Question about recruiting ethics

.

AZOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
12,591
Likes
14,577
#26
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
252
Likes
423
#27
Again the USC facts are misinformed also. Not surprising. USC chose Enfield over Hop. If we are going to debate this stuff can we agree being informed on the facts is a good starting point?

Syracuse basketball assistant Mike Hopkins opens up about USC job, relationship with Jim Boeheim
It's not whether or not the position was offered to him, it's that he was interested in it. But I got it, you think Hopkins was extremely happy with how the whole JB retirement magically turned into indefinite status while Hop waited in the wings thinking otherwise. Got it. Thank you drive through.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
252
Likes
423
#29
Hop turned down USC and probably other jobs because he liked Lights on the Lake, Dinosaur Bbq and Winterfest so much.
I'll agree that I misstated that he turned it down when in fact he didn't get the position, but my point still stands, he was looking, and it was known that the Cuse job was his until JB turned things around unexpectedly.
 

AZOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
12,591
Likes
14,577
#30
I'll agree that I misstated that he turned it down when in fact he didn't get the position, but my point still stands, he was looking, and it was known that the Cuse job was his until JB turned things around unexpectedly.
You’re still very much misstating the chronology of events.
 

AZOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
12,591
Likes
14,577
#31
Can’t believe people are still talking this nonsense. If anything it’s the other way around.
It’s unreal. Trust me I wanted Hop here more than anyone (still do), and thought he was ready even without a HC gig. But I can’t even fathom how to make the argument that SU screwed him. He had a guarantee to take over a top 10 program at the end of 2018!
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,292
Likes
1,033
#32
In the last minute, Coach K dropped in and stole Jordan Tucker. Many thought that was unbecoming of coach K- to swoop in and "steal" a recruit like that, especially since he's supposedly friends w JB. Calipari and WW Wes swooping in and doing their illegal thing on QG. Now you have this Hopkins situation which has more to it, a former coach who did everything he could to recruit this kid and bring him to Syracuse. Fast forward 3-4 years, he Iands a different job and uses his personal influence w the kid to woo him over to UW. I want to be clear here... I'm not whining I'm not b!tching, just curious what ppl here think. Was what Hopkins did a slight to Syracuse fans, JB and his staff and the program? Or is this an "all's fair in love and war" situation? Personally I think Hopkins sold him on our program only to use his personal influence and possibly some Syracuse pot-shots to get him to come there. I'm a bit perturbed by this I'll admit.
This is a great post. Perhaps the NCAA should ban assistants who become head coaches at other schools that it’s a recruiting violation to recruit players they had a relationship with before they left their school. It’s almost like tampering
 

Consigliere

All Conference
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,486
Likes
6,158
#33
I'll agree that I misstated that he turned it down when in fact he didn't get the position, but my point still stands, he was looking, and it was known that the Cuse job was his until JB turned things around unexpectedly.
JB turned nothing around. If Hop had turned down the Washington offer he would be the head coach at Syracuse now and JB would be in his first year of retirement. That was the plan, everyone accepted the plan and there was full understanding on behalf of all parties. It was only AFTER Hop left for Washington that Wildhack reached out to JB and asked him if he would consider staying on.
 

orangecuse

All American
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
4,937
Likes
6,023
#35
JB turned nothing around. If Hop had turned down the Washington offer he would be the head coach at Syracuse now and JB would be in his first year of retirement. That was the plan, everyone accepted the plan and there was full understanding on behalf of all parties. It was only AFTER Hop left for Washington that Wildhack reached out to JB and asked him if he would consider staying on.
I'm so glad JB never planned any hoopla for his farewell season...the 'ol chum knew what he was doing all along. ;)
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
1,154
Likes
1,635
#37
JB turned nothing around. If Hop had turned down the Washington offer he would be the head coach at Syracuse now and JB would be in his first year of retirement. That was the plan, everyone accepted the plan and there was full understanding on behalf of all parties. It was only AFTER Hop left for Washington that Wildhack reached out to JB and asked him if he would consider staying on.
Just wondering...if all this is true and JB was set to retire. Why did he resign for 4-5 years. If cuse was in a bad spot but JB just wanted to help out why is it lasting so long? Why would he not stay on for a year or so extra and they could have been looking for a coach?
 

Sherman20

2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,229
Likes
2,320
#38
Ugh. SU didn’t screw Hopkins. People on this board, including a lot of respected posters, need to stop with that narrative. Wildhack would agree—SU never ever wavered in the succession plan to have Hop take over from JB after last season. JB apparently made some moves to try and stay/get it extended, but Syverud and Wildhack were sticking to the plan. Hop felt bad and knew JB wanted to keep coaching and coach Buddy. He didn’t want to push out his mentor. So when the Washington job opened, he jumped at the great opportunity.
A friend of mine helped me understand something I missed. SU screwed Hopkins and he has every right to do what he did. I guess I didn't see it that way. Maybe he was justified?
 

Consigliere

All Conference
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,486
Likes
6,158
#39
Just wondering...if all this is true and JB was set to retire. Why did he resign for 4-5 years. If cuse was in a bad spot but JB just wanted to help out why is it lasting so long? Why would he not stay on for a year or so extra and they could have been looking for a coach?

There is a freshman on the roster that he really enjoys coaching? There is no "IF" about it. This is all true and verifiable by any number of sources. Things change and Hop's departure opened the door for a change not the other way around.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
1,154
Likes
1,635
#40
There is a freshman on the roster that he really enjoys coaching? There is no "IF" about it. This is all true and verifiable by any number of sources. Things change and Hop's departure opened the door for a change not the other way around.
I get that things are verifiable and everybody has said the right stuff. Ppl can believe what they want. Either way he is gone so no use in arguing.
 

OrangeXtreme

The Mayor of Dewitt
Staff member
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
94,631
Likes
117,946
#41
Just wondering...if all this is true and JB was set to retire. Why did he resign for 4-5 years. If cuse was in a bad spot but JB just wanted to help out why is it lasting so long? Why would he not stay on for a year or so extra and they could have been looking for a coach?
If you were a HS kid, would you commit to a school if you didn't know who your coach would be next year?
 

Sherman20

2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,229
Likes
2,320
#42
It’s unreal. Trust me I wanted Hop here more than anyone (still do), and thought he was ready even without a HC gig. But I can’t even fathom how to make the argument that SU screwed him. He had a guarantee to take over a top 10 program at the end of 2018!
Thank you Zona, for trying to correct the facts here and put the kibosh on this nonsense.
 

Sherman20

2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,229
Likes
2,320
#43
Lol dumb. Nah, Hop wasn't given a timetable, stayed here, bided his time, then suddenly was told nevermind. The fact that you completely dismiss that whole scenario as dumb shows which post is dumb. Try staying somewhere for a couple years after you're promised a promotion only to be told sorry, you get nothing. Let me know how you feel after that.
You’re as wrong as wrong can be. Hop WAS given a timetable. Google is your friend.
 

Sherman20

2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,229
Likes
2,320
#45
Maybe "screwing him" isn't necessarily the most accurate term...and maybe it was more JB, than it was Cuse. But, I mean...how long was he the "head coach in waiting"? How many opportunities were turned away due to him believing he was the next head coach at Syracuse? I am not bitter and doubt that Hop is, and dont care so much...just playing devils advocate a little.
I think this is where the confusion comes in for some people. There were rumors that JB tried to operate behind the scenes with influential boosters and the powers-that-be to get his retirement date pushed back. I don’t know if there’s any truth to these assertions, but I’ve heard them since this all went down in March 2017. And perhaps some boosters were agitating behind the scenes to let JB stay as head coach. But NONE of those people, including JB himself, were ultimately making that call. And Syverud and Wildhack were unequivocal in their plan (and I’m sure Hop would attest to this)—Hop would be taking over for JB after JB’s planned retirement in spring 2018. Syverud set the timeline after the sanctions were imposed, came to an agreement with Hop, and wasn’t going to go back on said agreement even if a select few boosters were going to complain. They never wavered. It was Hop that decided he didn’t want to push out JB after the Washington job was offered to him.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,187
Likes
1,571
#46
I think this is where the confusion comes in for some people. There were rumors that JB tried to operate behind the scenes with influential boosters and the powers-that-be to get his retirement date pushed back. I don’t know if there’s any truth to these assertions, but I’ve heard them since this all went down in March 2017. And perhaps some boosters were agitating behind the scenes to let JB stay as head coach. But NONE of those people, including JB himself, were ultimately making that call. And Syverud and Wildhack were unequivocal in their plan (and I’m sure Hop would attest to this)—Hop would be taking over for JB after JB’s planned retirement in spring 2018. Syverud set the timeline after the sanctions were imposed, came to an agreement with Hop, and wasn’t going to go back on said agreement even if a select few boosters were going to complain. They never wavered. It was Hop that decided he didn’t want to push out JB after the Washington job was offered to him.
Yeah I def need to lay off the hops (not Hop) and bong water...this was the first of 2 times today that I have realized my memory has not been kind to me.

I do thank you, AZ and others for helping me out. Thanks.
 

Briancuse

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
19,772
Likes
22,709
#47
A friend of mine helped me understand something I missed. SU screwed Hopkins and he has every right to do what he did. I guess I didn't see it that way. Maybe he was justified?
Hop was never screwed over. Jb has the right to keep working.
 

Sherman20

2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,229
Likes
2,320
#49
Hop was never screwed over. Jb has the right to keep working.
Well, I don’t know about that. JB doesn’t have “the right” to keep working here forever and ever. But Hop basically made it so by taking the Washington job instead of sticking with the planned timeline for him to take over. He didn’t want to push out his mentor, the guy who made his career possible. Totally understandable. And awesome for him in landing a great job. It’s been fine for us in the short term. JB and staff have done a good job solidifying and shoring things up (though maybe not entirely to everyone’s liking). But I do wonder if long-term it would have been better to move into the Hop era with a seasoned young coach who learned from the best but is also a tencious recruiter and competitor. Despite what some may feel right now, I still think when the time is right Hop will return to Syracuse. I think he’ll see the limitations out west in the PAC-12 as he gets further along in his tenure there. If not, we’ll get a very good coach to replace JB.
 

Capt. Tuttle

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
15,201
Likes
16,017
#50
In the last minute, Coach K dropped in and stole Jordan Tucker. Many thought that was unbecoming of coach K- to swoop in and "steal" a recruit like that, especially since he's supposedly friends w JB. Calipari and WW Wes swooping in and doing their illegal thing on QG. Now you have this Hopkins situation which has more to it, a former coach who did everything he could to recruit this kid and bring him to Syracuse. Fast forward 3-4 years, he Iands a different job and uses his personal influence w the kid to woo him over to UW. I want to be clear here... I'm not whining I'm not b!tching, just curious what ppl here think. Was what Hopkins did a slight to Syracuse fans, JB and his staff and the program? Or is this an "all's fair in love and war" situation? Personally I think Hopkins sold him on our program only to use his personal influence and possibly some Syracuse pot-shots to get him to come there. I'm a bit perturbed by this I'll admit.
Follow the rules, make your pitch, get who you can. That's it. The rest is snowflake logic.
 
.
Top Bottom