Realignment back in the news | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Realignment back in the news

If there are a bunch of teams that want to go pay to play and a bunch of teams that don’t, won’t that just create two new divisions? The best players get payed. So they are what NFL lite ™️? College Football splits it’s fanbase (viewership in half) and then what?

Do you want to pay to watch both the NFL lite and see CFB games?
 
TerryD said:
Jack Swarbrick is on record multiple times that ND will not do
pay for play". Father John Jenkins, ND's president, has said this as well.
Expand...

Not that I am convinced this is going to happen, but if it does...

Just curious as to precisely how you think this will play out for the Irish if Swarbrick "vision" is correct? Irish football is reportedly built upon playing and beating the best programs in the country, at least according to the ND Nation lot. What kind of cobbled schedule do you see ND playing without the likes of the vast majority of big boys they can schedule with ease now? And will said cobbled together schedule be worthy enough for CFP inclusion? If ND has problems recruiting and keeping upper echelon football players now due to academics, what kind of recruiting classes do you think the Irish will get if they refuse to pay for play while the likes of the Big Ten, SEC, B12 teams do? Do you truly believe the vast majority of ND's elite football players will choose the school for academic reasons over getting paid and getting an education at other powerhouse schools? As the schedule is diluted even more than it is now, how long is it before fans start giving up on the Irish altogether?

Cheers,
Neil
 
TheCusian said:
If there are a bunch of teams that want to go pay to play and a bunch of teams that don’t, won’t that just create two new divisions? The best players get payed. So they are what NFL lite ™️? College Football splits it’s fanbase (viewership in half) and then what?

Do you want to pay to watch both the NFL lite and see CFB games?
Expand...
You're 100% right; people will choose one or the other. My guess would be that they will stick with whichever one their favorite team is in and definitely ignore the other's regular season. Whether they watch the other's championship game will be a hit-or-miss, "flip a coin"-type situation.
 
Alsacs said:
Big XII(10)
ACC (14)
Big Ten (14)
SEC (14)
PAC-12 (12)
ND
is 65.
One of the 64 would have to be left behind to do 4x16.
Expand...

DSC02133.JPG
 
omniorange said:
Not that I am convinced this is going to happen, but if it does...

Just curious as to precisely how you think this will play out for the Irish if Swarbrick "vision" is correct? Irish football is reportedly built upon playing and beating the best programs in the country, at least according to the ND Nation lot. What kind of cobbled schedule do you see ND playing without the likes of the vast majority of big boys they can schedule with ease now? And will said cobbled together schedule be worthy enough for CFP inclusion? If ND has problems recruiting and keeping upper echelon football players now due to academics, what kind of recruiting classes do you think the Irish will get if they refuse to pay for play while the likes of the Big Ten, SEC, B12 teams do? Do you truly believe the vast majority of ND's elite football players will choose the school for academic reasons over getting paid and getting an education at other powerhouse schools? As the schedule is diluted even more than it is now, how long is it before fans start giving up on the Irish altogether?

Cheers,
Neil
Expand...


I am not sure it will happen and hope not.

I hope that if the players get paid, that Swarbrick and Jenkins were lying.

But, I don't know that so right now I have to take them at their word.

I think that you miss their point. They are not talking about trying to keep ND football at its current level if this happens.

Swarbrick and Jenkins are talking about dropping down and only playing a group of like minded (and likely private) schools.

It would not be competing for CFP bids or playing powerhouse schools.

It would not be trying to recruit elite players. It would not be on the same level as Alabama, Texas, USC, etc...

It would be playing teams like Duke, Wake, Northwestern, etc..

Heck, that might be a dream come true for the Holy Cross Fathers who run ND and are not comfortable with the football program getting too powerful and "overshadowing academics."

This would give them the "cover" to once again (See Frank Leahy and Lou Holtz) de-emphasize football and have a good reason to do so.

BTW, Jim Delany says the Big Ten would drop to D3 to avoid pay for play.

Do I believe him? Hell, I don't believe anyone. We will have to wait and see.
 
Last edited:
A few things:
  • I dont know how much of the stuff the football factory schools do, passes muster under Title IX, which requires equality in facilities (not just scholarships/opportunities). Clempson just dropped $55m on its football facility. Unless it ponied up another $55m for its women's sports (it does not need to be dollar-for-dollar, just making a point), there is a disparity that would seem to violate Title IX. Here's a fun fact, anyone could bring a complaint against Clempson about this.
  • Just because some schools are willing to pay players, their being in a conference of "like" schools does not guarantee profitability.
  • Likewise, I dont see how Clemson and FSU joining the SEC makes the conference any more money. CBS and ESPN already have strong footholds into South Carolina and Florida, and they are not gaining eyeballs/subscribers elsewhere.
  • I guess there could be a super conference/league of schools that pay players. But all that really amounts to is "minor league football." Maybe its the Northeast in me, but I dont find that appealing.
 
I’d trade FSU for Texas in a heartbeat
 
My initial thoughts on this if it were to happen.

The vast majority of the current P5 schools will participate including the successful private academic juggernauts in either football or basketball like the Notre Dames, Stanfords, Southern Cals, Dukes, etc. - despite any platitudes they have said in the past. They have too much skin in the college athletics game to risk leaving the spotlight college sports shine on their institutions and the vast amount of free publicity that gives them.

Why do I include basketball? Simple. This is going to cost $$$ and the biggest college sports money pot out there happens to be the NCAA tournament, not the CFP. Yes, the CFP gets more attention but the vast majority of that pot already goes to these same P5 programs since it has fewer mouths to feed and it doesn't pay a dime to help the costs of the NCAA organization and all of its employees and expenses for organizing all the other non-revenue generating championships.

So, to get to that pot of money and add it to the CFP pot with a focus more towards a smaller number of institutions than the current 300+, this will mean a split from the NCAAs and the development of a new organization which will take probably three years to even develop. The new umbrella will still likely cover between 100-120 institutions, but the dead weight below will be cut off by some rule of the new organization that limits the membership by budgetary reasons and most likely football participating members from non football participating members based upon that same type of criteria. The days of P5 football schools with annual operating expense budgets below $100 million will be long gone.

Title IX matching will obviously still exist, but players who are paid will no longer be in the matching count. To stave off law suits women basketball players will also be paid. The number of sports sponsored by the new organization will be drastically reduced to most likely football, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's soccer, baseball, softball, ice hockey, men's and women's volleyball, and maybe three or four more. Institutions can have additional sports if they so choose, but they will be at "club" level with no national championships being supported and paid for by the new organization.

Just some of my initial thoughts regarding where this may all lead.

Cheers,
Neil
 
TerryD said:
I am not sure it will happen and hope not.

I hope that if the players get paid, that Swarbrick and Jenkins were lying.

But, I don't know that so right now I have to take them at their word.

I think that you miss their point. They are not talking about trying to keep ND football at its current level if this happens.

Swarbrick and Jenkins are talking about dropping down and only playing a group of like minded (and likely private) schools.

It would not be competing for CFP bids or playing powerhouse schools.

It would not be trying to recruit elite players. It would not be on the same level as Alabama, Texas, USC, etc...

It would be playing teams like Duke, Wake, Northwestern, etc..

Heck, that might be a dream come true for the Holy Cross Fathers who run ND and are not comfortable with the football program getting too powerful and "overshadowing academics."

This would give them the "cover" to once again (See Frank Leahy and Lou Holtz) de-emphasize football and have a good reason to do so.

BTW, Jim Delany says the Big Ten would drop to D3 to avoid pay for play.

Do I believe him? Hell, I don't believe anyone. We will have to wait and see.
Expand...

So, as an Irish football fan, you at least understand the consequences if (and this is a HUGE IF) it does happen. If the tide breaks that way, I personally don't see the likes of Notre Dame, Stanford, Southern Cal, or Duke willingly be left out knowing what the consequences are.

Swarbrick talked a lot about the "greater good" back in 2011 when Pitt and SU left the Big East for the ACC. But eventually, he and the ND administration did the same thing about a year later. Talk is cheap. So I think it is wise not to believe anyone at this moment in time.

Cheers,
Neil
 
For the 4x16
4 Big XII have to go to the PAC-12.
If I were in charge this how I would divide up the 4x16.
IMO the school that gets left out is Iowa State.

PAC-16
Pod 1
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU

Pod 2
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Colorado

Pod 3
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA

Pod 4
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State

SEC
Pod 1
Missouri
Texas A&M
Oklahoma State
Kansas State

Pod 2
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Arkansas

Pod 3
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Pod 4
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina

Big Ten
Pod 1
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
Iowa

Pod 2
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern

Pod 3
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana

Pod 4
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
Illinois

ACC
Pod 1
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Miami (Fl)

Pod 2
Wake
NC State
VPI
Louisville

Pod 3
Duke
UNC
UVA
Notre Dame

Pod 4
Syracuse
Boston College
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
 
Alsacs said:
For the 4x16
4 Big XII have to go to the PAC-12.
If I were in charge this how I would divide up the 4x16.
IMO the school that gets left out is Iowa State.

PAC-16
Pod 1
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU

Pod 2
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Colorado

Pod 3
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA

Pod 4
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State

SEC
Pod 1
Missouri
Texas A&M
Oklahoma State
Kansas State

Pod 2
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Arkansas

Pod 3
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Pod 4
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina

Big Ten
Pod 1
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
Iowa

Pod 2
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern

Pod 3
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana

Pod 4
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
Illinois

ACC
Pod 1
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Miami (Fl)

Pod 2
Wake
NC State
VPI
Louisville

Pod 3
Duke
UNC
UVA
Notre Dame

Pod 4
Syracuse
Boston College
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Expand...

it makes so much sense it'll never happen
 
Alsacs said:
For the 4x16
4 Big XII have to go to the PAC-12.
If I were in charge this how I would divide up the 4x16.
IMO the school that gets left out is Iowa State.

PAC-16
Pod 1
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU

Pod 2
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Colorado

Pod 3
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA

Pod 4
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State

SEC
Pod 1
Missouri
Texas A&M
Oklahoma State
Kansas State

Pod 2
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Arkansas

Pod 3
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Pod 4
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina

Big Ten
Pod 1
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
Iowa

Pod 2
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern

Pod 3
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana

Pod 4
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
Illinois

ACC
Pod 1
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Miami (Fl)

Pod 2
Wake
NC State
VPI
Louisville

Pod 3
Duke
UNC
UVA
Notre Dame

Pod 4
Syracuse
Boston College
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Expand...

As good a guess as any.
 
Alsacs said:
For the 4x16
4 Big XII have to go to the PAC-12.
If I were in charge this how I would divide up the 4x16.
IMO the school that gets left out is Iowa State.

PAC-16
Pod 1
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU

Pod 2
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Colorado

Pod 3
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA

Pod 4
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State

SEC
Pod 1
Missouri
Texas A&M
Oklahoma State
Kansas State

Pod 2
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Arkansas

Pod 3
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Pod 4
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina

Big Ten
Pod 1
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
Iowa

Pod 2
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern

Pod 3
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana

Pod 4
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
Illinois

ACC
Pod 1
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Miami (Fl)

Pod 2
Wake
NC State
VPI
Louisville

Pod 3
Duke
UNC
UVA
Notre Dame

Pod 4
Syracuse
Boston College
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Expand...
Oklahoma to the B1G!
 
Hoo's That said:
You're 100% right; people will choose one or the other. My guess would be that they will stick with whichever one their favorite team is in and definitely ignore the other's regular season. Whether they watch the other's championship game will be a hit-or-miss, "flip a coin"-type situation.
Expand...

Exactly. The only reason I watch any SEC football at all is that they theoretically play on the same field as teams I care about. I already watch the NFL.

And what NE team would do this? Penn St? Zero chance I ever choose to root for them.
 
In 2016-17 these are the institutions that didn't make at least $85 million in revenue based upon the OPE Equity in Athletics site (in alpha order):

Boston College
Georgia Tech
Iowa State
NC State
Northwestern
Oregon State
Pittsburgh
Purdue
Vanderbilt
Wake
Washington State

I would think these are the institutions that will have some tough decisions ahead of them down the road IF pay for play happens. I could see BC, Vandy and Wake giving up on football altogether.

And if that does happen do they join or start a new basketball league or do current P5 conferences become partial hybrids like the Old Big East? Is it possible 4 X 15 will be the new 4 X 16 for football with each of the P4 having 3 basketball only schools?

Cheers,
Neil
 
omniorange said:
So, as an Irish football fan, you at least understand the consequences if (and this is a HUGE IF) it does happen. If the tide breaks that way, I personally don't see the likes of Notre Dame, Stanford, Southern Cal, or Duke willingly be left out knowing what the consequences are.

Swarbrick talked a lot about the "greater good" back in 2011 when Pitt and SU left the Big East for the ACC. But eventually, he and the ND administration did the same thing about a year later. Talk is cheap. So I think it is wise not to believe anyone at this moment in time.

Cheers,
Neil
Expand...


Oh sure, I get it. I always did, from when this issue first arose.

I wouldn't like it very much, at least at first, to say the least.

But, as an Irish fan since 1964, I would likely adapt and keep rooting for the guys in the gold helmets, hoping that they would beat whomever they were playing.
 
ND should just stop being a**holes and join the ACC. West Virginia should come with them.

16 teams, a north and south division. Cutoff line is the Virginia/NC border.

Done. Enough already.

If Maryland wants back in, fine. Boot Louisville. Closer game for me anyway.
 
TerryD said:
Oh sure, I get it. I always did, from when this issue first arose.

I wouldn't like it very much, at least at first, to say the least.

But, as an Irish fan since 1964, I would likely adapt and keep rooting for the guys in the gold helmets, hoping that they would beat whomever they were playing.
Expand...

And I think you would be more the exception rather than the rule. ;)

Let's hope neither of us has to find out in regard to our respective rooting interests.

Cheers,
Neil
 
Wish the ACC would fix the divisions.

Permanent Atlantic
Clemson, NC State, VA Tech, Wake

Permanent Coastal
GA Tech, UNC, UVA, Duke

Rotating Pod 1
FSU, Pitt, SU

Roaring Pod 2
Miami, Louisville, BC

Pod 1 would play the Atlantic one year and the Coastal the next. Over four years they would play everyone home and away.

Pod 1 would play their cross over rival from Pod 2 every year.

Pod 1 would play one of the other teams from Pod 2 every year. Over four years they would play both teams home and away.

The Atlantic would play their cross over rival in the Coastal every year.

The Atlantic would play one of the other Coastal teams every year. Over six years they play all three teams home and away.

Current yearly matchups lost:
GA Tech/UNC/Duke vs VA Tech (now 1 in 3 years)

GA Tech/UNC/Duke/UVA/VA Tech vs Miami/Pitt (now every other year)

VA Tech vs BC (now every other year)

UVA vs Louisville (now every other year)

Clemson/NC State/Wake vs FSU/Louisville/SU/BC (now every other year)

Louisville vs SU/FSU (now every other year)

Miami vs Pitt (now every other year)

For Cuse we would play:

Year 1
Home: Miami, GA Tech, BC, Duke
Away: FSU, UNC, UVA, Pitt

Year 2
Home: FSU, Clemson, Pitt, Wake
Away: VA Tech, Louisville, NC State, BC

Year 3
Home: Louisville, UNC, BC, UVA
Away: FSU, GA Tech, Pitt, Duke

Year 4
Home: FSU, VA Tech, NC State, Pitt
Away: Clemson, Miami, BC, Wake

We would still play in NC every year
We would play in Florida 3 years out of 4
We would play in VA twice in 4
We would play in GA once in 4

That will all help recruiting

By team over 4 years:

4x FSU, Pitt, BC
2x the other 10 teams
 
Chip said:
ND should just stop being a**holes and join the ACC. West Virginia should come with them.

16 teams, a north and south division. Cutoff line is the Virginia/NC border.

Done. Enough already.

If Maryland wants back in, fine. Boot Louisville. Closer game for me anyway.
Expand...

This topic has nothing really to do with "ND football to the ACC".

It might cause the ACC to disband, potentially. But not because of anything to do with ND.
 
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