Random Thoughts About the Offense

[Niastri]

I have been thinking about what worked and didn't work in Las Vegas without Freeman available. Since it sounds like that might be our fate for a while, how are we going to score without arguably our most talented player?

I'm only going to talk about the Vegas games, because who cares how we did against the worst teams in the country, and when Freeman was playing?

This is a very weird offensive team. I think it is too simple to say they can't shoot, but maybe that's what it comes down to. The three losses in Vegas, we shot .258 from three point range and .521 from the FT line. We lost the first two games by failing to hit those shots. If the team as a whole shot their career 3 pt averages, we score an extra 6.3 points per game. If the team as a whole shot merely bad (65%) from the FT line, we score an extra 3.1, and that doesn't count missing missing numerous front ends of 1 and 1. Those 10 points were the margin of loss in two games, and Houston especially hurt because we were so bad from the FT line.

On the other hand, we shot .495 from inside the arc, a pretty good percentage. I think we took too many threes, averaging 29.7 from 3 and 31 from 2 in the Vegas games. But, looking at the tape, many of the threes were wide open "quality shots" that we should make at a high percentage. Even Kingz, who came to Syracuse off a 44% season from 3 point range shot .200 (3/15) in Las Vegas, with most of those shots being good shots.

If you are the coach, I am not sure what you can do about good shooters missing good shots at high rates. The tape shows it over and over again, a good offensive set run, a shooter getting a good shot, and a bad miss of the open three point shot. It's maddening as a fan, and it's got to be even worse as the coach.

Many of our offensive baskets come from dribble penetration, either on drive and dish or getting all the way to the basket for easy close range shots. I think at this point Kyle is our offensive MVP. In addition to shooting .714 from the floor, and pulling down 2.7 offensive rebounds per game, he seems elite at setting screens near the basket to prevent shot blockers from contesting layups at the rim. But almost as importantly, the defense seems to respect his ability to receive the pass on the drive and dish. The attention paid to Kyle during dribble penetration is letting guys like George, Starling, Anthony and Kingz get all the way to the basket for layups. I am very impressed with Kyle and his ability to affect the offense even when he only takes a small number of shots per game.

One play we seem to run very successfully is the pick and roll. We have added a little element of the Spanish Pick and Roll as well, where we have two screeners for the ball handler. One sets the primary pick, the other a back pick for the primary defender. In this case, one of the screeners pops, the other rolls to the basket. It is very hard to defend when you have an elite dunker like Kyle rim running, because you are conceding two points if you don't check him very hard. This is causing the defender on the dribbler to be forced to defend coming off a double screen on the way to the basket.

A good passer or elite penetrator (George and Starling should fit those descriptions) should be very dangerous in those conditions. Unfortunately, George had a negative assist to turnover ratio in Vegas, and only attempted 8 two point shots and 14 three pointers. He wasn't getting to the basket, and instead passing it out to 3 point shooters that missed their shots, or he turned it over. Other than George, the team had 20 turnovers combined. George really got exposed by Iowa State, but wasn't great in Vegas in general.

George attempted 0 two point shots in 28 minutes against Iowa State. Instead he had 6 assists and 7 of the teams 18 turnovers and attempted 5 threes, making only 1. One of the knocks against George coming into the season was his finishing at the rim was a little below average, and he seems to be avoiding going to the basket at this point.

Starling, on the other hand, attacked the basket well, and passed well in Vegas, with 3.3 assists and 1 turnover. His willingness ability to finish going to the rim might be the differentiator here. He scored about 10 points on 10 shots. His free throw shooting is a major problem, but he draws fouls and can get to the basket.

Similarly, Kingz and Anthony shot 6/10 and 7/14 going to the basket respectively in Vegas. As a team, we also drew a bunch of fouls going to the basket. While you could argue our FT shooting is so bad that it makes sense to foul us, no coach wants their players fouling out.

I think the team should focus a little more on the four perimeter players mentioned running the Spanish pick and roll. It is a good design for our good dribble penetration players who shoot at low percentages from 3, and emphasizes Kyle who is elite at going to the rim. Sadiq White also fits this category and should be taking minutes from Souare. I think White should be getting more than the 20 minutes per game he averaged in Vegas.

The pick and roll in general, and the pick and roll with the additional back pick gets our guys to the basket and gives Kyle and White chances to get the ball in positions to dunk, which they do at a very high level. As a secondary benefit, it will continue to give guys who should be able to hit a three chances to receive the ball in perfect shooting position and rhythm instead of taking bad, long range shots off the dribble.

We desperately need to stop always kicking it out to the open three point shooter. On most teams an open three point shot is a victory, but for us, going all the way to the basket is probably the better choice.

 

[sufan59]

A lot of the times it’s really as simple as you need the coach to inspire confidence in the players during games to execute. That’s Red challenge today and has been in his coaching tenure. In his pressers, he knows that is a big part of it and he’s trying to do that with new methods which I respect. However, this is Syracuse and power conference basketball, you better get that ability to consistently inspire confidence in your players during games quickly now.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think the majority of our 3pt shots are not off good offensive sets/kickouts.

Kyle should not be the high ball screener.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

We desperately need to stop always kicking it out to the open three point shooter. On most teams an open three point shot is a victory, but for us, going all the way to the basket is probably the better choice.

Thanks for the well thought out post. The three point shooting is definitely a conundrum. Analytics says to drive and dish. That's how you are going to get your most wide open threes. And the corner three is the highest percentage three there is. Even JJ made a couple from there. And the one Kingz finally made, he finally got good arc on the ball. I wasn't thinking his shot was too flat, but once he released the one he made from the left corner, you knew it was good, as soon as he released it.

And, if our guys aren't making threes, the defense will be packed in, so no way to drive to the hoop. Unless, Kyle becomes expertly proficient in sealing off the lane to create open paths to the basket.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have been thinking about what worked and didn't work in Las Vegas without Freeman available. Since it sounds like that might be our fate for a while, how are we going to score without arguably our most talented player?

I'm only going to talk about the Vegas games, because who cares how we did against the worst teams in the country, and when Freeman was playing?

This is a very weird offensive team. I think it is too simple to say they can't shoot, but maybe that's what it comes down to. The three losses in Vegas, we shot .258 from three point range and .521 from the FT line. We lost the first two games by failing to hit those shots. If the team as a whole shot their career 3 pt averages, we score an extra 6.3 points per game. If the team as a whole shot merely bad (65%) from the FT line, we score an extra 3.1, and that doesn't count missing missing numerous front ends of 1 and 1. Those 10 points were the margin of loss in two games, and Houston especially hurt because we were so bad from the FT line.

On the other hand, we shot .495 from inside the arc, a pretty good percentage. I think we took too many threes, averaging 29.7 from 3 and 31 from 2 in the Vegas games. But, looking at the tape, many of the threes were wide open "quality shots" that we should make at a high percentage. Even Kingz, who came to Syracuse off a 44% season from 3 point range shot .200 (3/15) in Las Vegas, with most of those shots being good shots.

If you are the coach, I am not sure what you can do about good shooters missing good shots at high rates. The tape shows it over and over again, a good offensive set run, a shooter getting a good shot, and a bad miss of the open three point shot. It's maddening as a fan, and it's got to be even worse as the coach.

Many of our offensive baskets come from dribble penetration, either on drive and dish or getting all the way to the basket for easy close range shots. I think at this point Kyle is our offensive MVP. In addition to shooting .714 from the floor, and pulling down 2.7 offensive rebounds per game, he seems elite at setting screens near the basket to prevent shot blockers from contesting layups at the rim. But almost as importantly, the defense seems to respect his ability to receive the pass on the drive and dish. The attention paid to Kyle during dribble penetration is letting guys like George, Starling, Anthony and Kingz get all the way to the basket for layups. I am very impressed with Kyle and his ability to affect the offense even when he only takes a small number of shots per game.

One play we seem to run very successfully is the pick and roll. We have added a little element of the Spanish Pick and Roll as well, where we have two screeners for the ball handler. One sets the primary pick, the other a back pick for the primary defender. In this case, one of the screeners pops, the other rolls to the basket. It is very hard to defend when you have an elite dunker like Kyle rim running, because you are conceding two points if you don't check him very hard. This is causing the defender on the dribbler to be forced to defend coming off a double screen on the way to the basket.

A good passer or elite penetrator (George and Starling should fit those descriptions) should be very dangerous in those conditions. Unfortunately, George had a negative assist to turnover ratio in Vegas, and only attempted 8 two point shots and 14 three pointers. He wasn't getting to the basket, and instead passing it out to 3 point shooters that missed their shots, or he turned it over. Other than George, the team had 20 turnovers combined. George really got exposed by Iowa State, but wasn't great in Vegas in general.

George attempted 0 two point shots in 28 minutes against Iowa State. Instead he had 6 assists and 7 of the teams 18 turnovers and attempted 5 threes, making only 1. One of the knocks against George coming into the season was his finishing at the rim was a little below average, and he seems to be avoiding going to the basket at this point.

Starling, on the other hand, attacked the basket well, and passed well in Vegas, with 3.3 assists and 1 turnover. His willingness ability to finish going to the rim might be the differentiator here. He scored about 10 points on 10 shots. His free throw shooting is a major problem, but he draws fouls and can get to the basket.

Similarly, Kingz and Anthony shot 6/10 and 7/14 going to the basket respectively in Vegas. As a team, we also drew a bunch of fouls going to the basket. While you could argue our FT shooting is so bad that it makes sense to foul us, no coach wants their players fouling out.

I think the team should focus a little more on the four perimeter players mentioned running the Spanish pick and roll. It is a good design for our good dribble penetration players who shoot at low percentages from 3, and emphasizes Kyle who is elite at going to the rim. Sadiq White also fits this category and should be taking minutes from Souare. I think White should be getting more than the 20 minutes per game he averaged in Vegas.

The pick and roll in general, and the pick and roll with the additional back pick gets our guys to the basket and gives Kyle and White chances to get the ball in positions to dunk, which they do at a very high level. As a secondary benefit, it will continue to give guys who should be able to hit a three chances to receive the ball in perfect shooting position and rhythm instead of taking bad, long range shots off the dribble.

We desperately need to stop always kicking it out to the open three point shooter. On most teams an open three point shot is a victory, but for us, going all the way to the basket is probably the better choice.

Yeah man, that's what I was gonna say.

To the letter.

 

[Niastri]

Thanks for the well thought out post. The three point shooting is definitely a conundrum. Analytics says to drive and dish. That's how you are going to get your most wide open threes. And the corner three is the highest percentage three there is. Even JJ made a couple from there. And the one Kingz finally made, he finally got good arc on the ball. I wasn't thinking his shot was too flat, but once he released the one he made from the left corner, you knew it was good, as soon as he released it.

And, if our guys aren't making threes, the defense will be packed in, so no way to drive to the hoop. Unless, Kyle becomes expertly proficient in sealing off the lane to create open paths to the basket.

I guess my point of "desperately need to stop always kicking it out to the open three point shooter" is probably over stating things. I probably should have said "need to go to the basket and finish a little more often, we are too predictable in kicking it out instead of finishing at the basket."

A bunch of George's turnovers came from predictable passing, and part of that is that it seems he's reluctant to challenge big men at the rim and instead forced passes which led to live ball turnovers. Even if he gets blocked, Kyle, White, Betsey and Kingz have all proven to be opportunistic offensive rebounders.

 

[Niastri]

I think the majority of our 3pt shots are not off good offensive sets/kickouts.

Kyle should not be the high ball screener.

I strongly disagree. Kyle has shown himself to be a very good passer from the high post, and a threat to drive if left unattended. Both are valuable skills and diversify the offense when he is the screener.

But it is his elite ability to receive the pass and dunk going to the basket off the screen that gives space to the ball handler.

Especially when we are playing double screen pick and roll, I think Kyle should set one of the picks whenever he is out there.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I have been thinking about what worked and didn't work in Las Vegas without Freeman available. Since it sounds like that might be our fate for a while, how are we going to score without arguably our most talented player?

I'm only going to talk about the Vegas games, because who cares how we did against the worst teams in the country, and when Freeman was playing?

This is a very weird offensive team. I think it is too simple to say they can't shoot, but maybe that's what it comes down to. The three losses in Vegas, we shot .258 from three point range and .521 from the FT line. We lost the first two games by failing to hit those shots. If the team as a whole shot their career 3 pt averages, we score an extra 6.3 points per game. If the team as a whole shot merely bad (65%) from the FT line, we score an extra 3.1, and that doesn't count missing missing numerous front ends of 1 and 1. Those 10 points were the margin of loss in two games, and Houston especially hurt because we were so bad from the FT line.

On the other hand, we shot .495 from inside the arc, a pretty good percentage. I think we took too many threes, averaging 29.7 from 3 and 31 from 2 in the Vegas games. But, looking at the tape, many of the threes were wide open "quality shots" that we should make at a high percentage. Even Kingz, who came to Syracuse off a 44% season from 3 point range shot .200 (3/15) in Las Vegas, with most of those shots being good shots.

If you are the coach, I am not sure what you can do about good shooters missing good shots at high rates. The tape shows it over and over again, a good offensive set run, a shooter getting a good shot, and a bad miss of the open three point shot. It's maddening as a fan, and it's got to be even worse as the coach.

Many of our offensive baskets come from dribble penetration, either on drive and dish or getting all the way to the basket for easy close range shots. I think at this point Kyle is our offensive MVP. In addition to shooting .714 from the floor, and pulling down 2.7 offensive rebounds per game, he seems elite at setting screens near the basket to prevent shot blockers from contesting layups at the rim. But almost as importantly, the defense seems to respect his ability to receive the pass on the drive and dish. The attention paid to Kyle during dribble penetration is letting guys like George, Starling, Anthony and Kingz get all the way to the basket for layups. I am very impressed with Kyle and his ability to affect the offense even when he only takes a small number of shots per game.

One play we seem to run very successfully is the pick and roll. We have added a little element of the Spanish Pick and Roll as well, where we have two screeners for the ball handler. One sets the primary pick, the other a back pick for the primary defender. In this case, one of the screeners pops, the other rolls to the basket. It is very hard to defend when you have an elite dunker like Kyle rim running, because you are conceding two points if you don't check him very hard. This is causing the defender on the dribbler to be forced to defend coming off a double screen on the way to the basket.

A good passer or elite penetrator (George and Starling should fit those descriptions) should be very dangerous in those conditions. Unfortunately, George had a negative assist to turnover ratio in Vegas, and only attempted 8 two point shots and 14 three pointers. He wasn't getting to the basket, and instead passing it out to 3 point shooters that missed their shots, or he turned it over. Other than George, the team had 20 turnovers combined. George really got exposed by Iowa State, but wasn't great in Vegas in general.

George attempted 0 two point shots in 28 minutes against Iowa State. Instead he had 6 assists and 7 of the teams 18 turnovers and attempted 5 threes, making only 1. One of the knocks against George coming into the season was his finishing at the rim was a little below average, and he seems to be avoiding going to the basket at this point.

Starling, on the other hand, attacked the basket well, and passed well in Vegas, with 3.3 assists and 1 turnover. His willingness ability to finish going to the rim might be the differentiator here. He scored about 10 points on 10 shots. His free throw shooting is a major problem, but he draws fouls and can get to the basket.

Similarly, Kingz and Anthony shot 6/10 and 7/14 going to the basket respectively in Vegas. As a team, we also drew a bunch of fouls going to the basket. While you could argue our FT shooting is so bad that it makes sense to foul us, no coach wants their players fouling out.

I think the team should focus a little more on the four perimeter players mentioned running the Spanish pick and roll. It is a good design for our good dribble penetration players who shoot at low percentages from 3, and emphasizes Kyle who is elite at going to the rim. Sadiq White also fits this category and should be taking minutes from Souare. I think White should be getting more than the 20 minutes per game he averaged in Vegas.

The pick and roll in general, and the pick and roll with the additional back pick gets our guys to the basket and gives Kyle and White chances to get the ball in positions to dunk, which they do at a very high level. As a secondary benefit, it will continue to give guys who should be able to hit a three chances to receive the ball in perfect shooting position and rhythm instead of taking bad, long range shots off the dribble.

We desperately need to stop always kicking it out to the open three point shooter. On most teams an open three point shot is a victory, but for us, going all the way to the basket is probably the better choice.

i think it comes down to george.

hes talented but doesnt really run the team and take control. he doesnt boss games. he doesnt assert himself...once in a while he will...but he was really taken out of sorts and it hurts the team a lot.

this team needs an APLHA and it has to be george.

the way he didnt even get a shot off last possession vs houston is a perfect microcosm of what im talking about...

its quite ironic that the offense is such a mess despite finally getting a PG that this program hasnt had in years. the offense us BAD and it shouldnt be the case with a good PG.

part of the problem is that there are a lot of mouths to feed - maybe too many - and coherence gets lost in the shuffle...

red needs to not just "let him figure it out"...thats the message I got from the iow st presser...red is like Im not worried about george...well guess what red...you should be.

HE NEEDS YOU!!!!

6 tos and 7 tos in 2 of the vegas games is a cry for help

sort george out and it will fix everyting imo

i fear red has the perspective that george will just figure it out cuz hes a pg and thts not how this is going to work

and I agree about pick and roll...needs to be run and run aggressively...get to the hoop. kyle is a very very good passer for a player of his profile...it can be a deadly weapon for the offense...i like kyle in the pick and roll a lot but need to go HARD at the rim and make teams scared...not just dance around the perimiter and shoot 2 pt fadeaways and 40 3s a game.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

i think it comes down to george.

hes talented but doesnt really run the team and take control. he doesnt boss games. he doesnt assert himself...once in a while he will...but he was really taken out of sorts and it hurts the team a lot.

this team needs an APLHA and it has to be george.

the way he didnt even get a shot off last possession vs houston is a perfect microcosm of what im talking about...

its quite ironic that the offense is such a mess despite finally getting a PG that this program hasnt had in years. the offense us BAD and it shouldnt be the case with a good PG.

part of the problem is that there are a lot of mouths to feed - maybe too many - and coherence gets lost in the shuffle...

red needs to not just "let him figure it out"...thats the message I got from the iow st presser...red is like Im not worried about george...well guess what red...you should be.

HE NEEDS YOU!!!!

6 tos and 7 tos in 2 of the vegas games is a cry for help

sort george out and it will fix everyting imo

i fear red has the perspective that george will just figure it out cuz hes a pg and thts not how this is going to work

and I agree about pick and roll...needs to be run and run aggressively...get to the hoop. kyle is a very very good passer for a player of his profile...it can be a deadly weapon for the offense...i like kyle in the pick and roll a lot but need to go HARD at the rim and make teams scared...not just dance around the perimiter and shoot 2 pt fadeaways and 40 3s a game.

I think it's a lot more than just Red anointing George as the alpha, if that's what you are implying. He already has the keys. And no one is taking them from him.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think it's a lot more than just Red anointing George as the alpha, if that's what you are implying. He already has the keys. And no one is taking them from him.

It’s not just about giving him the keys though… they need to put an offense around him that he knows how to operate in. It’s like we gave someone without a left foot the keys to a manual drive car and said “go figure out how to drive it… we won’t help you”

 

[rocklloyd]

We better start making free throws or else teams will employ the hack a shaq strategy

 

[Grbac]

I say let Kyle cook. Several times I watched Kyle seal off his defender in the post and was never passed the ball. He shoots for a high percentage down low and should have the chance to score more. Too many times the guards put there heads down and go into business for themselves.

 

[hoopsupstate]

There’s a lot of mouths to feed, but a few should go hungry.

 

[Niastri]

Kiyan is not yet a game‑breaking guard. He’s had moments that justify the hype but his poor shooting splits, lack of playmaking and inconsistency against top competition make it clear he’s still raw. The talent is there but unless he tightens up his shot selection and develops more all around impact, he risks being remembered more for his last name than his own production. He shows flashes of Melo‑like scoring, but right now he’s streaky, inefficient, and far from a reliable star. The Carmelo connection and NIL deal with Jordan Brand have amplified expectations, but right now he looks more like a streaky role player than a future first‑rounder. The spotlight is heavy, and he hasn’t consistently risen to it.

He's a very good looking freshman player. Asking him to be a star right away is unreasonable. There are literally one or two true freshman all Americans every year, and he's the next level below them.

Anthony has played very well for a freshman in his first 7 games. He did more good than bad in Las Vegas against some very tough opponents. Nobody should expect him to be a star right away, but he's already a solid rotation player at this point in his career.

If you recall previous freshmen, there is always a learning curve. They all were the best player on their high school teams, usually even with the prep level super teams that are consolidating talent on the high school level. Anthony was no exception. Fitting in on teams that have grown men like Kyle, Kingz and Starling is an adaptation period. Anthony is doing great.

EDIT: I meant to mention his bad 3 point shooting in Vegas. He seems to have a green light, so maybe Kiyan is in a "shoot till you make them" role on this team. I would prefer he be a little more selective, but somebody has to shoot. He is definitely more effective at going to the basket at this point. But, you can't tell a shooter who is open not to shoot. Against the 4 cupcakes, Anthony shot .385 from 3. Was he any less open in Vegas? Maybe, but nobody should be shooting contested threes anyway, and they all should hit open threes at a pretty healthy rate. They just didn't in Vegas... I doubt Anthony has another 1/14 stretch shooting 3s again this season.

 

[Niastri]

I say let Kyle cook. Several times I watched Kyle seal off his defender in the post and was never passed the ball. He shoots for a high percentage down low and should have the chance to score more. Too many times the guards put there heads down and go into business for themselves.

Very good point, Kyle does have a history of a pretty effective post game, though at a lower level.

I think with his added bulk and athleticism, Kyle could be a guy who can get baskets in the post. I think he is a much better passer than I expected as well, and could play inside out against a lot of teams.

Kyle should be a central part of our offense, not merely a "dunker."

 

[RedtheGOB]

i think it comes down to george.

hes talented but doesnt really run the team and take control. he doesnt boss games. he doesnt assert himself...once in a while he will...but he was really taken out of sorts and it hurts the team a lot.

this team needs an APLHA and it has to be george.

the way he didnt even get a shot off last possession vs houston is a perfect microcosm of what im talking about...

its quite ironic that the offense is such a mess despite finally getting a PG that this program hasnt had in years. the offense us BAD and it shouldnt be the case with a good PG.

part of the problem is that there are a lot of mouths to feed - maybe too many - and coherence gets lost in the shuffle...

red needs to not just "let him figure it out"...thats the message I got from the iow st presser...red is like Im not worried about george...well guess what red...you should be.

HE NEEDS YOU!!!!

6 tos and 7 tos in 2 of the vegas games is a cry for help

sort george out and it will fix everyting imo

i fear red has the perspective that george will just figure it out cuz hes a pg and thts not how this is going to work

and I agree about pick and roll...needs to be run and run aggressively...get to the hoop. kyle is a very very good passer for a player of his profile...it can be a deadly weapon for the offense...i like kyle in the pick and roll a lot but need to go HARD at the rim and make teams scared...not just dance around the perimiter and shoot 2 pt fadeaways and 40 3s a game.

I agree on George. To take it a little further. One thing I struggle with is how quick we all are including myself to say our offense is really terrible when the reality is also that we played 3 top 10 defenses in 40 hours over Thanksgiving. That's a ton of pressure on George more than anyone else these last 3 games.

90% of fans posting here are not watching the defense of the other team do all the little things every play. Sure they see steals and blocks, but really most of the time we're all just watchin our guys do stupid crap with the ball or standing around or not running plays. Top 10 defenses figure out the other team's offense faster and make adjustments to make our offense look like garbage.

One of my last unanswered questions is if we will have an acceptable offense when we are not playing top 10 defenses. Can we score 75-80+ every game against defenses that are 25-75 in kenpom. If so that means we're going to have a shot against every ACC team and maybe be on the bubble late in the season, still a longshot with how many games we need to stack.

On the other hand if we can't get to 70 points against the top half of the ACC we might as well get the HC job posted on indeed now.

 

[Sherman20]

I agree on George. To take it a little further. One thing I struggle with is how quick we all are including myself to say our offense is really terrible when the reality is also that we played 3 top 10 defenses in 40 hours over Thanksgiving. That's a ton of pressure on George more than anyone else these last 3 games.

90% of fans posting here are not watching the defense of the other team do all the little things every play. Sure they see steals and blocks, but really most of the time we're all just watchin our guys do stupid crap with the ball or standing around or not running plays. Top 10 defenses figure out the other team's offense faster and make adjustments to make our offense look like garbage.

One of my last unanswered questions is if we will have an acceptable offense when we are not playing top 10 defenses. Can we score 75-80+ every game against defenses that are 25-75 in kenpom. If so that means we're going to have a shot against every ACC team and maybe be on the bubble late in the season, still a longshot with how many games we need to stack.

On the other hand if we can't get to 70 points against the top half of the ACC we might as well get the HC job posted on indeed now.

The issue is that we’re not getting much movement or setting many off ball screens. It’s a ton of high pick and rolls and spacing shooters out, aka standing around the perimeter. We need off ball screens and plays on every possession and they need to teach the guys to cut into the lane and get more movement. I agree that those top 10 defenses (and they are ALL top 10) took away a lot of our options and double teamed George and hedged high on the ball screens. And we didn’t face staunch resistance like that the first four games, so maybe the guys were overwhelmed. But these are experienced players. They should be ready to make quick decisions (Greg Anthony pointed that out repeatedly—that our guys were hesitating too long to make a decision on whether to pass, drive or shoot.) My irritation with Red is he mentions spacing, which you need, but there’s little movement and not consistent off ball screening going on. The offense and play calling, such as it is, is extremely rudimentary, even less sophisticated than JB’s, and the guys look unprepared for how to react to the defense. So they resort to iso ball. I worry that Red and the staff aren’t great teachers/communicators, in addition to not being offensive masterminds. We’ll see what happens over the next month. I remember Red saying last season that offense always takes longer to come around.

 

[Newhouser]

The issue is that we’re not getting much movement or setting many off ball screens. It’s a ton of high pick amd rolls and spacing shooters out, aka standing around the perimeter. We need off ball screens and plays on every possession and they need to teach the guys to cut into the lane and get more movement. I agree that those top 10 defenses (and they are ALL top 10) took away a lot of our options and double teamed George and hedged high on the ball screens. And we didn’t face staunch resistance like that the first four games, so maybe the guys were overwhelmed. But these are experienced players. They should be ready to make quick decisions (Greg Anthony pointed that out repeatedly, that our guys were hesitating too long to make a decision on whether to pass, drive or shoot.) My irritation with Red is he mentions spacing, which you need, but there’s no movement. The offense and play calling, such as it is, is extremely rudimentary, even less sophisticated than JB’s, and the guys look unprepared for how to react to the defense. So they resort to iso ball. I worry that Red and the staff aren’t great teachers/communicators, in addition to not being offensive masterminds. We’ll see what happens over the next month. I remember Red saying last season that offense always takes longer to come around.

lack of movement is insane, especially when we don't have any penetrators who can make the defense react. We need a ton more movement off the ball.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I agree on George. To take it a little further. One thing I struggle with is how quick we all are including myself to say our offense is really terrible when the reality is also that we played 3 top 10 defenses in 40 hours over Thanksgiving. That's a ton of pressure on George more than anyone else these last 3 games.

90% of fans posting here are not watching the defense of the other team do all the little things every play. Sure they see steals and blocks, but really most of the time we're all just watchin our guys do stupid crap with the ball or standing around or not running plays. Top 10 defenses figure out the other team's offense faster and make adjustments to make our offense look like garbage.

One of my last unanswered questions is if we will have an acceptable offense when we are not playing top 10 defenses. Can we score 75-80+ every game against defenses that are 25-75 in kenpom. If so that means we're going to have a shot against every ACC team and maybe be on the bubble late in the season, still a longshot with how many games we need to stack.

On the other hand if we can't get to 70 points against the top half of the ACC we might as well get the HC job posted on indeed now.

all due respect, the goal shouldnt be to squeek in on the bubble...I know that wont be seen as a failure if it happens...but thats how I personally would look at it.

reducing the entire season to how the team does in ACC ignores the reality of how teams are graded these days: this isnt the 90s. non con is very important now.

we're all just watchin our guys do stupid crap with the ball or standing around or not running plays.

yeah well why do you think that is happening? its really not enough of an explanation to put it up to "top 10 defenses"...even though that is partially the reason.

where were the adjustments? what did red try to do to counter this situation other than try different lineup combos and sub patterns. I legit think thats basically 90% of how he gos about trying to combat what other teams do. which is just never going to work as a strategy.

all those double teams were leaving GAPING HOLES in the defenses in Vegas...that shouldve been a gamble not a knockout punch for those teams to employ. 1 or 2 passes and those overloads led to wide open threes and dunks, if not a turnover, usually...if your guys know how to attack it.

George often dribbled off 5 or 10 seconds once across half court...as if the team had that kind of luxury with the clock...it often caused a rushed shot at the end of the clock. or a turnover.

if you wanna do anything in then tournament and not just get blown out once there, its about how you plav vs top 25 not vs 25-75.

 

[RyanCuse44]

They run the same O that JB ran. It's ISO ball, let guys stand around and oh maybe someone will come up and do a pick and roll.

 

[upperdeck]

I don't care that we don't move enough off the ball. We got more than enough open looks in those 3 games. I just wish we were a little more aggressive moving towards the rim when the shots go up. Fine youy are standing at the 3 pt line in case a pass comes your way but that doesnt mean all 4 guys just watch the shot and head back on D. We need those 4-5 more possessions a game.