PUT ALL THE RESOURCES INTO DAN MULLEN

[rrlbees]

Yeah, but you apparently are ignoring his main point. It's like a CEO in "tough" times saying I didn't take my annual $2M salary this year. Meanwhile, cashing in his/her $5M of stock options. Moreover, increase their future wealth/worth by being one of the main beneficiaries of the stock repurchasing/buyback system for those in such position.

I’m not ignoring anything. You might want to go back to my original comment in response before some of you turned it sideways.

 

[PhatOrange]

Mullen is an X’s and O’s guy who dislikes recruiting and isn’t a good program builder. He’s prob more of an elite OC.

Pass.

Where does the not a good recruiter crap come from?

Not to mention this is such a silly thing that people latch onto, the same holds true for Marrone. Head coaches don’t do the recruiting the assistant coaches do all the recruiting.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Retaining in the time of transfer portals is impossible. Better is possible, sure.

I’m not sure where our baseline will be on transfers year to year and you’re not either.

You're right. I'm looking backward when I talk about the numbers, not forward.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Where does the not a good recruiter crap come from?

He "only" pulled one Top 10 class, and averaged (horrors!) having his classes ranked in the teens nationally.

 

[PhatOrange]

He "only" pulled one Top 10 class, and averaged (horrors!) having his classes ranked in the teens nationally.

He actually pulled two while at Florida and I want to say he had a number 11 class to

 

[tep624]

Note: The Athletic reports that Mullen's downfall at Florida was his inability to recruit. If you can't recruit effectively at a place like the University of Florida, you're going to have a real hard time recruiting at Syracuse University.

Recruiting at a SEC program and the expectations that come with that are dramatically different than recruiting here. Being a poor recruiter there is not finishing in the top 5 or 10 in recruiting every year. We can't even crack the top 50 right now.

 

[SWC75]

Back in the Sack Mac days, some guy called into a post-game show, shouted "Hire Lou Holt!" (sic) I wonder if he's on this thread...

Either Dan Mullen was a good recruiter who didn't develop his players to their potential or he's not a good recruiter and coached 'em up. Or he's a guy who went 34-15 in a place where that isn't good enough.

(I notice Mullen is a Wagner grad. Maybe he can explain how they beat VCU in basketball).

The thing about the ACC revenue is that it gives the school more money to do stuff but it gives us no competitive advantage over other ACC schools that are getting the same money.

 

[orangepassion]

Mullen is an X’s and O’s guy who dislikes recruiting and isn’t a good program builder. He’s prob more of an elite OC.

Pass.

He did an excellent job at MSU, which is a program more similar to us. He would be an excellent hire

 

[bothsocksup]

Why is this a thread. This guy is not coming here

 

[elimunelson]

Back in the Sack Mac days, some guy called into a post-game show, shouted "Hire Lou Holt!" (sic) I wonder if he's on this thread...

Either Dan Mullen was a good recruiter who didn't develop his players to their potential or he's not a good recruiter and coached 'em up. Or he's a guy who went 34-15 in a place where that isn't good enough.

(I notice Mullen is a Wagner grad. Maybe he can explain how they beat VCU in basketball).

The thing about the ACC revenue is that it gives the school more money to do stuff but it gives us no competitive advantage over other ACC schools that are getting the same money.

Other ACC schools push the ejection button faster though so there is money.

I refuse to believe SU has money issues no matter the loss of athletics revenue. I feel like SU perpetually has money issues.

 

[qdawgg]

Mullen is an X’s and O’s guy who dislikes recruiting and isn’t a good program builder. He’s prob more of an elite OC.

Pass.

As you would say, please provide the research to support this argument please.

 

[FasterCuse]

Worth isn’t revenue. Schools aren’t going to sell buildings nor use endowments. I’ll repeat, colleges lost $2B in revenue. The SEC was even borrowing money. It’s not as easy as we have tons of money we can afford to do anything.

Syracuse's financial reports are publicly available to anyone. Revenue was down about 86 million or 9%. However expenses were down about the same amount, and the endowment grew at a much faster clip than normal which means there is more to draw from based on the Yale formula in future years. Syracuse isn't hurting for money.

Annual Financial Reports - CFO – Syracuse University

bfas.syr.edu

Now do they use that money for a buyout is another question? I don't think they do. I think they tout the new facilities and ride Dino one more year in hopes he can catch lightening in a bottle one more time. When he doesn't they'll pull the trigger at the 3/4 point next season and bring in the whoever is the hot MAC coach. Pay him the same Dino is making now which by then will be below the median in P5 salaries, and save themselves about 5M of buy out money.

 

[rrlbees]

Syracuse's financial reports are publicly available to anyone. Revenue was down about 86 million or 9%. However expenses were down about the same amount, and the endowment grew at a much faster clip than normal which means there is more to draw from based on the Yale formula in future years. Syracuse isn't hurting for money.

Annual Financial Reports - CFO – Syracuse University

bfas.syr.edu

Now do they use that money for a buyout is another question? I don't think they do. I think they tout the new facilities and ride Dino one more year in hopes he can catch lightening in a bottle one more time. When he doesn't they'll pull the trigger at the 3/4 point next season and bring in the whoever is the hot MAC coach. Pay him the same Dino is making now which by then will be below the median in P5 salaries, and save themselves about 5M of buy out money.

I’m not talking endowments and the like. I’m talking athletics.

 

[elimunelson]

Syracuse's financial reports are publicly available to anyone. Revenue was down about 86 million or 9%. However expenses were down about the same amount, and the endowment grew at a much faster clip than normal which means there is more to draw from based on the Yale formula in future years. Syracuse isn't hurting for money.

Annual Financial Reports - CFO – Syracuse University

bfas.syr.edu

Now do they use that money for a buyout is another question? I don't think they do. I think they tout the new facilities and ride Dino one more year in hopes he can catch lightening in a bottle one more time. When he doesn't they'll pull the trigger at the 3/4 point next season and bring in the whoever is the hot MAC coach. Pay him the same Dino is making now which by then will be below the median in P5 salaries, and save themselves about 5M of buy out money.

It’s a private school they can do what they want I would think.

The schools marketing budget should be tied to football and hoops bc kids make decisions based on those programs (pathetically I did).

School needs to look at it holistically because they are premier brands. I assume they do but the decisions on coaches shouldn’t be tied to one year of Covid. Foolish and really near sighed for any corporation

 

[tep624]

Where does the not a good recruiter crap come from?

Not to mention this is such a silly thing that people latch onto, the same holds true for Marrone. Head coaches don’t do the recruiting the assistant coaches do all the recruiting.

It comes from someone reading a buzzword article and then making it gospel. That's where it comes from.

He had top 20 recruiting classes his first 2 years out of the gate at Miss St and was the 2014 SEC coach of the year, but the guy isn't a competent HC who can't recruit.

Meanwhile we're on losing season 5 of 6 with our current HC who's highest rated recruiting class was in the 50's, and we're worried about Dan Mullen recruiting here. It's bizarre some of the arguments that get manufactured in order to promote retaining Dino.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If you have an asset worth hundreds of millions of dollars, you should be able to get money out of that asset that you intend on investing back into that asset. Sell stocks, mortgage future revenue, that's what businesses do.

I’ll jump in the rabbit hole with you:
A. Can you show me where I can buy stock in Syracuse University?
B. The future revenues are needed for Title IX requirements, mainly everything is equal. They are needed to maintain the ever growing number of facilities. There may be some monetary repercussions from Hilsman’s behaviors, who knows.
C. People in the seats mean relatively very, very little to the bottom line of FB and BB.
D. Going to bowl games is usually an economic loss leader.
E. You are very passionate about this: perhaps you can make a large, published contribution and ear-mark it only for hiring Dan Mullen. Others may follow, and there you have the money.

 

[CousCuse]

I’ll jump in the rabbit hole with you:
A. Can you show me where I can buy stock in Syracuse University?
B. The future revenues are needed for Title IX requirements, mainly everything is equal. They are needed to maintain the ever growing number of facilities. There may be some monetary repercussions from Hilsman’s behaviors, who knows.
C. People in the seats mean relatively very, very little to the bottom line of FB and BB.
D. Going to bowl games is usually an economic loss leader.
E. You are very passionate about this: perhaps you can make a large, published contribution and ear-mark it only for hiring Dan Mullen. Others may follow, and there you have the money.

By the quirks of how football developed, colleges and universities being first the place football was played and the pro leagues coming much later and them acting as the minor leagues for player development which stopped minor leagues from coming about. Fast forward to the present where the college game has humongous revenues and these colleges find themselves owning very valuable and highly lucrative professional franchises. How the institutions structure this and make a new model is a complicated legal process that needs to occur. This is not college sports, it is professional sports.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I’ll jump in the rabbit hole with you:
A. Can you show me where I can buy stock in Syracuse University?
B. The future revenues are needed for Title IX requirements, mainly everything is equal. They are needed to maintain the ever growing number of facilities. There may be some monetary repercussions from Hilsman’s behaviors, who knows.
C. People in the seats mean relatively very, very little to the bottom line of FB and BB.
D. Going to bowl games is usually an economic loss leader.
E. You are very passionate about this: perhaps you can make a large, published contribution and ear-mark it only for hiring Dan Mullen. Others may follow, and there you have the money.

C. is not correct with respect to basketball. Having 20 home games per year puts serious money in the bank for SU. That's why we are among the top earners in college hoops.

 

[SWC75]

By the quirks of how football developed, colleges and universities being first the place football was played and the pro leagues coming much later and them acting as the minor leagues for player development which stopped minor leagues from coming about. Fast forward to the present where the college game has humongous revenues and these colleges find themselves owning very valuable and highly lucrative professional franchises. How the institutions structure this and make a new model is a complicated legal process that needs to occur. This is not college sports, it is professional sports.

I've always thought college sports should be divided between revenue and non-revenue sports. The ones where the school can make a profit should be treated as a business investment and the ones where is does not should be viewed as a service they provide the students. Rules designed to be fair to the students, (such as Title IX), should be applied to the sports the university provides for the students. The revenue sport should be able to govern themselves.

 

[CousCuse]

I've always thought college sports should be divided between revenue and non-revenue sports. The ones where the school can make a profit should be treated as a business investment and the ones where is does not should be viewed as a service they provide the students. Rules designed to be fair to the students, (such as Title IX), should be applied to the sports the university provides for the students. The revenue sport should be able to govern themselves.

I think the big schools already run it like that thru some different scheme. I find it hard to believe donors are putting in 10's of millions of dollars without some payback.

 

[TheCusian]

Where does the not a good recruiter crap come from?

Not to mention this is such a silly thing that people latch onto, the same holds true for Marrone. Head coaches don’t do the recruiting the assistant coaches do all the recruiting.

Then he hired crappy assistants at Florida

Plus, the def lay out recruiting strategy which sucked at Florida

 

[qdawgg]

Then he hired crappy assistants at Florida

Plus, the def lay out recruiting strategy which sucked at Florida

Wait, you want to give DB 10 yrs and huge turnover in assistants before saying he’s maybe not doing a good job. But Mullen hired crappy assistants and you know that already? At least apply the same rationale between your arguments. Mullen isn’t coming here so you don’t need to feel threatened by that.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

C. is not correct with respect to basketball. Having 20 home games per year puts serious money in the bank for SU. That's why we are among the top earners in college hoops.

Not compared (hence relative to) tv and tournament revenue

 

[OrangePA]

It comes from someone reading a buzzword article and then making it gospel. That's where it comes from.

He had top 20 recruiting classes his first 2 years out of the gate at Miss St and was the 2014 SEC coach of the year, but the guy isn't a competent HC who can't recruit.

Meanwhile we're on losing season 5 of 6 with our current HC who's highest rated recruiting class was in the 50's, and we're worried about Dan Mullen recruiting here. It's bizarre some of the arguments that get manufactured in order to promote retaining Dino.

He had a huge reputation coming out of Miss. State.

What's the explanation for the losing record this season and the quick decision to cap him?

I'm not offering an opinion - I'm asking for information.

I like the idea of hiring a guy with the reputation this guy had up until a few weeks ago and I like the connection to the Pasqualoni/DeLeone era.

But I am always leery of hiring a guy who could not make in a higher profile position.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Offer a failed SEC coach? Sounds like a great idea...