Realignment back in the news

[SU94]

I think it is easy to assume that the SEC as a whole would accept this Wild West "we pay more" notion. But I don't sense that is ground in reality. Yes, I believe that Bama, Georgia, LSU and Tennessee are likely to embrace this, but I am not sure that schools like Florida, MIssouri, Ole Miss and Vandy would be "all in."

At the end of the day, I think there are a lot more schools that would trend toward fiscal responsibility (most of ACC, Notre Dame, B1G, Stanford, etc.) and keeping a reasonable focus on the intended academic mission than those that would blatantly declare, "we'll do anything/pay anything to win football games, including compromise out academic integrity. We are a football factory first!"

That model works for only about 8-12 schools nationally and a at least few that could be on the list are not likely to sell out their academic souls.

Remember, Athletics Directors won't be making these final decisions.

 

[TerryD]

I find it annoying that the Athletic Director of Notre Dame, the school that is too good to join the ACC or any conference, is discussing how this change might affect the ACC.

As to the substance of the article, I would not be surprised if Congress acted to protect their states' investment into facilities.

24 of 26 of ND's athletic programs play in the ACC. They joined the ACC about a year after Syracuse did.

 

[edowd26]

Nope. Here's the top 100. And here's who exceeds $1 Billion. Here's another thing to keep in mind. Most state schools are forbidden by law from using state funds, including money from the endowment, for athletics. Some are even forbidden to loan the athletic department money.

wow, very interesting. Thank you.

 

[NYCorange]

I wonder if the really smart schools would go independent so that they could set their own rules as they want.

Also, would all athletes have to be paid the same across sports? Inside the same sport? Or could schools offer the top recruits more than the others? So essentially College sports recruiting would be one giant free agency.

 

[orangecuse]

I think it is easy to assume that the SEC as a whole would accept this Wild West "we pay more" notion. But I don't sense that is ground in reality. Yes, I believe that Bama, Georgia, LSU and Tennessee are likely to embrace this, but I am not sure that schools like Florida, MIssouri, Ole Miss and Vandy would be "all in."

At the end of the day, I think there are a lot more schools that would trend toward fiscal responsibility (most of ACC, Notre Dame, B1G, Stanford, etc.) and keeping a reasonable focus on the intended academic mission than those that would blatantly declare, "we'll do anything/pay anything to win football games, including compromise out academic integrity. We are a football factory first!"

That model works for only about 8-12 schools nationally and a at least few that could be on the list are not likely to sell out their academic souls.

Remember, Athletics Directors won't be making these final decisions.

I would disagree, except for Vandy. They're a superior academic school (and private) compared to the rest of the SEC schools.

 

[orangecuse]

24 of 26 of ND's athletic programs play in the ACC. They joined the ACC about a year after Syracuse did.

Yeah, we know. ND's sacred (independence) allegiance that it spews as an institution holds such truth, as gospel...especially for the sanctity that is their holy grail.

 

[Hoo's That]

I wonder if the really smart schools would go independent so that they could set their own rules as they want.

Also, would all athletes have to be paid the same across sports? Inside the same sport? Or could schools offer the top recruits more than the others? So essentially College sports recruiting would be one giant free agency.

The belief (because that's all there can be at this point) is that football, M b-ball, and W b-ball (courtesy of Title IX) would be paid full money. The b-ball players would probably be paid the same amount. Hard to say if it will be the same as football. The sports which allow partials would pay the same percentage of the pay as your partial (25% scholarship = 25% pay), otherwise, there would be several thoousand lawsuits under Title IX. The schools would have a hard time justifying different pay scales since they can't pay teaching assistants different amounts based on their sex.

 

[javadoc]

Well it was nice knowing you guys...

Now you can only pay the players once a year, mind, even if the resulting acronym seems Polynesian.

 

[Toga]

Oklahoma to the B1G.

 

[MikeSU02]

64 teams? Like 4x16? Hmmm. Wasn’t there a poster that’s been predicting that eventuality for like the past 20 years?

I just realized I've been a poster for almost 20 years. Wow.

Bees, I've virtually known you more than most people in my life.

Good call on the 4x16, btw.

 

[elimunelson]

I just realized I've been a poster for almost 20 years. Wow.

Bees, I've virtually known you more than most people in my life.

Good call on the 4x16, btw.

4x16, Maryland Mole, ACC site visits in 2003. Those were the good ole days! Love ya Bees. You are the reason this board has flourished w that type of intel

 

[rrlbees]

I just realized I've been a poster for almost 20 years. Wow.

Bees, I've virtually known you more than most people in my life.

Good call on the 4x16, btw.

Time flies when you’re having fun! Do you go back to the AOL days? There were even a handful before that on prodigy. Led by the grandfather of the community, SUTomcat.

 

[Orangefizz]

Trade NC St to SEC for Vanderbilt.

 

[shantydaze]

The belief (because that's all there can be at this point) is that football, M b-ball, and W b-ball (courtesy of Title IX) would be paid full money. The b-ball players would probably be paid the same amount. Hard to say if it will be the same as football. The sports which allow partials would pay the same percentage of the pay as your partial (25% scholarship = 25% pay), otherwise, there would be several thoousand lawsuits under Title IX. The schools would have a hard time justifying different pay scales since they can't pay teaching assistants different amounts based on their s e x.

I wonder if removing scholarships entirely for football and Men's basketball would take it out of Title IX? The players would simply become employees of the athletic departments. This is where it could become interesting. Workers' compensation laws would apply for the schools. The accounting students could have some real world experience helping the athletes with taxes (especially high earners that, like NFL players, who have to pay state taxes for the different states in which their games). Florida including "no state income tax" as part of its recruiting pitches. Agents! Employment contracts with athletes that could include financial penalties for missing classes, poor performance, and terminating the contract early for the draft or to transfer. Shantydaze having a lot more free time and disposable income because my connection with the football programs of my alma maters would fray and the local NFL team is only 30 minutes away and my alma maters are two hours and 14 hours away.

 

[Alsacs]

Dennis Dodd is a major B1G and John Delaney suckup.
His H0T Takes are just that. He doesn’t understand GORs at all.

 

[MikeSU02]

Time flies when you’re having fun! Do you go back to the AOL days? There were even a handful before that on prodigy. Led by the grandfather of the community, SUTomcat.

No to the AOL site (so maybe I'm overestimating by a few years???), but what I believe was the independent site right after AOL. I still use the wayback machine to take a look at old posts from then.

It was definitely while I was in college (and during my earlier years) and I was at Cuse from 98-02 for undergrad.

 

[Alsacs]

Big XII(10)
ACC (14)
Big Ten (14)
SEC (14)
PAC-12 (12)
ND
is 65.
One of the 64 would have to be left behind to do 4x16.

 

[Toga]

Big XII(10)
ACC (14)
Big Ten (14)
SEC (14)
PAC-12 (12)
ND
is 65.
One of the 64 would have to be left behind to do 4x16.

 

[SU68]

I'd rather have championships than an addition few millions. These institutions are already super wealthy. I am sure Clemson's endowment is over a billion dollars.

Clemson's endowment was $679.6M for FY 2017. In comparison, Syracuse's endowment was $1.2B. Information came from the universities web sites.

 

[rrlbees]

Big XII(10)
ACC (14)
Big Ten (14)
SEC (14)
PAC-12 (12)
ND
is 65.
One of the 64 would have to be left behind to do 4x16.

The 1 is very obvious to me, and it’s not Rutgers.

Somehow, someway, ND would find a way to remain independent.

 

[rrlbees]

No to the AOL site (so maybe I'm overestimating by a few years???), but what I believe was the independent site right after AOL. I still use the wayback machine to take a look at old posts from then.

It was definitely while I was in college (and during my earlier years) and I was at Cuse from 98-02 for undergrad.

Your timeline could be real close. I honestly can’t remrmber when we ent from AOL to the independent site.(

 

[TexanMark]

Your timeline could be real close. I honestly can’t remrmber when we ent from AOL to the independent site.(

Joyce and Fishy might remember. We really need to do a few paragraphs and attach the history somewhere here.

 

[rrlbees]

Joyce and Fishy might remember. We really need to do a few paragraphs and attach the history somewhere here.

Fishy definitely wasn’t, and I’m not sure about Joyce, involved back in the aol days. The next board after aol was something Millhouse found for free.

 

[Scooch]

A few thoughts/questions.

• "As one powerful administrator suggested, you could even envision a certain payback headed the ACC's way." Payback for what? I know earlier in the article, Dodd says, "Tearing apart conferences for the purpose of increased revenue began in earnest 15 years ago. That's when the ACC began a ruthless expansion that eventually killed the Big East and a certain level of gentlemanly conduct among commissioners." But I think that is revisionist history. The ACC was looking at being picked apart, not looking to begin an annexation of the CFB landscape. They reacted defensively in their best interest in order to keep FSU and Clemson in the fold. Not sure what Dodd's axe to grind here is...

I think the ACC expansion in 2003 was aggressive, not defensive. I don't recall there being real threats to the membership then. The ACC wanted to add Miami, BC and SU to create the east coast conference they had talked about since the 90s. But the expansion in 2013 was very much defensive. That was when there was talk of the B1G and SEC swallowing up the league.

Pinning realignment solely on the ACC though is idiotic (hence, Dennis Dodds wrote it). Conference realignment has been constant forever. To another poster's point, modern aggressive realignment dates to the SEC adding Arkansas to get to 12 teams, hastening the destruction of the SWC and adding a conference champion$hip game. Also fair to note the then Pac-10 tried to become the Pac-16 and almost killed the Big 12 had it not been for Texas having a last minute change of heart.

 

[Alsacs]

I think the ACC expansion in 2003 was aggressive, not defensive. I don't recall there being real threats to the membership then. The ACC wanted to add Miami, BC and SU to create the east coast conference they had talked about since the 90s. But the expansion in 2013 was very much defensive. That was when there was talk of the B1G and SEC swallowing up the league.

Pinning realignment solely on the ACC though is idiotic (hence, Dennis Dodds wrote it). Conference realignment has been constant forever. To another poster's point, modern aggressive realignment dates to the SEC adding Arkansas to get to 12 teams, hastening the destruction of the SWC and adding a conference champion$hip game. Also fair to note the then Pac-10 tried to become the Pac-16 and almost killed the Big 12 had it not been for Texas having a last minute change of heart.

Texas A&M is why the PAC-16 didn’t happen.
They were sick of being tied to Texas.
PAC-12 could have gone to 14 in 2010 if they wanted Oklahoma State.
After Texas A&M declines the PAC-10 added Utah and Colorado.
Oklahoma decided to pursue the PAC-12 stil.
The PAC-12 wanted Oklahoma but then decided they didn’t want both Oklahoma schools.
A&M saved the leftover Big XII schools.