Question about the Syracuse mentality around QB play

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Ive been a fan since the early-mid 90s. And there have been two generally constant things since then, regardless of coach, offensive coordinator, or scheme.

1- We play in a climate controlled Dome tailor made for an aerial attack.
2- We consistently use QBs as dual threat players, rather than "throw the ball all over the field" QBs

I first became a fan in the last year of Marvin Graves. With a few exceptions, we consistently tend to target dual threat QBs. Even guys who are considered "pro" style recruits dont seem to get to, or be able to, throw all the passes you would expect a QB to in a Syracuse offense. Way back in the option days under P, through today. Some have worked out very well, some not as much. But the fact is, no matter how many coaches come in here with how many new systems, we never ever ever get one who says...we are indoors. Climate controlled. Lets build around an offense that can throw 35+ times a game. Let's use the Dome to our advantage. We don't recruit guys who can just drop back and throw.

I know dual threat QB offenses are popular, but there are still a lot of pro style guys out there and you would think SOME could make all of the throws.

Why? What is the common thread I am missing?

Note- I'm not trying to be argumentative. I legit don't get it. I see Dome teams consistently exploiting their setting for their benefit, but we for decades have run offenses that look like they were designed for a snow covered Archbold, and seemingly always will. And this is not a comment on any player or players. Its more a discussion around approach

 

[SoBristol]

The reverse might be true under Dino. DeVito was his guy (pro style). He won with incumbent pro style QBs at his prior stops, and he recruited pro style QBs. Chance Amie (recruit who transferred out) might be the one exception. Neither of our current frosh QBs is much of a threat to run. Lamson in this current cycle might bring some running ability.

 

[upperdeck]

Who was our last real Duel threat other than Dungey that played real minutes.. Nassib/Paulus thats about 5 yrs that didnt. Hunt could run was he a duel threat?

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

The reverse might be true under Dino. DeVito was his guy (pro style). He won with incumbent pro style QBs at his prior stops, and he recruited pro style QBs. Chance Amie (recruit who transferred out) might be the one exception. Neither of our current frosh QBs is much of a threat to run. Lamson in this current cycle might bring some running ability.

You know you are right, Devito was listed as a pro-style QB. That surprises me considering the passing tree he works with which is largely passes near or behind the LOS or the deep ball. I honestly assumed he was a dual based on that.

Regardless of who we are recruiting, we rarely seem to build offenses designed for lots of passing

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

I just want a QB who can make the throws. In a Dome, I want a QB who can throw short passes...throw intermediate passes...and throw deep. We always seem to be operating with a very limited, much easier to defend, passing tree. And it hasnt changed based on coach or scheme.

Perhaps the OL and the talent level is a common driver. That said, its less about playcalls and more about the fact we just dont seem to recruit guys who are ABLE to make a snappy 15 yard out throw, or a 12 yard slant over the middle. Its like those plays dont even exist in our offense.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I just want a QB who can make the throws. In a Dome, I want a QB who can throw short passes...throw intermediate passes...and throw deep. We always seem to be operating with a very limited, much easier to defend, passing tree. And it hasnt changed based on coach or scheme.

Perhaps the OL and the talent level is a common driver. That said, its less about playcalls and more about the fact we just dont seem to recruit guys who are ABLE to make a snappy 15 yard out throw, or a 12 yard slant over the middle. Its like those plays dont even exist in our offense.

I've heard of QB's like that. They're called "5 star recruits".

We recruit tons of them. We just never seem to sign any of them.

Maybe someday...

 

[Newhouser]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

NOt sure I buy that - Leach, June Jones in his day, and a few others do it without 5 star linemen. It is one of the fundamental disconnects with Dino and the fan base in my opinion. He played fast but his attack is run based. I don't think we have ever had a coach who wanted to only throw it around the yard.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

NOt sure I buy that - Leach, June Jones in his day, and a few others do it without 5 star linemen. It is one of the fundamental disconnects with Dino and the fan base in my opinion. He played fast but his attack is run based. I don't think we have ever had a coach who wanted to only throw it around the yard.

GRob thought about it, but he never had enough WR's to make it work.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

Eh...

The Pirate finds a way.

It can be done.

 

[cuse10]

I've heard of QB's like that. They're called "5 star recruits".

We recruit tons of them. We just never seem to sign any of them.

Maybe someday...

Instead of million dollar donations to facilities, drop a bag off to a recruit. People here want SEC/Clemson results. You need to get in the mud like them.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Instead of million dollar donations to facilities, drop a bag off to a recruit. People here want SEC/Clemson results. You need to get in the mud like them.

I'd be perfectly satisfied with the Pitt ACC performances to date. Seasons 8,7,5,8,8,6,7 wins. Frankly, i 100% think we should be there in this conference.

No one expects Clemson.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Instead of million dollar donations to facilities, drop a bag off to a recruit. People here want SEC/Clemson results. You need to get in the mud like them.

We couldn't even get a kid a job at the YMCA without getting pinched.

 

[Cusefan69]

Is the question about QBs and their talent in the dome or how many wins a season we would be happy with?

At a high level we have had plenty good enough QBs to make the throws. I think coaching staffs identify players that have attributes and skills that are plus/minus. Most can be taught up on some of those skills. Over the years Syracuse has had more QBs that can make plays verse not. It goes without saying though that other variables can influence the QBs success and outcomes.

 

[Millhouse]

Ive been a fan since the early-mid 90s. And there have been two generally constant things since then, regardless of coach, offensive coordinator, or scheme.

1- We play in a climate controlled Dome tailor made for an aerial attack.
2- We consistently use QBs as dual threat players, rather than "throw the ball all over the field" QBs

I first became a fan in the last year of Marvin Graves. With a few exceptions, we consistently tend to target dual threat QBs. Even guys who are considered "pro" style recruits dont seem to get to, or be able to, throw all the passes you would expect a QB to in a Syracuse offense. Way back in the option days under P, through today. Some have worked out very well, some not as much. But the fact is, no matter how many coaches come in here with how many new systems, we never ever ever get one who says...we are indoors. Climate controlled. Lets build around an offense that can throw 35+ times a game. Let's use the Dome to our advantage. We don't recruit guys who can just drop back and throw.

I know dual threat QB offenses are popular, but there are still a lot of pro style guys out there and you would think SOME could make all of the throws.

Why? What is the common thread I am missing?

Note- I'm not trying to be argumentative. I legit don't get it. I see Dome teams consistently exploiting their setting for their benefit, but we for decades have run offenses that look like they were designed for a snow covered Archbold, and seemingly always will. And this is not a comment on any player or players. Its more a discussion around approach

Giants fans are the reason we don't go air raid. They watch SU and NFL games and they like what they like.

Under appreciated part of the raid is that all four abs are throwing all the time, everyone's throwing and catching all the time, every route. Efficient for offense. Defensive trade-off but we are never get good on defense so who cares

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Is the question about QBs and their talent in the dome or how many wins a season we would be happy with?

At a high level we have had plenty good enough QBs to make the throws. I think coaching staffs identify players that have attributes and skills that are plus/minus. Most can be taught up on some of those skills. Over the years Syracuse has had more QBs that can make plays verse not. It goes without saying though that other variables can influence the QBs success and outcomes.

It was about QB play style in the Dome. I was just responding to the comment that everyone wants us to be Clemson

 

[upperdeck]

leach is lighting up in the SEC.. brought in a big time P-5 transfer who he has benched twice. scored 2 vs Kent and 200 yds vs Tam. Avg 10 pts a game since they somehow threw all over LSU.

 

[All4SU]

I just want a QB who can make the throws. In a Dome, I want a QB who can throw short passes...throw intermediate passes...and throw deep. We always seem to be operating with a very limited, much easier to defend, passing tree. And it hasnt changed based on coach or scheme.

Perhaps the OL and the talent level is a common driver. That said, its less about playcalls and more about the fact we just dont seem to recruit guys who are ABLE to make a snappy 15 yard out throw, or a 12 yard slant over the middle. Its like those plays dont even exist in our offense.

I believe TD can make all those throws. I believe with a fully functioning OL he can both pick teams apart with short throws as well as hit deep throws. The common denominator, as you say, is we are unable to give him the time and protection necessary to execute that type of offense. Like you, I want to see lots of passes each game - throw 40x each game, run 40x, and I’m good. It’s just not our reality right now.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I believe TD can make all those throws. I believe with a fully functioning OL he can both pick teams apart with short throws as well as hit deep throws. The common denominator, as you say, is we are unable to give him the time and protection necessary to execute that type of offense. Like you, I want to see lots of passes each game - throw 40x each game, run 40x, and I’m good. It’s just not our reality right now.

I see TD throw at or behind the LOS...or chuck it way deep. I mean, for Pete's sake, only at SU is 3rd and 4 ALWAYS a 20 yard or longer pass. I never see the 10 yard slant. I never see the 15 yard out. Our passing tree is anemic. And its not a protection deal. It takes LESS time to run 10 yards than 20-30+

Why?

 

[orangepassion]

I see TD throw at or behind the LOS...or chuck it way deep. I mean, for Pete's sake, only at SU is 3rd and 4 ALWAYS a 20 yard or longer pass. I never see the 10 yard slant. I never see the 15 yard out. Our passing tree is anemic. And its not a protection deal. It takes LESS time to run 10 yards than 20-30+

Why?

Was better last game-Hope it continues

 

[elimunelson]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

To me those guys were all world. I wonder sometimes about someone like Troy Nunes. Was he bad but surrounded by top notch talent or would he be the type of guy in 2020 who would win more games for us than the current options

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

To me those guys were all world. I wonder sometimes about someone like Troy Nunes. Was he bad but surrounded by top notch talent or would he be the type of guy in 2020 who would win more games for us than the current options

I also wonder about how good that team could have been if RJ Anderson played over Nunes (as he should have)...

 

[TheCusian]

Has this offense ever had a RB that can do what Tucker can do?

Lots of moving parts and question marks on OL with seniors and injuries and Bleich - but I'm honestly feeling better about that group for 2021.

If TD comes back and/or we get a transfer (or if Lamson pulls a Dungey) - I think we're in much better shape next year overall on O.

Lots of "ifs" and many of those things have not gone our way since 2018.

 

[cuse10]

I see TD throw at or behind the LOS...or chuck it way deep. I mean, for Pete's sake, only at SU is 3rd and 4 ALWAYS a 20 yard or longer pass. I never see the 10 yard slant. I never see the 15 yard out. Our passing tree is anemic. And its not a protection deal. It takes LESS time to run 10 yards than 20-30+

Why?

Those are the routes in what's called. We were discussing this after the game. They call the plays based off of arm strength and capability. It's clear at this point.

 

[Cusefan69]

I see TD throw at or behind the LOS...or chuck it way deep. I mean, for Pete's sake, only at SU is 3rd and 4 ALWAYS a 20 yard or longer pass. I never see the 10 yard slant. I never see the 15 yard out. Our passing tree is anemic. And its not a protection deal. It takes LESS time to run 10 yards than 20-30+

Why?

Seems like you have an issue with OC. This sounds like a question you should pose to Dino on his radio show.