Question for the more veteran SU hoop fans RE: Jon Cincebox...

[cuseincincy]

Why is Rony Seikaly an All Century player and Jon Cincebox is not?
Per Orangehoops.org:

Seikaly

Cincebox

 

[dollarbill44]

Why is Rony Seikaly an All Century player and Jon Cincebox is not?
Per Orangehoops.org:

Seikaly
View attachment 217731

Cincebox
View attachment 217732

Dunks

 

[Eric15]

Pre-Boeheim coached players simply don't get enough respect from the University.

For example, why hasn't Rudy Hackett's number been retired? Look at those numbers. They're just as good as Melo or Billy Owens. And he led us to our first Final Four.

 

[Eric15]

Greg Kohls and Bill Smith each put up insane numbers. Neither has had their moment to be honored at the Dome. Our Athletic Department sucks sometimes.

 

[rrlbees]

Greg Kohls and Bill Smith each put up insane numbers. Neither has had their moment to be honored at the Dome. Our Athletic Department sucks sometimes.

View attachment 217736View attachment 217737

My 2 fav players during that era as a teen.

 

[GooseMutt]

Incapable of a coherent answer

 

[Col. Bleep]

No excuse for keeping them in the relative shadows.

Derrick Coleman is the only Orange PF who may rank ahead of Rudy Hackett.
A monster.

 

[SWC75]

I agree that pre-Boeheim players need more respect, including this one:

Vinnie Cohen

Syracuse University basketball profile for Vinnie Cohen, forward for the Orangemen.

www.orangehoops.org

Two factors to consider: before 1973-74 freshmen couldn't play with the varsity so players before that only had three years and thus aren't as high on the all-time lists as they should be. (Similarly the number of games played has gone up over the years. The 31 game regular season began in 2008-09). And in Jon Cincebox's day, shooting percentages were much lower and rebound averages were much higher. The difference between him and Rony, (who once had a 34 rebound game in the pros), is exaggerated in the numbers.

 

[OttoMets]

Why is Rony Seikaly an All Century player and Jon Cincebox is not?
Per Orangehoops.org:

Seikaly
View attachment 217731

Cincebox
View attachment 217732

There were a lot of missed shots to be rebounded in those days, that's for sure.

 

[sutomcat]

Why is Rony Seikaly an All Century player and Jon Cincebox is not?
Per Orangehoops.org:

Seikaly
View attachment 217731

Cincebox
View attachment 217732

Good question.

Lots of reasons. The biggest is probably how long ago he played (and how little interest there was in the program back then). How many people in a position to vote him All Century actually saw him play?

I doubt there is a single video showing Cincebox play. If there is, it is probably when he was a sophomore and they went on that crazy run to the Elite Eight. I have never seen any video of that team (would love to if anyone has it).

With players who played with JB and beyond, JB has kept connections in place so players are invited to alumni games, reunions, etc. Newspapers regularly have stories on them, etc.

Another problem is that the team wasn't that great when Jon played. Yes, they went to an Elite Eight his sophomore season, but he was a role player on that team; a first year starter.

You get remembered forever for being a key player on a great team. He was THE key player for the team his junior and senior seasons but they didn't make a post season tournament either of these years. They went 11-10 his junior season and had to go on a 7 game winning streak to salvage a season where they were once 6-9 his senior year.

And as Otto points out, rebounding totals for players from that era were inflated for everyone. Shooting percentages were bad and there were a lot of opportunities for players to get rebounds. 16 rpg in 1959 is probably comparable to 9 or 10 in 2022.

That 1956-57 team was the first Syracuse team to get to the Elite Eight in Syracuse history and helped lay the groundwork for some great teams in future decades. Not sure they were ever honored for their accomplishments. At this point, they might all be gone. Hope we did honor them back in the 1970s or 1980s, when it might have been possible for the whole team to return and get recognized.

 

[Eric15]

The biggest is probably how long ago he played (and how little interest there was in the program back then). How many people in a position to vote him All Century actually saw him play?

I definitely see what you're saying, but Vic Hanson played in the 1920s, Wilmeth Sidat-Singh played in the 1930s and Billy Gabor played in the 1940s and SU retired their numbers. Then there's this weird gap where it's like nobody between WW2 and Louie/Bouie existed with the exception of Dave Bing.

 

[sutomcat]

I definitely see what you're saying, but Vic Hanson played in the 1920s, Wilmeth Sidat-Singh played in the 1930s and Billy Gabor played in the 1940s and SU retired their numbers. Then there's this weird gap where it's like nobody between WW2 and Louie/Bouie existed with the exception of Dave Bing.

But...

Hanson was national player of the year, led Syracuse to a mythical national championship and was considered one of the top 50 players in college basketball history circa 1950.

Wilmeth was a Globetrotter, a fantastic two sport athlete and our first great African American player.

Gabor went on to play for the Syracuse Nats, where he was a member of a world champion team (and the area's favorite basketball team at the time). I think that experience kept in the eye of casual fans far longer than a player like Cincebox, who only played for 3 seasons.

Bill Smith, Kid Kohls and Rudy Hackett all deserve more love too. I don't think SU ever played on TV when Bill Smith or Kid Kohls was on the team. And if not for the Final Four, Rudy might have played on TV once. There is a significant portion of the fan base who only knows players from games on TV.

All these guys missed or largely missed that. I think Manley only held like 5K when Smith and Kohls played. I think it went to around 7800 just after Rudy graduated and didn't get up to 9600 or so until the late 1970s, only shortly before it was abandoned by the men's team.

Not many saw any of these guys play and the teams Smith and Kohls played on didn't advance far in post season tournaments.

Hackett is the hardest one to understand. He has never seemed close to the school and that hasn't helped. If his son has come here, that would have made a big difference in how he is perceived too.

 

[Cheriehoop]

But...

Hanson was national player of the year, led Syracuse to a mythical national championship and was considered one of the top 50 players in college basketball history circa 1950.

Wilmeth was a Globetrotter, a fantastic two sport athlete and our first great African American player.

Gabor went on to play for the Syracuse Nats, where he was a member of a world champion team (and the area's favorite basketball team at the time). I think that experience kept in the eye of casual fans far longer than a player like Cincebox, who only played for 3 seasons.

Bill Smith, Kid Kohls and Rudy Hackett all deserve more love too. I don't think SU ever played on TV when Bill Smith or Kid Kohls was on the team. And if not for the Final Four, Rudy might have played on TV once. There is a significant portion of the fan base who only knows players from games on TV.

All these guys missed or largely missed that. I think Manley only held like 5K when Smith and Kohls played. I think it went to around 7800 just after Rudy graduated and didn't get up to 9600 or so until the late 1970s, only shortly before it was abandoned by the men's team.

Not many saw any of these guys play and the teams Smith and Kohls played on didn't advance far in post season tournaments.

Hackett is the hardest one to understand. He has never seemed close to the school and that hasn't helped. If his son has come here, that would have made a big difference in how he is perceived too.

I do remember watching the NCAA’s in a heart breaking loss on tv when SU and Rudy Hackett played Oral Roberts. According to this site - Rudy Hackett was honored by SU in 2018 with the Vic Hanson Medal of Excellence which for some reason I don’t recall.

Rudy Hackett

Syracuse University basketball profile for Rudy Hackett, player for the Orangemen. NBA and ABA player for St. Louis, New York Nets and Indiana

www.orangehoops.org

 

[sutomcat]

I do remember watching the NCAA’s in a heart breaking loss on tv when SU and Rudy Hackett played Oral Roberts. According to this site - Rudy Hackett was honored by SU in 2018 with the Vic Hanson Medal of Excellence which for some reason I don’t recall.

Rudy Hackett

Syracuse University basketball profile for Rudy Hackett, player for the Orangemen. NBA and ABA player for St. Louis, New York Nets and Indiana

www.orangehoops.org

I remember that one. And at least 4 games from the Final Four run. They might have played a regular season game on TV against someone like West Virginia too but boy, back in those days, games on TV doing the regular season were exceedingly rare.

I think Bucky Walters and Marv Albert did them.

Here is the 1975 game against UNC. Those guys were the big two back then.

 

[ar inj]

Back in the day "Oral Roberts" was my "Vermont". Games I just do not want to remember or think about.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I remember that one. And at least 4 games from the Final Four run. They might have played a regular season game on TV against someone like West Virginia too but boy, back in those days, games on TV doing the regular season were exceedingly rare.

I think Bucky Walters and Marv Albert did them.

Here is the 1975 game against UNC. Those guys were the big two back then.

Yes Bucky and Albert were THE college broadcasters back then.

 

[the villager]

I had the opportunity to see Jon play several times.He was a very good player. Should of had more recognition.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Article on the late Jon Cincebox

SU basketball legend Jon Cincebox is gone, but memory remains

How good was the big man? He remains the Orange's all-time leading rebounder with his career average of 14.6. And he scored 1,087 points, too. (In just 69 varsity games!)

www.syracuse.com

 

[sutomcat]

Article on the late Jon Cincebox

SU basketball legend Jon Cincebox is gone, but memory remains

How good was the big man? He remains the Orange's all-time leading rebounder with his career average of 14.6. And he scored 1,087 points, too. (In just 69 varsity games!)

www.syracuse.com

On man. He looked like Rock Hudson. He played the tuba. And it broke his heart when he wasn't part of the All Century team, which was determined by a fan vote.

No offense to everyone on the board, but we are not qualified to decide what day to put out the garbage. This should have been done by a committee of former players and coaches.

Though I would have still have voted for Joe Schwarzer. He was a first team All American who led us to our first national championship. But I would have found a spot for Jon too.

 

[Cheriehoop]

On man. He looked like Rock Hudson. He played the tuba. And it broke his heart when he wasn't part of the All Century team, which was determined by a fan vote.

No offense to everyone on the board, but we are not qualified to decide what day to put out the garbage. This should have been done by a committee of former players and coaches.

Though I would have still have voted for Joe Schwarzer. He was a first team All American who led us to our first national championship. But I would have found a spot for Jon too.

Agree totally. Hope his wife, children are still alive and they can see him recognized in some way. He stayed pretty local too - Rochester.

 

[SUOrange44]

Agree totally. Hope his wife, children are still alive and they can see him recognized in some way. He stayed pretty local too - Rochester.

Sometimes character and subsequent program contributions (or lack thereof) may play a role as to whether someone is honored or not.

 

[kcsu]

My 2 fav players during that era as a teen.

Kid was a sniper

 

[cuseincincy]

I remember that one. And at least 4 games from the Final Four run. They might have played a regular season game on TV against someone like West Virginia too but boy, back in those days, games on TV doing the regular season were exceedingly rare.

I think Bucky Walters and Marv Albert did them.

Here is the 1975 game against UNC. Those guys were the big two back then.

That was AWESOME to watch! Thanks Tom!

 

[kuethstheman]

I remember watching Bill Smith on TV in an NIT debacle. Don't remember any of the details.

 

[NorSyr66]

Agree totally. Hope his wife, children are still alive and they can see him recognized in some way. He stayed pretty local too - Rochester.

Both Jon and his wife were originally from the Binghamton area. I remember Jon starring in basketball for Binghamton in the early 1950s. Not sure when they ended up in Rochester?