Reason for rebounding woes

[Knicks411]

That's why I look at the percentages. Just % of available defensive rebounds that we get. It's not good, and it never is. So I'm not that worried, but it's really really bad so far.

 

[007]

We're extending our forwards insanely far out on the wind to contest threes. It looks to me like JB has tweaked the zone to have the forwards extend farther out and then relying on his guards to drop down and get inside position (which our forwards are almost never in a position to get). That's something he can do with four tall guards, though it's still nort the same as having a forward there boxing out. I think the overall package works because we're contesting virtually all threes, though the piece of the package that is defensive rebounding suffers.

Finally!

There are 4 factors in SU's consistently poor defensive rebounding efficiency:

1. How much space the Forwards are required to cover (it is unlike any other 2-3 zone out there at any level); strong side will almost always be out of position to rebound on any shot from the wing, or when hedging to a shooter on their side.

2. Fundamentals - with the exception of Forth and Danny Shayes, all SU big men have left their feet and/or attempted to block shots on just about any shot in the paint. And many times, more than just one players is leaving his feet on any given shot. Again, leaving the player or players out of position to rebound.

3. Boxing Out - combination of factors here; not in position to box out (see #1 & 2), and does not appear to be a point of emphasis (fundamentals). Because of their length/athleticism, SU players tend to overly rely on jumping ability to rebound, rather than boxing out first.

4. Innate ability - we have had very few naturally gifted rebounders (Coleman, Wallace, Melo, Jackson come to mind).

 

[moqui]

That's why I look at the percentages. Just % of available defensive rebounds that we get. It's not good, and it never is. So I'm not that worried, but it's really really bad so far.

there is an old saying about military theorists: amateurs discuss tactics, the professional discuss logistics.

I feel the same way about raw rebounding numbers (especially rebounding margin) - those are for amateurs. To really get a handle on it, you need to look at the percentages.

There is a lot of good discussion in this thread about the reasons for SU's weak defensive numbers. As so many have noted, basically it comes down to (a) the zone and (b) how you play it. The zone puts you at a disadvantage to begin with, but as a team, SU can do better or worse depending on the way the players position themselves. I don't think it is a matter of attitude or hard work - our guy are actually very good natural rebounders, that is why as a team Syracuse ranks in the top 15 in the nation in offensive rebounding percentage. Indeed, for a decade SU has been above average in that category every year, often in the top 30, and occasionally in the top 15.

But, as others have noted, the zone puts our players out of position for rebounding; there is frequently a wing forward far from the basket defending a shooter, the team goes for so many blocks (not just the center, but the weak side defender as well) that often take the blocker(s) out of prime position, and there is usually one or more players preparing to leak out for the break. Plus, your natural instinct is to find a body, box it out, and corral the rebound if it comes into your area. In the zone, there is often nobody to box out. You really need to have good natural instincts about where the board will come to excel on the defensive boards in the zone. That was one of Paul Harris' natural gifts. Even playing out of position and undersized as a forward, he was a killer on the defensive glass. Unfortunately, guys with Harris' instincts are few and far between.

 

[br801]

You really need to have good natural instincts about where the board will come to excel on the defensive boards in the zone. That was one of Paul Harris' natural gifts. Even playing out of position and undersized as a forward, he was a killer on the defensive glass. Unfortunately, guys with Harris' instincts are few and far between.

Excellent point about Harris. Great to see something positive written about the guy. Always one of my favorites. Too bad he wasn't about five inches taller...

 

[General20]

Here are the reasons we are not a great statistical rebounding team. In order.

#1) The teams we are playing are missing a lot more shots than we are, hence more offensive rebounding opportunities.
#2) The zone we play forces teams to take long three point shots, and long three point shots are the best to get offensive rebounds on.
#3)Its hard to box out when playing a 2-3 zone.
#4) We dont have a great rebounder on our team.

 

[007]

Here are the reasons we are not a great statistical rebounding team. In order.

#1) The teams we are playing are missing a lot more shots than we are, hence more offensive rebounding opportunities.
#2) The zone we play forces teams to take long three point shots, and long three point shots are the best to get offensive rebounds on.
#3)Its hard to box out when playing a 2-3 zone.
#4) We dont have a great rebounder on our team.

Statistically speaking, your reason #1 does not hold water. It is harder to get an offensive than a defensive rebound. So, defensive rebounding efficieny should increase the more shots that the other team misses.