Ranked ?

[jncuse]

 

[DoctorBombay]

The running narrative about SU right now is that, we're a below "average" team that can't shoot. That's the pundits selling us a little short, IMO.
Personally, I'd rather NOT be ranked, at least not yet. Keep getting better, and peak late Feb to early March when it really matters. Everything else is just rhetoric.

 

[NateW]

It doesn’t mean anything... but it’s kinda silly that a 9-1 Syracuse team isn’t ranked.

 

[jncuse]

Still with 2 votes. But moved up from T43, up to T38.

I was expecting a few more votes, but as I said a win over Georgetown is not a big mover.

Here is the reality.
1. Georgetown is totally irrelevant on a national scope.
2. Georgetown has zero respect.
3. A win over Georgetown on the road is viewed as irrelevant.

For us the win was important, but for most it was just another win against a decent team.

And not from an AP perspective, I just don't think we are top 25 -- this us supported by almost all analytical ranking measures. But we are on track and that it was it most important.

 

[Eric15]

That's why early polls are BS

But aren't the ebbs and flows of week to week rankings part of what makes the season entertaining?

 

[Waltdods]

In the absence of significant wins or losses (or lots of losses), you tend to stay where you are based upon the pre-season perception of the voters. That's why early polls are BS and that's why a comparison of the end of year polls (actually based on data) to the pre-season polls show that.

I think this (while logical) is actually false. Studies seem to show the preseason polls being surprisingly predictive,. Here's a couple articles that make this point, one about football and one about basketball. I think the intuition is that in-season people over-react too much to small sample-size results, and that in the longer run talent and coaching are powerful drivers of results (and the preseason polls do a pretty good job of picking up talent and coaching). Not to say they're flawless, obviously, just that it's wrong to say early polls are useless or that they're even necessarily worth less than polls at the end of the year.

The surprising truth about preseason polls

In N.C.A.A. Tournament, Overachievers Often Disappoint

 

[Townie72]

But aren't the ebbs and flows of week to week rankings part of what makes the season entertaining?

Depends on what entertains you, I guess.

Here's the one thing you can be sure of ... The Top 25 teams in this week's poll are not the best 25 teams in the nation.

I can't get excited about it because I think they are based on a faulty premise through most of the season. They are only a very rough indicator of which the best teams are. And they underestimate teams that improve significantly through the season (as I'm guessing SU will)

It's kind of like we on Syracusefan are going to have a quarter mile race. But instead of us all starting at the same point, we are going to stagger the starting lines by 10 yards. If I am in 5th position (50 yards back from the fisrt runner) and you are in 20th place (150 yards back from me), I can run a little slower than you and still get to the finish line before you do.

There's this inherent bias in the thing because teams that were highly ranked (based upon last year's team) have a head start. And teams like Duke benefit tremendously from this and are over-valued by the voters.

I do enjoy watching teams that were highly ranked tumble down (because it shows how wrong the voters were) And teams that were not highly ranked move to the top as their records and accomplishments overcome the inherent bias.

 

[SoBeCuse]

View attachment 117561
Still with 2 votes. But moved up from T43, up to T38.

I was expecting a few more votes, but as I said a win over Georgetown is not a big mover.

Here is the reality.
1. Georgetown is totally irrelevant on a national scope.
2. Georgetown has zero respect.
3. A win over Georgetown on the road is viewed as irrelevant.

For us the win was important, but for most it was just another win against a decent team.

And not from an AP perspective, I just don't think we are top 25 -- this us supported by almost all analytical ranking measures. But we are on track and that it was it most important.

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Townie72]

I think this (while logical) is actually false. Studies seem to show the preseason polls being surprisingly predictive,. Here's a couple articles that make this point, one about football and one about basketball. I think the intuition is that in-season people over-react too much to small sample-size results, and that in the longer run talent and coaching are powerful drivers of results (and the preseason polls do a pretty good job of picking up talent and coaching). Not to say they're flawless, obviously, just that it's wrong to say early polls are useless or that they're even necessarily worth less than polls at the end of the year.

The surprising truth about preseason polls

In N.C.A.A. Tournament, Overachievers Often Disappoint

Well, football is a lot different from Basketball if only because of the stability of rosters from year to year. And the same teams seem to be at the top of the polls every year because of roster stability and overall program strength.

In the BB example, ND wasn't ranked and then went on to have a very good season and ended up being highly ranked. The fact that these teams are sometimes upset doesn't take away from the fact that the voters were wrong about Notre Dame as the season proved.

A better analysis would be to take the Pre-season polls and compare them to the final polls in a number of years'. It's more work than I want to do.

By the way, these weren't "overachievers" as the article title suggests. The only thing they overachieved was the perceptions of guessers.

 

[Eric15]

I do enjoy watching teams that were highly ranked tumble down (because it shows how wrong the voters were)

So there you go, we are on the same page about the rankings providing entertainment in the early months of the year. It's nice to have a rough blueprint of where you stand, even if there is bias involved.

 

[Townie72]

View attachment 117561
Still with 2 votes. But moved up from T43, up to T38.

I was expecting a few more votes, but as I said a win over Georgetown is not a big mover.

Here is the reality.
1. Georgetown is totally irrelevant on a national scope.
2. Georgetown has zero respect.
3. A win over Georgetown on the road is viewed as irrelevant.

For us the win was important, but for most it was just another win against a decent team.

And not from an AP perspective, I just don't think we are top 25 -- this us supported by almost all analytical ranking measures. But we are on track and that it was it most important.

How can a logical person rank GU highly?

They stunk last year. They have a new coach who has never coached a college game. They have played absolutely nobody --- except for SU --- and SU is an unknown quantity.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not that it matters but it is nice to see us Ranked?

When exactly do the polls come out ?

There's plenty of time for that. Let's just take care of the rest of the non-conference schedule. Kiss of death, but we could be 14-1 going into the Notre Dame game on January 6th. We would certainly be ranked at that point.

And I never would have believed that in the pre-season looking at this squad. Hell, I wouldn't have believed it after the first couple exhibition games. This team has come a LONG ways in a short time.

 

[Dave85]

Not that it matters but it is nice to see us Ranked?

When exactly do the polls come out ?

Getting closer:

College Basketball Ranking Composite

 

[Jasoncuse]

We wont' be ranked until we beat somebody. Our wins have been good for us, but don't really move the needle nationally.

 

[llandz]

We lost votes this week. We also lost votes last week. The more we win, the lower we go in the polls.

Also women were NOT ranked in the AP poll again. This should be our 3rd week that we are ranked in the Coaches poll. 11-0. Won the Paradise Jam (3 road games, plus other road wins). The coaches get it...but how are we not ranked in AP? Just terrible.

 

[Townie72]

Since 1985, more than 25% of the teams that are ranked in the Pre-Season from #14 to #25 don't even make the NCAA Tournament.

Pre-Season rank - Percentage make tournament
14 75.76%
15 85.29%
16 81.25%
17 63.64%
18 75.76%
19 76.47%
20 78.79%
21 59.26%
22 82.14%
23 71.43%
24 67.86%
25 75.86%

 

[shermstheman]

VPI can shoot the snot out of the ball.

That’s unsettling to envision.

 

[two3zone]

Seth Davis drops UK in his AP Top 25 Poll ballot

Two things:
1) Kentucky fans claiming about lack of respect is pathetic.
2) Kentucky hates Seth Davis too

He moved Purdue up after a win against unranked Butler and lowers UK after a win against a well coached VT team, that is lack of respect.

 

[two3zone]

It doesn’t mean anything... but it’s kinda silly that a 9-1 Syracuse team isn’t ranked.

We need to play better teams.

 

[jncuse]

He moved Purdue up after a win against unranked Butler and lowers UK after a win against a well coached VT team, that is lack of respect.

From Seth Davis having them at #17? Sure..

But the article talks about a lack of respect in general from everybody. That is way off.

As an FYI, winning on a neutral court against Butler is just as difficult as winning a home game against Virginia Tech. One is a rivalry game as well. So your point is not valid in that regard.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don’t care about the rankings but Andy Katz has us 22 in his Power 36.

Andy Katz's Power 36: Who's in the NCAA tournament? (Dec. 18)

 

[20Plus]

The way it works now what sucks is we have to root for Georgetown, Duke,and Connecticut

 

[blust2i3d4]

View attachment 117560

Pollsters really don't like us. We only got very few votes. Not even in top 34.

 

[jncuse]

If you beat good teams you will get noticed. Arizona St at #3.