Purse Strings / Future

[qdawgg]

Thank you for the positive post. I didn't have anything to be thankful for this holiday break... until now.

 

[cuse309]

Earlier this year I said SU would be lucky to get much last 2-10. I was told I was a troll and a hater, but I digress. At 3-8 entering BC as an underdog to an ACC winless team, a reasonable person would guess that SU ends the season 3-9.

Shafer produced a 2-13 ACC record and obviously lost control of the team. His dismissal is probably the best thing that has happened to the program this year. Now, SU has to decide of they are serious about football, or just masquerading around.

To compete in the ACC SU will have to hire a big coach with a big price tag. The salaries they have paid in the past need to be doubled to attract a coach that would be willing to come to a desperate program and try to build something, anything, better than 3 win seasons.

Syracuse has a number of factors piling up agaisnt it for recruiting, both coaches and players.

-Poor attendance. The Dome is already a small venue and the sparse attendance doesn't help. Obviously winning some games will help this aspect of the puzzle, but so will a big name head coach.

-Location. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that Syracuse is the only ACC team north of the Mason Dixon Line, save BC. SU is competing against southern schools for southern recruits. Getting a blue chip athlete to pick down and out Syracuse over FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, and other schools, including neighboring competition from the SEC will continue to make recruiting difficult. A big name coach will help that, but so will winning some games.

TV Coverage. I live in the south and coverage for Syracuse games can be problematic. Sure, when they play Clemson and FSU the games are broadcast, but the majority of their games are only available on networks that most of the kids they are trying to recruit don't have easy access to.

Lack of tradition. Some will disagree with me, but this is a serious issue. The number 44 needs to be issued out again. These funky, Oregon wanna be Nike uniforms need to be sent to the incinerator, along with the matte navy blue and sparkling mettalic orange helmets. The 44 degree line thing through the numbers was interesting, however I find myself desperately wishing they would return to the old standby, orange with blue and white stripes, navy jerseys and orange pants. That uniform was iconic and particular to Syracuse. Now we're just trying to be like everyone else. Last time I checked, most of the top rated programs in the nation wear the same thing year in and year out with minor changes because of tradition and image.

We are the Orangemen. Thus politically correct issue is a minor one and only listed for my own displeasure and wish to voice my own opinion. Most recruits won't care if the team is called the Hairy Beavers as long as they get TV coverage, a full scholarship, playing time, and a shot at the NFL.

Inner administration. SU athletics needs to decide what it wants to do. Are we going to compete in football? Or, are we going to struggle through football season only to wait until basketball starts up (which hasn't looked too hot lately, compared to the teams of years past)? Joining the ACC was probably a bad idea. The American Conference would have been a better choice. We aren't in that situation, so SU needs to decide if they will pay out the money for football, or keep pretending.

Pretty valid points..that have already been discussed countless times. I see you have 6 posts. You used 1/6th of your posting history to basically say "nana nana boo boo...I told you so."
Of course opening the checkbook would be huge. Based on history, I don't see it happening. Never have before. Like D. McPherson said...Syracuse as an institution is not the type of place that will shell out the bucks for a big time football coach. It's just not a priority at Syracuse. I wish he was wrong.
Here is a question though. How much influence, if any, does Coyle have over what his budget will be in selecting a staff?
Sometimes I wonder if he was chosen, because Syracuse has a similar budget allocated for football that is similar to Boise. Could he have been the man because they liked what he did with a similar budget? If he can maintain Boise as a relevant school, perhaps the thinking was he could do this here. If that's the case, I think we know that Syracuse isn't paying 4-5 mil for a coach.

 

[OnlyOrange]

So SU should continue to be destroyed in the ACC? They can't compete for the recruits that the southern teams get! In order to he competitive, SU has to get blue chip recruits. Do some blue chippers from from PA and OH? Sure. Do more come from Georgia, Alabama, Florida, yes. Syracuse is a struggling northern school competing agaisnt big schools in the south with draw and recruiting. These players don't care about sight lines and acoustics. They care about TV coverage and being competitive for big bowl games.

For those of you that think I was excited when the season played out pretty much just the way I predicted it to, you're wrong. I watched every game except the NC State game. Most of them being recorded and watched later because of a work scheudle. I hoped and hoped that we would make a bowl game. But reality is reality.

2.5M for a coach? Jokes. Try like 4 or 5, at least 3.5M to find the coach they need. Not only is SU competing with ACC schools for recruits, they are competing with the SEC.

As for losing control of the team- 2 players ejected and multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on himself. Maybe he lost control of himself more than the team, but that is still unacceptable performance. Heck he left Dungey in when they were down 31 points because he thought they could come back. Is he smoking crack?

 

[PAcuse]

So SU should continue to be destroyed in the ACC? They can't compete for the recruits that the southern teams get! In order to he competitive, SU has to get blue chip recruits. Do some blue chippers from from PA and OH? Sure. Do more come from Georgia, Alabama, Florida, yes. Syracuse is a struggling northern school competing agaisnt big schools in the south with draw and recruiting. These players don't care about sight lines and acoustics. They care about TV coverage and being competitive for big bowl games.

For those of you that think I was excited when the season played out pretty much just the way I predicted it to, you're wrong. I watched every game except the NC State game. Most of them being recorded and watched later because of a work scheudle. I hoped and hoped that we would make a bowl game. But reality is reality.

2.5M for a coach? Jokes. Try like 4 or 5, at least 3.5M to find the coach they need. Not only is SU competing with ACC schools for recruits, they are competing with the SEC.

As for losing control of the team- 2 players ejected and multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on himself. Maybe he lost control of himself more than the team, but that is still unacceptable performance. Heck he left Dungey in when they were down 31 points because he thought they could come back. Is he smoking crack?

Bud is this you?
Dude relax have a beer/wine/soda whatever.
Happy times are a coming, sit back and watch

 

[OnlyOrange]

Pretty valid points..that have already been discussed countless times. I see you have 6 posts. You used 1/6th of your posting history to basically say "nana nana boo boo...I told you so."
Of course opening the checkbook would be huge. Based on history, I don't see it happening. Never have before. Like D. McPherson said...Syracuse as an institution is not the type of place that will shell out the bucks for a big time football coach. It's just not a priority at Syracuse. I wish he was wrong.
Here is a question though. How much influence, if any, does Coyle have over what his budget will be in selecting a staff?
Sometimes I wonder if he was chosen, because Syracuse has a similar budget allocated for football that is similar to Boise. Could he have been the man because they liked what he did with a similar budget? If he can maintain Boise as a relevant school, perhaps the thinking was he could do this here. If that's the case, I think we know that Syracuse isn't paying 4-5 mil for a coach.

That could be apart of why they chose Coyle. However, if Syracuse as an institution isn't concerned with football as a priority and spending the money to hire a big coach is out of the question, why join the ACC? Football is a main revenue generating sport. If that is true, then why bother firing a coach because of performance?

 

[OnlyOrange]

Bud is this you?
Dude relax have a beer/wine/soda whatever.
Happy times are a coming, sit back and watch

Good Things are Coming B-) one can hope!

 

[cusefan88]

FWIW I do know Syverud is a big football fan, spent a lot of time at Michigan and wants football to be good here.

Hope that means they will pay more money because really that will give SU the best chance to improve.

 

[TheCusian]

So SU should continue to be destroyed in the ACC? They can't compete for the recruits that the southern teams get! In order to he competitive, SU has to get blue chip recruits. Do some blue chippers from from PA and OH? Sure. Do more come from Georgia, Alabama, Florida, yes. Syracuse is a struggling northern school competing agaisnt big schools in the south with draw and recruiting. These players don't care about sight lines and acoustics. They care about TV coverage and being competitive for big bowl games. For those of you that think I was excited when the season played out pretty much just the way I predicted it to, you're wrong. I watched every game except the NC State game. Most of them being recorded and watched later because of a work scheudle. I hoped and hoped that we would make a bowl game. But reality is reality. 2.5M for a coach? Jokes. Try like 4 or 5, at least 3.5M to find the coach they need. Not only is SU competing with ACC schools for recruits, they are competing with the SEC. As for losing control of the team- 2 players ejected and multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on himself. Maybe he lost control of himself more than the team, but that is still unacceptable performance. Heck he left Dungey in when they were down 31 points because he thought they could come back. Is he smoking crack?

In order to win the ACC we need stud recruits. In order to be competitive we need good recruits and good coaching.

Everything else in your post is noise.

 

[Scooch]

I stopped reading the original post when it said we have to hire a big coach with a big price tag.

That's stupid.

We need to hire a good coach. Period. The rest will work itself out.

 

[billsin01]

Even considering not moving to the ACC is laughable.

Agree, generally, but i think that's a separate question from whether we fall in the 'winner' or 'loser' category in the realignment stuff.

 

[billsin01]

I stopped reading the original post when it said we have to hire a big coach with a big price tag.

That's stupid.

We need to hire a good coach. Period. The rest will work itself out.

I think coaches are going to come with much higher price tags going forward. Even bad coaches will cost much more than we are used to paying. That is something that is a factor, IMO, b/c we've never wanted to spend on a coach and we will probably generally have to pay more to lure a coach away from a decent gig and certainly if we hope to beat out a fellow P5 program for one.

 

[billsin01]

Ironically, if we had joined the American Conference, we'd be keeping Shafer as coach for a while because we couldn't afford a buyout, and we wouldn't be offering $2.5 mil to the next guy.

I'm pretty sure we could buy him out regardless. Not to mention he only would have a year left on his deal, so I doubt he'd be around for 'a while'

 

[cuse309]

So SU should continue to be destroyed in the ACC? They can't compete for the recruits that the southern teams get! In order to he competitive, SU has to get blue chip recruits. Do some blue chippers from from PA and OH? Sure. Do more come from Georgia, Alabama, Florida, yes. Syracuse is a struggling northern school competing agaisnt big schools in the south with draw and recruiting. These players don't care about sight lines and acoustics. They care about TV coverage and being competitive for big bowl games.

For those of you that think I was excited when the season played out pretty much just the way I predicted it to, you're wrong. I watched every game except the NC State game. Most of them being recorded and watched later because of a work scheudle. I hoped and hoped that we would make a bowl game. But reality is reality.

2.5M for a coach? Jokes. Try like 4 or 5, at least 3.5M to find the coach they need. Not only is SU competing with ACC schools for recruits, they are competing with the SEC.

As for losing control of the team- 2 players ejected and multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on himself. Maybe he lost control of himself more than the team, but that is still unacceptable performance. Heck he left Dungey in when they were down 31 points because he thought they could come back. Is he smoking crack?

I'm not sure people are saying you're wrong about opening the checkbook up. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that It will not happen, so in essence you, at this point are:

 

[WoadBlue]

Earlier this year I said SU would be lucky to get much last 2-10. I was told I was a troll and a hater, but I digress. At 3-8 entering BC as an underdog to an ACC winless team, a reasonable person would guess that SU ends the season 3-9.

Shafer produced a 2-13 ACC record and obviously lost control of the team. His dismissal is probably the best thing that has happened to the program this year. Now, SU has to decide of they are serious about football, or just masquerading around.

To compete in the ACC SU will have to hire a big coach with a big price tag. The salaries they have paid in the past need to be doubled to attract a coach that would be willing to come to a desperate program and try to build something, anything, better than 3 win seasons.

Syracuse has a number of factors piling up agaisnt it for recruiting, both coaches and players.

-Poor attendance. The Dome is already a small venue and the sparse attendance doesn't help. Obviously winning some games will help this aspect of the puzzle, but so will a big name head coach.

-Location. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that Syracuse is the only ACC team north of the Mason Dixon Line, save BC. SU is competing against southern schools for southern recruits. Getting a blue chip athlete to pick down and out Syracuse over FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, and other schools, including neighboring competition from the SEC will continue to make recruiting difficult. A big name coach will help that, but so will winning some games.

TV Coverage. I live in the south and coverage for Syracuse games can be problematic. Sure, when they play Clemson and FSU the games are broadcast, but the majority of their games are only available on networks that most of the kids they are trying to recruit don't have easy access to.

Lack of tradition. Some will disagree with me, but this is a serious issue. The number 44 needs to be issued out again. These funky, Oregon wanna be Nike uniforms need to be sent to the incinerator, along with the matte navy blue and sparkling mettalic orange helmets. The 44 degree line thing through the numbers was interesting, however I find myself desperately wishing they would return to the old standby, orange with blue and white stripes, navy jerseys and orange pants. That uniform was iconic and particular to Syracuse. Now we're just trying to be like everyone else. Last time I checked, most of the top rated programs in the nation wear the same thing year in and year out with minor changes because of tradition and image.

We are the Orangemen. Thus politically correct issue is a minor one and only listed for my own displeasure and wish to voice my own opinion. Most recruits won't care if the team is called the Hairy Beavers as long as they get TV coverage, a full scholarship, playing time, and a shot at the NFL.

Inner administration. SU athletics needs to decide what it wants to do. Are we going to compete in football? Or, are we going to struggle through football season only to wait until basketball starts up (which hasn't looked too hot lately, compared to the teams of years past)? Joining the ACC was probably a bad idea. The American Conference would have been a better choice. We aren't in that situation, so SU needs to decide if they will pay out the money for football, or keep pretending.

Poor attendance at college football, save for Penn St, is endemic to the northeast. It is a major reason no BE football could work long term without Penn St and either 2 or more teams from the South. For Syracuse, that can remedied only by winning and with an exciting offense. The latter should be a focus in hiring the new HC and staff.

I think Syracuse must act fully to become 'New York's team,' and that requires playing 1 game inside the NYC TV market each year. That will work best if the game is against a name foe: ND is the best example. I would have all Cuse games vs. ND be in NYC, if ND will bite. ND plays a Shamrock series (meaning 1 ND 'Home' at a neutral site) each year. I would agree to play ND always at Giants Stadium if ND would also agree. That would be a BIG game for Cuse inside the NYC TV market every third year.

Pitt is north of the Mason-Dixon line.

The only reason Cuse would be better off in the AAC is if the school intends to flounder in football. And even then, being AAC would punish basketball and lacrosse and other sports. That's the kind of talk that a UConn fan pretending to be a Cuse fan would promote, hoping Cuse would swap places.

 

[WoadBlue]

I'm not sure people are saying you're wrong about opening the checkbook up. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that It will not happen, so in essence you, at this point are:

Syracuse not opening the check book means the AD must take chances on young coaches or someone like Orgeron who wants a shot as a P5 HC. It may mean that the top AAC and MAC HCs will not want your job because of money.

 

[cuse309]

Syracuse not opening the check book means the AD must take chances on young coaches or someone like Orgeron who wants a shot as a P5 HC. It may mean that the top AAC and MAC HCs will not want your job because of money.

correct.

 

[dasher]

That could be apart of why they chose Coyle. However, if Syracuse as an institution isn't concerned with football as a priority and spending the money to hire a big coach is out of the question, why join the ACC? Football is a main revenue generating sport. If that is true, then why bother firing a coach because of performance?

I was at syracuse in the 70's. People were saying the same thing. only then it was drop down to D-2. Of course we went on a 15 year run and beat anyone who is any good in college football.

 

[OrangePA]

Even considering not moving to the ACC is laughable.

It should have happened in 2003 when Jake thought he had a deal with Swofford.

 

[billsin01]

The only reason Cuse would be better off in the AAC is if the school intends to flounder in football. And even then, being AAC would punish basketball and lacrosse and other sports. That's the kind of talk that a UConn fan pretending to be a Cuse fan would promote, hoping Cuse would swap places.

I'm not sure I really agree. I mean, the theory makes sense, yes. And I agree on the other sports (not hoops or lacrosse), though I'm not really sure I care about them at all.

But there are probably a dozen non-power 5 teams who have out-performed us in the past 15 years. We would switch places with Boise or TCU (prior to the Big 12 move) in a cocaine heartbeat. Utah as well. Other schools haven't had the sustained success but have absolutely been credible football programs.

UConn was the undisputed loser of the realignment stuff and they are absolutely fine. What do they look like 10 years from now? I suppose that's a better question.

But this general notion that is either (or both): A) We are much better off in a tangible way being in the ACC for football and B) The program would wither and die without the ACC -- is not really true. We have more money, we play teams with bigger names and theoretically, yes, we are in a better spot to compete for a national title. But in terms of being a legit program that will go out and field competitive teams year-in and year-out -- I'm not so sure where we are matters in that way.

Another thing that will be interesting to watch is whether or not we grow to be more attached to this conference. Obviously we should become more attached in time. But for now, I'd argue that "better" competition hasn't meant more invested fans in any way, shape or form -- as this article shows.

So at the end of the day, sure we basically had to move. Whether it -- the move itself -- has a positive effect on the program is much more debatable than people believe. What it did was give the football program more money, potentially a bit more cache and a theoretical path to a national title. What the move didn't do was ensure that the university would put that money back into the program, make winning games remotely easier (despite all the recruits that were going to be dying to play for us b/c we are a P5 school), or generate any added interest from a struggling fan base.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

OP's reaction when the season went his way
View attachment 53942

I love this.

 

[orangepassion]

2.5 Million isn't nothing. That's plenty of money to get a good candidate