quibble with rahme's article today

[44cuse]

My point is that stats and formulas do not guarantee wins and losses.

Recruiting does and when you are competing with MAC schools for talent, you get MAC caliber of play.

44cuse

 

[RoysRunts]

I was begging Nassib all year to just tuck and run. Even if he's not Michael Vick, it's countless the number of times we could have gotten positive yards vs a sack or incomplete pass. I'm blaming part of that on his coaching to stay in the pocket vs run, but that's just my inference.

Well he got the run part,Not just the tuck and run fast enough part

 

[RoysRunts]

I think #1 needs to be changed to "serviceable" and not "good". We have deficiencies at WR and on the OL. There is no doubt that Nassib cannot hide those deficiencies. But very few QBs can. This goes back to SU fans being spoiled by McNabb. But I think with a decent OL, decent WRs, and a decent run game Nassib can be pretty good.

spoiled by McPherson/Graves/ and McNabb

 

[Millhouse]

So if you have a bad QB and the QB on the bench is worse, then you should bench the starting QB to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside?

i don't think that will be the case next year. and when your qb play is this bad, it's not that big a risk to find out.

 

[Millhouse]

How about for our N0. 1 WR Chew has a limited skill set. If you want to call Chew a deep threat, fine...but he's not a D1 No.1 WR..not by a long shot

who said chew was their no 1 receiver

 

[Aweart23]

who said chew was their no 1 receiver

He was coming into the season..sure wasn't Lemon then

By the end of the year it may have flipped

Doesn't change the premise that Chew's skill set and our WR's in general have been limited that last two years.

I know I know according to you its all Ryans fault...

Are you suggesting that our WR's are not limited???

 

[Millhouse]

He was coming into the season..sure wasn't Lemon then

By the end of the year it may have flipped

Doesn't change the premise that Chew's skill set and our WR's in general have been limited that last two years.

I know I know according to you its all Ryans fault...

Are you suggesting that our WR's are not limited???

provo and lemon are much better football players than nassib. chew's and nassib's flaws make them completely useless to each other other than when they play bad teams in september

we don't need NFL WR to move out of the 90s on offense.

 

[Aweart23]

provo and lemon are much better football players than nassib. chew's and nassib's flaws make them completely useless to each other other than when they play bad teams in september

we don't need NFL WR to move out of the 90s on offense.

You do realize that the passing offense is in the 50's in yards per game against BCS AQ schools..YPG which is your measuring stick. That's mid point or average. So while we are beating on Nassib all day, the passing offense isn't quite as bad as you make it seem.

BTW thats ahead of the following schools:

Oregon
Alabama
Michigan
Wisconsin
Texas
South Carolina (Go Cocks!)
Nebraska
Florida
Penn State
Ohio State

We badly need a playmaker or two. Someone that forces the DC to pay attention to and game plan for. Until we get one or two of them...you got what you got

 

[Millhouse]

You do realize that the passing offense is in the 50's in yards per game against BCS AQ schools..YPG which is your measuring stick. That's mid point or average. So while we are beating on Nassib all day, the passing offense isn't quite as bad as you make it seem.

BTW thats ahead of the following schools:

Oregon
Alabama
Michigan
Wisconsin
Texas
South Carolina (Go Cocks!)
Nebraska
Florida
Penn State
Ohio State

We badly need a playmaker or two. Someone that forces the DC to pay attention to and game plan for. Until we get one or two of them...you got what you got

unlike some nitwits here who think we're run run pass punt, we have a higher passing ratio than lots of other teams.

Nassib throws for more yards than QBs that don't throw. I'm perfectly happy to concede that

 

[Aweart23]

I'm perfectly happy to concede that

Fair enough...

And you are right we do throw alot..alot more than people think or give credit for..

Just checked and we are #24 in passing attempts in the country...that actually surprises me a bit. I thought we were a bit more balanced...

 

[Chip]

Last yar after the Pinstripe Bowl I overheard Nassib's father explaining that the great game by his son was the result of the receiver's finally catching the ball and indicating that dropped passes are the problem not Ryan's accuracy.

I remember talking to Tim Lane's father the night before the 2005 ND game and him telling me that Perry Patterson was the problem. I wondered if he thought so after we didn't convert that early 4th down.

Parents are funny sometimes. And obviously, very loyal. Ask Craig James.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Why is it that teams with a mediocre or struggling offense always end up at 1st and goal from the 9 or 10 yard line? Or does it just seem that way?

It's nice to have a QB who can spot or anticipate a biltz and make adjustments at the LOS or in the pocket. It seems like quite a few college QBs do a fine job of that sort of thing.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

You're wondering why throwing a ball 30+ yards to a spot while 300 pound monsters are about to smash your face is more difficult than throwing 4 yards to a spot a few milliseconds after a snap with no pressure?

Yes. Noone, including you, seems willing to answer this question. A few seconds and a few yards difference. The 300lbers will always be there.

 

[Scooch]

Yes. Noone, including you, seems willing to answer this question. A few seconds and a few yards difference. The 300lbers will always be there.

OK. Do you have a basketball hoop in your driveway? Go and try and make a free throw. Now try it again, but this time try to hit a half court shot while a friend drives a car at you at 60 MPH.

Please report back on your findings.

 

[SWC75]

Tim Tebow isn't statisticallly a good QB either. Things are going well for him this year.

I think Nassib is a poor man's Tebo. He'a big strong kids whom Marrone said "loves to run but he runs like a fullback." That's why they want him in the pocket. They are scared of losing him to hard hit and having to use Loeb or Kinder. That's why we heed to develop a back-up quarterback so they won't be afraid to use all of Nassib's abilities.

 

[billsin01]

Finally, the system we run on offense means that we're going to have to have that above average OL and those above average WRs if we're going to have any consistent success with Nassib. We didn't have them this year, and if they were on the roster they were very young. Doubtful they'll be developed enough by the start of 2012. Which is the last time Nassib will be our QB.

So long story longer, I don't know where we're going with him at QB, but I know we have some more athletic types behind him who are a bit more raw in terms of the total knowledge of the position. I would like to see one of these guys get a real shot this spring, get a large # of snaps, more reps the better. And be groomed as the future QB as soon as 2012. I think 2012 is the true transitional year on offense, so let's get these guys out there and by the time the ACC hopefully rolls around in 2013, we have all the athletes Marrone recruited starting the year with experience.

I know I'm not always reasonable, but it's going to be overly painful watching this exact same offense again next year.

I agree with most of this -- except the part where you talk about our offensive system, which I have yet to even begin to define. But ultimately, I agree. I think getting whoever is the heir apparent some snaps is absolutely worth it. I also feel like there is absolutely nothing wrong with competition and a fair fight for the starting QB position. I just think most football coaches are loathe to go with the unknown even if the known is a questionable option (remember when RichRod was starting Adam Bednarik over Pat White?).

But I guess my larger point is just that I don't know that I watch Nassib and feel he is the problem. That's absolutely been expressed here, to a large degree. I think a better system yields a better offense and I feel Nassib could lead that offense moderately well.

Oh, I also am really skeptical about any of our backups. Not that I don't hope Hunt is a great player or Kinder, etc. But I just feel like if it was close at all we would have seen someone get some snaps at some point this season.

 

[billsin01]

I think Nassib is a poor man's Tebo. He'a big strong kids whom Marrone said "loves to run but he runs like a fullback." That's why they want him in the pocket. They are scared of losing him to hard hit and having to use Loeb or Kinder. That's why we heed to develop a back-up quarterback so they won't be afraid to use all of Nassib's abilities.

I'm defending Nassib, though I'm not sure comparing him to Tebow -- even a homeless man's tebow -- is a good idea. That said, I do believe he is far more mobile than people think. And Marrone's abject fear of injury makes absolutely zero sense to me. It bothers me.

 

[GoSU96]

If so, it's his father, what do you expect him to say?

parents should keep opinions like that to themselves, and especially to some random fan.

 

[Scooch]

And Marrone's abject fear of injury makes absolutely zero sense to me. It bothers me.

For a big, tough football guy, Marrone sure seems to be afraid of his own shadow sometimes. He coaches so freakin' scared, makes me nuts.

 

[billsin01]

we need to find out if #2 is true. hunt or broyld should give it a shot.

can anyone give me a precedent for a BCS team's qb of a passing offense ranked in the 90s for 2 years straight that got a third year as the starter?

So Millhouse, you've never answered my general question -- and I'm asking this earnestly -- your contention is that the system is fine and the talent is fine and that Nassib is far and away the problem with this offense?

 

[billsin01]

"With great people at all the other positions, we can get by with a below average QB." Okay, gotcha.

So, if we can just improve 10 other positions, we don't have to worry about the most important one? QB is the most important position on the field. I don't think people think we should have another McNabb (as nice as that would be), but we should absolutely ALWAYS have someone better than the starting QB at Ohio or Northern Illinois. Personally, I just want someone that isn't bad. Nassib does not fit that bill, in my opinion.

I agree that generally QB is exceedingly important in college football and can, by himself, take a blah team and make them pretty solid.

But here's what I take issue with:

-- You want someone that "isn't bad" at QB but not Nassib. Who the hell is that on this roster? I mean, if you were advocating bringing in a stud JUCO QB or we had some big-time frosh lined up, etc., I would grant you the point. But your insinuation is that someone else on this roster is "not bad" AND you're defining "bad" as 2700 yards, 21 TDs, 9 picks and a 62% completion rate.

-- Always have someone better than the QB at a MAC school (and yes, I realize that Ohio and N ILL have pretty good QBs)? But honestly, that conference has produced Byron Leftwich, Charlie Frye, Pennington and Roethlistberger. Nate Davis was drafted in the fifth round out of Ball State. I mean, there are plenty of schools that can look at their qbs the last 15 years and not have one as good as the five listed above.

-- We have to improve those other 10 positions regardless. I'm not a huge "we have not talent" guy, but I also think it's clear we need more production and depth pretty much everywhere on offense. A great QB would be nice and certainly would help in the short-term, but there is a lot of work to be done here no matter who is taking snaps next season.

 

[Millhouse]

So Millhouse, you've never answered my general question -- and I'm asking this earnestly -- your contention is that the system is fine and the talent is fine and that Nassib is far and away the problem with this offense?

I think the jury is out on the system because nassib is so bad that, right or wrong, marrone is trying to white knuckle his way through nailbiters by only doing the couple things that nassib isn't really bad at (ie getting rid of the ball instantly to his first receiver no more than 15 yards downfield). i don't mind being the bad guy saying it, plenty of other people think it.

i'm looking forward to finding out. i'm not thrilled about an offense built around tight ends, fullbacks, no rushing production from the qb, and no downfield passing. this pretty much pleases nobody.

 

[kingottoiii]

i'm looking forward to finding out. i'm not thrilled about an offense built around tight ends, fullbacks, no rushing production from the qb, and no downfield passing. this pretty much pleases nobody.

The thing that worries me is our recruiting of so many TEs. That tells me this is Marrone's system we are running now. A pro style O with lots of 2 TE sets. Why would we have 6 scholarship TEs next year (5 of whom are underclassmen) if we are going to use 1 TE sets?

 

[Millhouse]

The thing that worries me is our recruiting of so many TEs. That tells me this is Marrone's system we are running now. A pro style O with lots of 2 TE sets. Why would we have 6 scholarship TEs next year (5 of whom are underclassmen) if we are going to use 1 TE sets?

coaches that love being multiple love tight ends because they can block, run patterns or do both. if we're stuck with a guy who wants to be multiple, that's a better way to do it than having a zillion different formations for everyone to remember

it's not the end of the world, works fine for the patriots and i don't consider them to be a standard pro style o.

i've softened my stance on TE. i still think fullbacks are totally useless. i'd rather just have blockers right from the start than hope the fullback can find someone to hit.

 

[billsin01]

I think the jury is out on the system because nassib is so bad that, right or wrong, marrone is trying to white knuckle his way through nailbiters by only doing the couple things that nassib isn't really bad at (ie getting rid of the ball instantly to his first receiver no more than 15 yards downfield). i don't mind being the bad guy saying it, plenty of other people think it.

i'm looking forward to finding out. i'm not thrilled about an offense built around tight ends, fullbacks, no rushing production from the qb, and no downfield passing. this pretty much pleases nobody.

It's a legitimate view point. I don't view you as a bad guy for saying it, I simply don't really agree with the assertion. I also don't think Nassib throws to his first receiver every time. It will certainly be interesting to watch.