort of criminal behavior. I was wrong on the "would not" part, obviously. We are now about to see Chapter 1 of the "should not" drama. We'll see just how wrong I was on this as it plays out in the NCAA and in the courts. This could get very, very messy.

What we are seeing is legal wrangling. There are PSU trustees that disagree with the way things were handled. They believe that the PSU president did not have the authority to accept the sanctions without a board vote.

They believe that the Freeh Report contained conclusions that were not correct and that the NCAA using this report as the basis for their actions was flawed.

They are saying that the punishment would affect many, many innocent people.

If this thing gets to State or even Federal Court, there's no telling what could happen. If the NCAA loses badly, then where are we?

I'm not arguing that the sanctions are too lenient, too severe or just right. But when things are done in a panic this is what you get.

Yes - I do think the entire PSU community should shut the up and accept the penalties and move on with their lives. They are fortunate that they still have football and there will be no economic impact to their region.

And yes - PSU agreed to penalties. Now they have trustees who are fighting them. That seems dishonest to me. Had the NCAA known that PSU was going to take this course of action, I doubt it would have been so lenient.

Also, from the history of how the penalties came about, I don't think the NCAA rushed to do anything. They seemed pretty thoughtful and deliberate in its actions regarding Penn State.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...-brought-penn-state-football-brink-extinction

 

[javadoc]

What I hear you saying is that you are annoyed that PSU just doesn't shut up and take their medicine. And that if they don't shut up and stop annoying people that the NCAA ought to hit them with even more severe penalties.

Exactly. I make no bones about it. The existing sanctions were a plea deal - they faced worse. If these trustees think they got a raw deal, then by all means let them come back for what they really deserved. At some point, when you got a good plea deal, it behooves one to take medicine and shut up.

The NCAA is an organization, right? And a voluntary one at that. A previous court case established that the NCAA couldn't dictate the financial and contractual terms that conferences struck with TV broadcasters. So how is a court going to "enforce" a voluntary organization's bylaws? What does "due process" even mean in a voluntary organization?

I would be perfectly happy with the NCAA expelling Penn State entirely, if it came to that.

 

[dasher]

Wouldn't make any difference to these arguments. They are independent of the punishment. If the NCAA can't apply the sanctions, they can't apply the Death Penalty either.

We are about to find out --- possibly --- what the powers of the NCAA really are.

no we aren't. PSU will and has accepted their medicine. The pressure on PSU not to press thsi will be immense.

 

[Townie72]

"The sanctions are "excessive and unreasonable" because they inflict "permanent damage to an entire generation of student-athletes and coaches who were innocent of any wrongdoing during their time on campus ..."

This line of reasoning always makes me laugh. Most sanctions the NCAA places on programs are punishing the current players for something that happened in the past, in many cases before any of them were on campus. What is the NCAA supposed to do - not punish a program simply because all of the players are gone from the time of the transgression? Are they not supposed to punish Miami over the Shapiro mess because it would only punish players that had nothing to do with it?
The reasons for NCAA sanctions not just to punish for past violations but also to prevent future violations by making it hurt. If the NCAA can't apply sanctions because of the time period, there really isn't much disincentive to cheat and the NCAA is reduced to little more than a sports promoter.

Perfect. You said it perfectly, "reduced to little more than a sports reporter".

I'd say allowing this to go to the courts is a huge crapshoot for the NCAA. The courts could easily agree with PSUs point on the impact on the innocent.

 

[syr02esq]

I'm not sure how this settlement can be binding without the full Board's approval unless a committee or an individual was authorized to act on behalf of the Board.

 

[Townie72]

no we aren't. PSU will and has accepted their medicine. The pressure on PSU not to press thsi will be immense.

Doesn't sound to me like these trustees are afraid of pressure.

If this gets to court, its going to be played by a whole new set of rules.

 

[Townie72]

Exactly. I make no bones about it. The existing sanctions were a plea deal - they faced worse. If these trustees think they got a raw deal, then by all means let them come back for what they really deserved. At some point, when you got a good plea deal, it behooves one to take medicine and shut up.

The NCAA is an organization, right? And a voluntary one at that. A previous court case established that the NCAA couldn't dictate the financial and contractual terms that conferences struck with TV broadcasters. So how is a court going to "enforce" a voluntary organization's bylaws? What does "due process" even mean in a voluntary organization?

I would be perfectly happy with the NCAA expelling Penn State entirely, if it came to that.

If the courts rule that the NCAA can not impose these sanctions, what do you think the odds are that they can expel PSU from the NCAA?

 

[kingottoiii]

If this thing gets to State or even Federal Court, there's no telling what could happen. If the NCAA loses badly, then where are we?

This is pretty simple

1. The NCAA is a club that PSU has agreed to be part of and abide by that club's rules. Why and how can the Federal courts even look into this?

2. What you continually fail to see over and over again is that PSU is not being punished for criminal acts! They are being punished for an out of control, win at all costs all, image protecting all for the greater good football culture and athletic department. If Sandusky were a psychics professor and this was covered up by the head of the dept and the school Pres then the NCAA would not be doing a damn thing to the FB program. This is silly that you still do not get this. And because this was a football issue, the NCAA has jurisdiction. The are two issues here. One is the criminal acts of Sandusky. The second issue is the decision to protect the football program by not only covering this up but also allowing it to continue. They are being punished for the 2nd one not the 1st. Again they are not punishing the criminal behavior and you just can't get past that.

 

[javadoc]

If the courts rule that the NCAA can not impose these sanctions, what do you think the odds are that they can expel PSU from the NCAA?

So back to my question, how is a court going to rule that a voluntary organization can't apply these penalties? Because it involves deprivation of property (the fine)?

 

[kingottoiii]

If the courts rule that the NCAA can not impose these sanctions, what do you think the odds are that they can expel PSU from the NCAA?

If the courts rule against the NCAA then the NCAA is DEAD. They would never ever be able to enforce a thing again. All hell will break lose. We can go ahead and pay players, take 40 kids each recruiting class, etc.

 

[Townie72]

This is pretty simple

1. The NCAA is a club that PSU has agreed to be part of and abide by that club's rules. Why and how can the Federal courts even look into this?

2. What you continually fail to see over and over again is that PSU is not being punished for criminal acts! They are being punished for an out of control, win at all costs all, image protecting all for the greater good football culture and athletic department. If Sandusky were a psychics professor and this was covered up by the head of the dept and the school Pres then the NCAA would not be doing a damn thing to the FB program. This is silly that you still do not get this. And because this was a football issue, the NCAA has jurisdiction. The are two issues here. One is the criminal acts of Sandusky. The second issue is the decision to protect the football program by not only covering this up but also allowing it to continue. They are being punished for the 2nd one not the 1st. Again they are not punishing the criminal behavior and you just can't get past that.

The failure to report --- the cover up --- were illegal acts also.

 

[kingottoiii]

Perfect. You said it perfectly, "reduced to little more than a sports reporter".

I'd say allowing this to go to the courts is a huge crapshoot for the NCAA. The courts could easily agree with PSUs point on the impact on the innocent.

EVERY NCAA sanction impact innocent people. If the courts rule against the NCAA, then they will NEVER be able to hand out another sanction.

 

[kingottoiii]

The failure to report --- the cover up --- were illegal acts also.

Either you are too dumb to get it or are trolling.