Question about recruiting ethics

[Capt. Tuttle]

Thats funny...didn't insiders just say yesterday that we were the favorites after the visit? When did that narrative change?

Almost every school bus the favorite after the visit. If not, you are not doing the visit right.

 

[Caboose]

Redirect Notice

Follow the rules, make your pitch, get who you can. That's it. The rest is snowflake logic.

You're so savvy w words. My hero.

I'm kinda w Devo on this one tho.

https://www.democratandchronicle.co...cuse-basketball-mike-hopkins-retire/99416578/

 

[grepal]

Other than the obvious bag of cash we hear about the most unethical recruiting story I remember was Dingell Marshall who was poached by Calhoun by claiming JB would not be around as he was dying from cancer. Calhoun disgusts me to this day.

 

[orangefog]

Other than the obvious bag of cash we hear about the most unethical recruiting story I remember was Dingell Marshall who was poached by Calhoun by claiming JB would not be around as he was dying from cancer. Calhoun disgusts me to this day.

I hadn’t heard that one. But, I think you mixed two players, Donyell Marshall and Dingell Berry.

 

[brian williams]

I hadn’t heard that one. But, I think you mixed two players, Donyell Marshall and Dingell Berry.

I remember Dingell Berry. He would hang around the basket until shots just dropped for him.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I hadn’t heard that one. But, I think you mixed two players, Donyell Marshall and Dingell Berry.

Well, there was also the probation.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Other than the obvious bag of cash we hear about the most unethical recruiting story I remember was Dingell Marshall who was poached by Calhoun by claiming JB would not be around as he was dying from cancer. Calhoun disgusts me to this day.

I thought it was because of the depths Donyelle Marshall was sold that SU basketball was supposed to sink to because of NCAA sanctions. Boeheim wasn’t diagnosed with prostate cancer till 2001 when Marshall was out of college

 

[moqui]

Redirect Notice

You're so savvy w words. My hero.

I'm kinda w Devo on this one tho.

Devo: Jim Boeheim didn't want to retire

to be clear: that devo is not the syracuse devo. it's a rochester sports writer with no connection to nor insight into the program.

 

[Caboose]

to be clear: that devo is not the syracuse devo. it's a rochester sports writer with no connection to nor insight into the program.

Right, but I share his opinion like many others around here do. I just don't buy Wildhack and JB's rendition of how this all unfolded. JB was not going to be told, after 4 decades, how his career here would end. Then the fact that he continues to coach here years after Hop left. No way, not buying it. It's ok for you to disagree w me, but I don't believe Hop stuck around for two decades w a promise to be head coach just to suddenly bolt. Then you have JB here for like another 6-7 years. Yea no, not buying it. Then there's the whole Wildhack wants his own coach thing after JB, not a successor. I buy that more because it seems more logical.

 

[RF2044]

Right, but I share his opinion like many others around here do. I just don't buy Wildhack and JB's rendition of how this all unfolded. JB was not going to be told, after 4 decades, how his career here would end. Then the fact that he continues to coach here years after Hop left. No way, not buying it. It's ok for you to disagree w me, but I don't believe Hop stuck around for two decades w a promise to be head coach just to suddenly bolt. Then you have JB here for like another 6-7 years. Yea no, not buying it. Then there's the whole Wildhack wants his own coach thing after JB, not a successor. I buy that more because it seems more logical.

I think that the truth is somewhere in-between, with a little from what you are saying and a little from what others are saying all factoring in.

But one thing that you are definitely overlooking with regard to the highlighted section above is that Hopkins almost bolted numerous times prior to when he actually pulled the trigger with Washington. Several years before his departure, he almost pulled the trigger on St. Bonaventure. JB [who'd handed off a lot of operational responsibility to Hopkins and didn't want to see him go] actively talked him out of taking that job. Charlotte came up a couple of years later, and Hop reportedly came within an eyelash of moving on then. A few years ago, he was one of the finalist for the open USC gig that went to Andy Edfield. If that had been offered, Hop would have been gonzo.

So it wasn't as though he waited around resolutely with his eyes only for the SU job, only to have the rug yanked out from underneath him. I DO think that Hopkins wanted the job, and stayed around longer than other assistants probably would have to wait his turn, but if the right opportunity had manifested he would have jumped at the opportunity to jump. And almost did. Several times.

 

[Caboose]

I think that the truth is somewhere in-between, with a little from what you are saying and a little from what others are saying all factoring in.

But one thing that you are definitely overlooking with regard to the highlighted section above is that Hopkins almost bolted numerous times prior to when he actually pulled the trigger with Washington. Several years before his departure, he almost pulled the trigger on St. Bonaventure. JB [who'd handed off a lot of operational responsibility to Hopkins and didn't want to see him go] actively talked him out of taking that job. Charlotte came up a couple of years later, and Hop reportedly came within an eyelash of moving on then. A few years ago, he was one of the finalist for the open USC gig that went to Andy Edfield. If that had been offered, Hop would have been gonzo.

So it wasn't as though he waited around resolutely with his eyes only for the SU job, only to have the rug yanked out from underneath him. I DO think that Hopkins wanted the job, and stayed around longer than other assistants probably would have to wait his turn, but if the right opportunity had manifested he would have jumped at the opportunity to jump. And almost did. Several times.

I see your point I do, but I will also use that argument against you and say that if he turned-down/went-for the multiple opportunities he did only to bolt in the 11th hour when the job here was supposedly assuredly his, it stands more to reason that there is more to this than the UW opportunity being something he couldn't pass up. I feel that JB wanting to stay on played played the biggest part in this. Just my thoughts.

 

[pfister1]

Well, I don’t know about that. JB doesn’t have “the right” to keep working here forever and ever. But Hop basically made it so by taking the Washington job instead of sticking with the planned timeline for him to take over. He didn’t want to push out his mentor, the guy who made his career possible. Totally understandable. And awesome for him in landing a great job. It’s been fine for us in the short term. JB and staff have done a good job solidifying and shoring things up (though maybe not entirely to everyone’s liking). But I do wonder if long-term it would have been better to move into the Hop era with a seasoned young coach who learned from the best but is also a tencious recruiter and competitor. Despite what some may feel right now, I still think when the time is right Hop will return to Syracuse. I think he’ll see the limitations out west in the PAC-12 as he gets further along in his tenure there. If not, we’ll get a very good coach to replace JB.

It would have better in the sense that we could have gone through the transition from one coach to another, which is likely going to include some form of blip in our performance, at the same time that we were enduring the end of the blip from sanctions. Doing it the way that we are there is the possibility that we experience two separate blips. Aside from that its hard to say whether it was good, bad or indifferent. 10 years from now looking back the answer will probably be more obvious.

 

[orangecuse]

It would have better in the sense that we could have gone through the transition from one coach to another, which is likely going to include some form of blip in our performance, at the same time that we were enduring the end of the blip from sanctions. Doing it the way that we are there is the possibility that we experience two separate blips. Aside from that its hard to say whether it was good, bad or indifferent. 10 years from now looking back the answer will probably be more obvious.

Yes, as your last sentence suggests, hindsight is 20/20.

I'm hopeful, however, that we're able to skip the blip or any semblance of one whenever JB is finished...like what the Mack hire at UL appears to be doing. UL is off to an impressive start this season after all the recent turmoil, and have a top 5 recruiting class coming in next year.

 

[FrancoPizza]

in reality he probably sold IS in playing for him as head coach of Syracuse since that was the expectation.

If that’s the case then we can partly blame ADJW for losing IS.

 

[ar inj]

Why stops there? We should just blame ADJW's entire lineage.

 

[longtimefan]

I see your point I do, but I will also use that argument against you and say that if he turned-down/went-for the multiple opportunities he did only to bolt in the 11th hour when the job here was supposedly assuredly his, it stands more to reason that there is more to this than the UW opportunity being something he couldn't pass up. I feel that JB wanting to stay on played played the biggest part in this. Just my thoughts.

Go back and look at the coverage of the Hopkins-to-Washington story.

1.) There is Hopkins family history at UW.
2.) His parents are aging, and his father has medical issues. He wanted to be closer to them, and I would not be surprised if they are now in Seattle.

 

[Brooky03]

Hop did nothing wrong. Local guys just hate the idea of going to Cuse it seems.