Question about the Syracuse mentality around QB play

[Briancuse]

I'd be perfectly satisfied with the Pitt ACC performances to date. Seasons 8,7,5,8,8,6,7 wins. Frankly, i 100% think we should be there in this conference.

No one expects Clemson.

I'd be happy with pitt type results with a 2018 thrown In every now and then. It sure beats syracuse results and hearing how we should be Duke lol.

 

[SUbear]

Ive been a fan since the early-mid 90s. And there have been two generally constant things since then, regardless of coach, offensive coordinator, or scheme.

1- We play in a climate controlled Dome tailor made for an aerial attack.
2- We consistently use QBs as dual threat players, rather than "throw the ball all over the field" QBs

I first became a fan in the last year of Marvin Graves. With a few exceptions, we consistently tend to target dual threat QBs. Even guys who are considered "pro" style recruits dont seem to get to, or be able to, throw all the passes you would expect a QB to in a Syracuse offense. Way back in the option days under P, through today. Some have worked out very well, some not as much. But the fact is, no matter how many coaches come in here with how many new systems, we never ever ever get one who says...we are indoors. Climate controlled. Lets build around an offense that can throw 35+ times a game. Let's use the Dome to our advantage. We don't recruit guys who can just drop back and throw.

I know dual threat QB offenses are popular, but there are still a lot of pro style guys out there and you would think SOME could make all of the throws.

Why? What is the common thread I am missing?

Note- I'm not trying to be argumentative. I legit don't get it. I see Dome teams consistently exploiting their setting for their benefit, but we for decades have run offenses that look like they were designed for a snow covered Archbold, and seemingly always will. And this is not a comment on any player or players. Its more a discussion around approach

Syracuse does not consistently have the horses on the O line to consistently be good using a pro style QB. SU has a better chance year over year with duel threat type QBs. It is mainly a protection issue over the long haul.

 

[BEAR'S DAD]

The reverse might be true under Dino. DeVito was his guy (pro style). He won with incumbent pro style QBs at his prior stops, and he recruited pro style QBs. Chance Amie (recruit who transferred out) might be the one exception. Neither of our current frosh QBs is much of a threat to run. Lamson in this current cycle might bring some running ability.

YOU WILL "RARELY" WIN IN THE ACC WITHOUT A DUAL THREAT QB. THE DEFENSIVE ENDS HAVE WAY TOO MUCH SPEED AND THEY ARE GETTING TALLER AND FASTER EACH YEAR.

 

[orangepassion]

Seems like you have an issue with OC. This sounds like a question you should pose to Dino on his radio show.

And when they ask your name and where you're from, make sure to say FreakTalksAboutSU

 

[SoBristol]

YOU WILL "RARELY" WIN IN THE ACC WITHOUT A DUAL THREAT QB. THE DEFENSIVE ENDS HAVE WAY TOO MUCH SPEED AND THEY ARE GETTING TALLER AND FASTER EACH YEAR.

Agree entirely. The only chance for a Pro QB is to have weapons at all spots, quick decision making, quick release, a star RB to create balance, good OTs and the ability to make plays when forced to run, Or most of that. Much easier to have a dual threat QB who can keep the DEs and blitzing LBs honest.

 

[dollarbill44]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

I disagree. If the QB trusts his reads and makes quick decisions and can make accurate throws, you can get by with mediocre line play. Culpeper does 2 of the 3.

 

[SUbear]

I disagree. If the QB trusts his reads and makes quick decisions and can make accurate throws, you can get by with mediocre line play. Culpeper does 2 of the 3.

You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

 

[orangecuse]

You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

Telling someone they'd be "wrong" when it involves one's own opinion, not to mention in doing so, the fact that you can't prove him wrong, is quite telling as well.

 

[dollarbill44]

You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

Which part is wrong? My opinion that a pro style passer can be successful behind a mediocre line or that Rex does 2 of the 3?

 

[Orangezoo]

This thread is the ideal case study for whether CoVid isolation causes brain damage.

 

[Wrinkle]

Telling someone they'd be "wrong" when it involves one's own opinion, not to mention in doing so, the fact that you can't prove him wrong, is quite telling as well.

He's saying that in his opinion, that opinion is wrong

 

[tipphill]

Ive been a fan since the early-mid 90s. And there have been two generally constant things since then, regardless of coach, offensive coordinator, or scheme.

1- We play in a climate controlled Dome tailor made for an aerial attack.
2- We consistently use QBs as dual threat players, rather than "throw the ball all over the field" QBs

I first became a fan in the last year of Marvin Graves. With a few exceptions, we consistently tend to target dual threat QBs. Even guys who are considered "pro" style recruits dont seem to get to, or be able to, throw all the passes you would expect a QB to in a Syracuse offense. Way back in the option days under P, through today. Some have worked out very well, some not as much. But the fact is, no matter how many coaches come in here with how many new systems, we never ever ever get one who says...we are indoors. Climate controlled. Lets build around an offense that can throw 35+ times a game. Let's use the Dome to our advantage. We don't recruit guys who can just drop back and throw.

I know dual threat QB offenses are popular, but there are still a lot of pro style guys out there and you would think SOME could make all of the throws.

Why? What is the common thread I am missing?

Note- I'm not trying to be argumentative. I legit don't get it. I see Dome teams consistently exploiting their setting for their benefit, but we for decades have run offenses that look like they were designed for a snow covered Archbold, and seemingly always will. And this is not a comment on any player or players. Its more a discussion around approach

we usually don't have an ol that can protect the qb . it all starts there---where's the beef.

 

[tipphill]

Drop back and throw guys are great ... if you have an OL like Ohio State or Michigan.

If your OL is shaky potatoes, you need a QB who can run.

Graves / McNabb / Dungey could improvise when necessary. And it was necessary quite often.

goes farther back than that which i am sure you know.

 

[Stevenson]

We can’t recruit linemen, the foundation of any offense, so we do best when we get a QB who can throw while also running for his life.

 

[sufandu]

I'm not sure why this is a debate. All of the big boys have been using dual threat QB's for a while now. I'm not sure what TL was listed as coming out of high school, but he is certainly dual threat. Watson was before him. Tua and Hurts were at Alabama. Mayfield and Murray (and Hurts) were at Oklahoma.

You can probably get by with a pocket guy if he has a Dan Marino release and you make sure you have quick options to get rid of the ball on every play. Those types of options seem to have disappeared from our offense and Marino is not hobbling through that door.

We need a guy that can make the good plays that are there for the taking and also make something out of nothing sometimes. Lawrence has to do that for Clemson and they're Clemson. If he can't stand back there and be a statue for them, why would we think we can ask a QB to do that for us?

If we can have a solid oline and running game, we can get by with a pocket guy. Our best teams will always be with a dual threat guy.

 

[orangecuse]

I'm not sure why this is a debate. All of the big boys have been using dual threat QB's for a while now. I'm not sure what TL was listed as coming out of high school, but he is certainly dual threat. Watson was before him. Tua and Hurts were at Alabama. Mayfield and Murray (and Hurts) were at Oklahoma.

You can probably get by with a pocket guy if he has a Dan Marino release and you make sure you have quick options to get rid of the ball on every play. Those types of options seem to have disappeared from our offense and Marino is not hobbling through that door.

We need a guy that can make the good plays that are there for the taking and also make something out of nothing sometimes. Lawrence has to do that for Clemson and they're Clemson. If he can't stand back there and be a statue for them, why would we think we can ask a QB to do that for us?

If we can have a solid oline and running game, we can get by with a pocket guy. Our best teams will always be with a dual threat guy.

I agree 100%. Although, I would've referenced Big Ben relative to the quick release since he's still relevant. Not to mention, the MAC guys are right in our apparent wheel house for typical recruits we land.

 

[Cusefan69]

I agree 100%. Although, I would've referenced Big Ben relative to the quick release since he's still relative. Not to mention, the MAC guys are right in our apparent wheel house for typical recruits we land.

Big Ben before he became an old QB used to run the ball pretty well didn’t he? As he developed it happened less over the years but back in his early days he would take a run if it was there.

 

[orangecuse]

Big Ben before he became an old QB used to run the ball pretty well didn’t he? As he developed it happened less over the years but back in his early days he would take a run if it was there.

Yes, when he had to...and as you allude "if it was there." However, I doubt many would ever consider Big Ben a dual threat qb (at least not in the true sense of a dual threat), even in his younger days. I don't recall too many 'designed' qb runs for Ben. Of course, this is coming from a life long Browns fan.

 

[sufandu]

Big Ben before he became an old QB used to run the ball pretty well didn’t he? As he developed it happened less over the years but back in his early days he would take a run if it was there.

Yeah, I don't know that every dual threat QB has to be a Vick or Lamar Jackson. You can have guys that are slower but strong with an aspect of elusiveness.

 

[SUbear]

Which part is wrong? My opinion that a pro style passer can be successful behind a mediocre line or that Rex does 2 of the 3?

Both

 

[SUbear]

He's saying that in his opinion, that opinion is wrong

I have him on ignore for multiple reasons.

 

[dollarbill44]

Both

Cool. Good talk.

 

[SUbear]

Cool. Good talk.

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, everything I say here is my opinion. Take it or ignore it as you will.

 

[dollarbill44]

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, everything I say here is my opinion. Take it or ignore it as you will.

I'm not wearing panties- it's friday. My flippant reply was prompted by your two replies, the first of which was a 4 word reply and your second, a one word reply. If you want to disagree and discuss, that's fine. I thought discussion was the purpose of Syracusefan. A reply of, "you're wrong" is really just arrogant. If that's your thing, cool, I won't waste any more farts on you.

 

[SUbear]

I'm not wearing panties- it's friday. My flippant reply was prompted by your two replies, the first of which was a 4 word reply and your second, a one word reply. If you want to disagree and discuss, that's fine. I thought discussion was the purpose of Syracusefan. A reply of, "you're wrong" is really just arrogant. If that's your thing, cool, I won't waste any more farts on you.

Was not really talking to you, but apparently from your reply your panties were in a bunch. I was really trying to say this is all just opinion.