PSU Trustees

[CarolinaCuse]

Except that the NCAA did not follow its own established process for this. Instead they substituted the Freeh effort. That might be a good idea. But departing from an established process is a red flag in a legal suit.

Except there have been other situations where institutions have investigated alleged NCAA violations and then disclosed the results to the NCAA who then (A) accepts the institutions findings (and resulting self-impose sanctions); (B) imposes sanctions independently; or (C) accepts institutions sanctions while adding more sanctions due to severity.

PSU hired Freeh to investigate. Freeh was their independent investigation. The NCAA accepted PSU's investigation and imposed sanctions. What they didn't do is wait for PSU to self-impose sanctions. A question can be made as to whether PSU would have self-imposed any sanctions to the football program. I say no - which is the reason why the NCAA probably felt they needed to act.

Oh, and the President and execs of the BOT signed off on the NCAA sanctions. In my mind, the renegade BOT members who don't like the sanctions should raise this as a procedural objection. If the President and BOT were out of line then PSU should file lawsuit.

My other thought - the bs claim in the lawsuit that states, "permanent damage to an entire generation of student-athletes and coaches who were innocent of any wrongdoing during their time on campus...". What this BOT member doesn't like that it forces the institution to approach intercollegiate athletics at it's most purist form (developing student-athletes) rather than competitive dominance and all that goes with that culture.

 

[Townie72]

" What this BOT member doesn't like that it forces the institution to approach intercollegiate athletics at it's most purist form (developing student-athletes) rather than competitive dominance and all that goes with that culture.

Well, if they are successful in getting PSU to "approach intercollegiate athletics at it's most purist form (developing student-athletes)" then PSU is going to be very lonely in Division I. They ought to start to play Amherst and Williams and schools that try to follow athletics in its purest form.

DI football is a business. Its a huge source of revenue for these universities, And in the struggle to become and stay competitive most of these schools are holding their noses. Absent the current scandal, I don't PSU is any more guilty of seeking "competitive dominance" than anywhere else.

 

[rrlbees]

If this goes into court, the NCAA will do what the court decides it can do.

So you really think the courts now want to become the overseer of the NCAA and the actions they take?

 

[CarolinaCuse]

Well, if they are successful in getting PSU to "approach intercollegiate athletics at it's most purist form (developing student-athletes)" then PSU is going to be very lonely in Division I. They ought to start to play Amherst and Williams and schools that try to follow athletics in its purest form.

DI football is a business. Its a huge source of revenue for these universities, And in the struggle to become and stay competitive most of these schools are holding their noses. Absent the current scandal, I don't PSU is any more guilty of seeking "competitive dominance" than anywhere else.

Of course it's a business. All of higher ed is business (some aspects of it are obviously more profitable than others). If you think that competitive schools don't have the development of the student-athlete as an outcome - well, that's naive. It's a continuum - Ohio State is at one end of the spectrum and Oberlin is at the other end (and everyone else is in between).

The PSU trustee doesn't like that their beloved program will be handicapped. Really, what changes aside from economics? They'll still have a team. Fans can still support them. It impacts their competitiveness. Whoopty doo. It'll be back at some point.

The point is that the Trustee's rationale is based largely on disagreements with how institution signed off on sanctions that effect their competitiveness - not the ultimate outcome of why they are an institution.

 

[retro44]

Even I am tired of this conversation.

Suffice it to say, we will see what happens. The fat lady has not yet sung.

the fat lady would have not been raped either

 

[Townie72]

So you really think the courts now want to become the overseer of the NCAA and the actions they take?

You gotta be kidding.

The courts do what the courts do. The NCAA isn't any different to them then competing pharma companies or litigants in a divorce. Or UConn et al suing BC and the ACC.

There's a dispute among parties. That's what court do and they have a whole system --- different from the NCAA's --- to deal with just about everything.

 

[rrlbees]

You gotta be kidding.

The courts do what the courts do. The NCAA isn't any different to them then competing pharma companies or litigants in a divorce. Or UConn et al suing BC and the ACC.

There's a dispute among parties. That's what court do and they have a whole system --- different from the NCAA's --- to deal with just about everything.

And they toss out things every day.

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[Townie72]

And they toss out things every day.

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Well they allowed the goofy UConn suit to wind its way through the system before BC had to pay the $1M the Big East contract called for.

They very well could throw this out. Or the NCAA might lose badly. Who knows?

 

[Townie72]

Many on this thread aren't going to like this.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8194445

Rush to judgement? Media-generated public pressure? Establishing of precedents the NCAA is poorly equipped to support?

OK, now you can start off attacking Musburger's credibility and motives. That's generally the first move, isn't it?

 

[rrlbees]

Many on this thread aren't going to like this.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8194445

Rush to judgement? Media-generated public pressure? Establishing of precedents the NCAA is poorly equipped to support?

OK, now you can start off attacking Musburger's credibility and motives. That's generally the first move, isn't it?

Why should we care one way or another? Yes Brent is respected but its his opinion like yours and mine.

If you are looking for media opinion to support your opinion, let me know because I can link you to many who said much the same as Brent, before and after the sanctions came out.

BTW, I can also link you to just as many if not more, of media folks saying the NCAA dis the right thing and maybe should have done more.

As to Brent specifically, more than any other media he has been outspoken about this in many forums even appearing on others shows. But the context is that he has been a PedSt and Pedterno shill forever.

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[Townie72]

Why should we care one way or another? Yes Brent is respected but its his opinion like yours and mine.

If you are looking for media opinion to support your opinion, let me know because I can link you to many who said much the same as Brent, before and after the sanctions came out.

BTW, I can also link you to just as many if not more, of media folks saying the NCAA dis the right thing and maybe should have done more.

As to Brent specifically, more than any other media he has been outspoken about this in many forums even appearing on others shows. But the context is that he has been a PedSt and Pedterno shill forever.

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Well, I guess we shouldn't care. I just thought the "nuke PSU crowd" might want to see an other opinion on what the NCAA did and the process that was used.

My point continues to be that if this agreement based on the process used ever gets in a courtroom there's no telling what will come out the back end. One possible outcome could be the restricting of the NCAA's seemingly broad charter and enforcement policies.

By the way, I knew I wouldn't be disappointed when I said that attacking the credibility of the speaker would be the first thing we'd hear. (" ... he has been a PedSt and Pedterno shill forever".)

 

[rrlbees]

Well, I guess we shouldn't care. I just thought the "nuke PSU crowd" might want to see an other opinion on what the NCAA did and the process that was used.

My point continues to be that if this agreement based on the process used ever gets in a courtroom there's no telling what will come out the back end. One possible outcome could be the restricting of the NCAA's seemingly broad charter and enforcement policies.

By the way, I knew I wouldn't be disappointed when I said that attacking the credibility of the speaker would be the first thing we'd hear. (" ... he has been a PedSt and Pedterno shill forever".)

Where did I attack his credibility? He is credible. But so are other media who disagree with him. Its his and their opinion, so credibility doesn't come into much play as it would when stating facts or a rumor. My opinion is pretty credible too as is yours. Opinions are neither right nor wrong.

As to the shill comment, it is made in the context of how much he has spoken out about this and the fact he has always been one of Pedternos biggest admirers, even giving speeches at PedSt. But still, that doesn't make his opinion any less. But he has also gone on record as saying Pedterno and the football program are completely innocent. It is again his opinion but a pretty stupid one in my opinion.

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[tipphill]

Where did I attack his credibility? He is credible. But so are other media who disagree with him. Its his and their opinion, so credibility doesn't come into much play as it would when stating facts or a rumor. My opinion is pretty credible too as is yours. Opinions are neither right nor wrong.

As to the shill comment, it is made in the context of how much he has spoken out about this and the fact he has always been one of Pedternos biggest admirers, even giving speeches at PedSt. But still, that doesn't make his opinion any less. But he has also gone on record as saying Pedterno and the football program are completely innocent. It is again his opinion but a pretty stupid one in my opinion.

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i have zero tolerance for front runner,brent. bad announcer,no character to speak of. please compare dick schapp, curt gowdy, keith jackson etal, they make munsberger look horribly unprofessional, always goes with the front runner and in reality has no substance

 

[Townie72]

i have zero tolerance for front runner,brent. bad announcer,no character to speak of. please compare dick schapp, curt gowdy, keith jackson etal, they make munsberger look horribly unprofessional, always goes with the front runner and in reality has no substance

But what about the points he made about the NCAA and PSU? Or is he so bad in your opinion that nothing he would ever say could have any validity?

By the way, IMHO, Curt Gowdy was a windbag who never said an intelligent thing I ever heard. A total empty suit propped up by color guys like Al DeRogatais. The only guy he was not worse than was Howard Cosell. Gowdy was the voice over on the completely phony American Sportsman TV show that featured adventures like sports celebrities with professional guides shooting big horn sheep from 200 yds with Weatherby rifiles equipped with precision scopes. A feat requiring not a single scintilla of marksmanship.

 

[tipphill]

But what about the points he made about the NCAA and PSU? Or is he so bad in your opinion that nothing he would ever say could have any validity?

By the way, IMHO, Curt Gowdy was a windbag who never said an intelligent thing I ever heard. A total empty suit propped up by color guys like Al DeRogatais. The only guy he was not worse than was Howard Cosell. Gowdy was the voice over on the completely phony American Sportsman TV show that featured adventures like sports celebrities with professional guides shooting big horn sheep from 200 yds with Weatherby rifiles equipped with precision scopes. A feat requiring not a single scintilla of marksmanship.

this reply made me lol---well written!!!!

 

[rrlbees]

Now being sold at the student bookstore.

http://twitpic.com/ah277i

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[TheOrangeBuddha]

Now being sold at the student bookstore.

http://twitpic.com/ah277i

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That is extremely bad form. Unbelievable really. Not that a shirt exists and is being sold to PedState fans, but that the university is associated with its sale - unbelievable.

 

[javadoc]

That is extremely bad form. Unbelievable really. Not that a shirt exists and is being sold to PedState fans, but that the university is associated with its sale - unbelievable.

If you are expecting to find Institutional Control there, you are in for a letdown.

 

[NKR1978]

Now being sold at the student bookstore.

http://twitpic.com/ah277i

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Those are going to look great on tv for their opener against Ohio.

It's almost becoming a joke. Just when you think they've hit bottom in their depravity, they dig a little lower.

 

[Bayside44]

I saw two teenage kids in downtown DC wearing pro PSU shirts today...one was an outline of Joe Pa's face, stating somethnig to the effect of, because if him, there is us. Kid was walking with his dad - I did a double take and the pop gave me a dirty look.

 

[RF2044]

That is extremely bad form. Unbelievable really. Not that a shirt exists and is being sold to PedState fans, but that the university is associated with its sale - unbelievable.

It's really time for the NCAA to scorch the earth.

That culture is too far gone to redeem.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Attendance at a private school is a contract, no? That is the nexus to legal enforcement of due process. Is membership and participation in the NCAA contractual?

PSU had all the due process it wanted. It opted out of the process to take the deal. This is like a criminal taking a plea bargain then arguing the case should be dismissed because he didn't get a trial.

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[All4SU]

I saw two teenage kids in downtown DC wearing pro PSU shirts today...one was an outline of Joe Pa's face, stating somethnig to the effect of, because if him, there is us. Kid was walking with his dad - I did a double take and the pop gave me a dirty look.

I hope it was his son, and not just some kid he picked up.