Recruiting 2020-2022

Shrmdougluvr

You're more of a game guy.
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,573
Like
7,023
I think that’s reason No. 3 why I hate club lacrosse.
And don't get me wrong, if I thought Shrmdougluvr Jr had the ability to play in college, I would probably shell out $500 for the showcase. It seems a bit much for 2023s-2025s, but I do see the merit more for 2021s and 2022s since most lost their spring school and summer club seasons.
 

NazLax30

2nd String
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
861
Like
691
And don't get me wrong, if I thought Shrmdougluvr Jr had the ability to play in college, I would probably shell out $500 for the showcase. It seems a bit much for 2023s-2025s, but I do see the merit more for 2021s and 2022s since most lost their spring school and summer club seasons.

So much of the club stuff is just a huge money grab. There’s a local summer tournament where I live that is pretty far removed from elite and the organizer clears anywhere from $60,000 to $100,000 every year. It’s ridiculous.
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
Let me begin this post, which may go kinda long, by saying that I know that nobody here cares about my fantasy lacrosse team. But, I will reference it to raise a question that I hope those that watch a lot of HS/summer club lacrosse can help me with.

On the fanlax site we completed our draft for the 2021 season last night. I had the #2 overall pick. I would've drafted Brennan O'Neill if he didn't get picked at #1, but he did, so I picked Owen Hiltz. The only other player I was considering was Brendan Grimes. I usually try to do a fair amount of research before making my first round pick. I watched some full game videos of Culver and Boys Latin. BL actually had a game from 2020 vs. Gonzaga on youtube. Grimes doesn't do a whole heck of a lot during the parts I watched. He doesn't even carry the ball much. Similarly, in the 2019 Culver vs. Hill Academy game, Hiltz wasn't particularly active for Culver. He was running out of the box on offense. I didn't watch the whole game. I probably would've if I'd know for a longer time that I had the #2 pick. I realize neither Hiltz nor Grimes will be the primary ball carrier for either of their college teams, so it makes sense that they're not dominating the ball for their HS teams, but I expected to see more from each of them.

Being underwhelmed by an attackman's full game videos has been a trend for me lately. In my prep for last year's fantasy draft, I had the choice of a number of attackmen who seemed like good choices, including Robert Schain, JJ Sillstrop, Alex Slusher, Mike Long and Pat Kavanaugh. I found some full game videos of Sillstrop and Slusher. Keep in mind those guys were on the west coast, where the talent on a HS team is usually shallower than on the east coast. I was really surprised with how little they each handled the ball during the parts of the game I watched. I pretty quickly decided I wasn't going to draft Slusher so I stopped watching him. I ended up drafting Kavanaugh, even though I don't think I watched any full games of him, but I liked that he was consistently one of the players mentioned as the standouts at the USA u-19 tryouts and scrimmages. I also wanted a QB-style x-attackman if possible, because if you get a good one, they can get a lot of points for your team. Kavanaugh seemed to fit that description.

This doesn't apply to attackmen only. Marshall McGuire has a full game on youtube. He's parked on the crease for a fair amount of the game. He got some dodges, but I would've liked to see him be a little meaner on his dodges considering his size. Maybe the game was a little too settled for him to play that way.

So, am I missing something? Is there enough depth on HS teams that these top 30 recruits don't need to carry the ball for their team? Are HS coaches designing their HS offenses so that these big recruits are not the guys doing the initial dodges, but are taking the shot at the end of the possession?

P.S. I also drafted Liam Ferris with the 77th overall pick, because I really wanted him.
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
Was McGuire’s game a club game or a spring high school game?
HS his junior year. I think the state final. I didn't watch a lot of it. I may be mis-characterizing his role and how he played. I was actually impressed with how controlled he was on his dodge.
 

DoctahLexus

Starter
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
1,242
Like
1,929
Let me begin this post, which may go kinda long, by saying that I know that nobody here cares about my fantasy lacrosse team. But, I will reference it to raise a question that I hope those that watch a lot of HS/summer club lacrosse can help me with.

On the fanlax site we completed our draft for the 2021 season last night. I had the #2 overall pick. I would've drafted Brennan O'Neill if he didn't get picked at #1, but he did, so I picked Owen Hiltz. The only other player I was considering was Brendan Grimes. I usually try to do a fair amount of research before making my first round pick. I watched some full game videos of Culver and Boys Latin. BL actually had a game from 2020 vs. Gonzaga on youtube. Grimes doesn't do a whole heck of a lot during the parts I watched. He doesn't even carry the ball much. Similarly, in the 2019 Culver vs. Hill Academy game, Hiltz wasn't particularly active for Culver. He was running out of the box on offense. I didn't watch the whole game. I probably would've if I'd know for a longer time that I had the #2 pick. I realize neither Hiltz nor Grimes will be the primary ball carrier for either of their college teams, so it makes sense that they're not dominating the ball for their HS teams, but I expected to see more from each of them.

Being underwhelmed by an attackman's full game videos has been a trend for me lately. In my prep for last year's fantasy draft, I had the choice of a number of attackmen who seemed like good choices, including Robert Schain, JJ Sillstrop, Alex Slusher, Mike Long and Pat Kavanaugh. I found some full game videos of Sillstrop and Slusher. Keep in mind those guys were on the west coast, where the talent on a HS team is usually shallower than on the east coast. I was really surprised with how little they each handled the ball during the parts of the game I watched. I pretty quickly decided I wasn't going to draft Slusher so I stopped watching him. I ended up drafting Kavanaugh, even though I don't think I watched any full games of him, but I liked that he was consistently one of the players mentioned as the standouts at the USA u-19 tryouts and scrimmages. I also wanted a QB-style x-attackman if possible, because if you get a good one, they can get a lot of points for your team. Kavanaugh seemed to fit that description.

This doesn't apply to attackmen only. Marshall McGuire has a full game on youtube. He's parked on the crease for a fair amount of the game. He got some dodges, but I would've liked to see him be a little meaner on his dodges considering his size. Maybe the game was a little too settled for him to play that way.

So, am I missing something? Is there enough depth on HS teams that these top 30 recruits don't need to carry the ball for their team? Are HS coaches designing their HS offenses so that these big recruits are not the guys doing the initial dodges, but are taking the shot at the end of the possession?

P.S. I also drafted Liam Ferris with the 77th overall pick, because I really wanted him.
These are some questions that I am far from having any inside knowledge on, but as far as Hiltz is concerned, he dropped over 100 points in each of his two full seasons with Culver as a Soph and Junior. Not Mac Okeefe stats favored heavily towards goals either. He was about even in goals and assists each year. With those kind of numbers at some point along the way he HAD to be the man in charge. You don't put up those numbers barely touching the ball. It is a major bummer that there isn't full footage of all their games. This game with them vs McDonogh with Hiltz as a sophomore is the first one where I really understood the hype. Handles the ball a good deal (despite boatloads of older D1 talent in the lineup), shows off his athletic ability, IQ as a passer, as well as his dodging and insane shooting ability. Very impressive play from a Sophomore.

 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
These are some questions that I am far from having any inside knowledge on, but as far as Hiltz is concerned, he dropped over 100 points in each of his two full seasons with Culver as a Soph and Junior. Not Mac Okeefe stats favored heavily towards goals either. He was about even in goals and assists each year. With those kind of numbers at some point along the way he HAD to be the man in charge. You don't put up those numbers barely touching the ball. It is a major bummer that there isn't full footage of all their games. This game with them vs McDonogh with Hiltz as a sophomore is the first one where I really understood the hype. Handles the ball a good deal (despite boatloads of older D1 talent in the lineup), shows off his athletic ability, IQ as a passer, as well as his dodging and insane shooting ability. Very impressive play from a Sophomore.

Thanks for posting this!
 

NazLax30

2nd String
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
861
Like
691
HS his junior year. I think the state final. I didn't watch a lot of it. I may be mis-characterizing his role and how he played. I was actually impressed with how controlled he was on his dodge.

Interesting. Could have been part of the game plan that day. Maybe he’s just not a quarterback type. Is there a link to the game film?
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
Interesting. Could have been part of the game plan that day. Maybe he’s just not a quarterback type. Is there a link to the game film?
This might be the one and I may be totally wrong with how he played.
 

Shrmdougluvr

You're more of a game guy.
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,573
Like
7,023
This might be the one and I may be totally wrong with how he played.

LOL at Jack Savage winning the draw, and immediately getting lit up by his own wing.
 

OrangWest

Walk On
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
27
Like
19
That sucked for Savage. I am high on him. At 6’ + he looks odd at FO but he is my dark horse. He got a shoutout from Desko at last presser as well.
 

OrangWest

Walk On
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
27
Like
19
I had to look up my old post from last year. Article said he played defense and offense in those games as they were down an LSM. Didn’t come off the field which would might explain camping at crease
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
Let me begin this post, which may go kinda long, by saying that I know that nobody here cares about my fantasy lacrosse team. But, I will reference it to raise a question that I hope those that watch a lot of HS/summer club lacrosse can help me with.

On the fanlax site we completed our draft for the 2021 season last night. I had the #2 overall pick. I would've drafted Brennan O'Neill if he didn't get picked at #1, but he did, so I picked Owen Hiltz. The only other player I was considering was Brendan Grimes. I usually try to do a fair amount of research before making my first round pick. I watched some full game videos of Culver and Boys Latin. BL actually had a game from 2020 vs. Gonzaga on youtube. Grimes doesn't do a whole heck of a lot during the parts I watched. He doesn't even carry the ball much. Similarly, in the 2019 Culver vs. Hill Academy game, Hiltz wasn't particularly active for Culver. He was running out of the box on offense. I didn't watch the whole game. I probably would've if I'd know for a longer time that I had the #2 pick. I realize neither Hiltz nor Grimes will be the primary ball carrier for either of their college teams, so it makes sense that they're not dominating the ball for their HS teams, but I expected to see more from each of them.

Being underwhelmed by an attackman's full game videos has been a trend for me lately. In my prep for last year's fantasy draft, I had the choice of a number of attackmen who seemed like good choices, including Robert Schain, JJ Sillstrop, Alex Slusher, Mike Long and Pat Kavanaugh. I found some full game videos of Sillstrop and Slusher. Keep in mind those guys were on the west coast, where the talent on a HS team is usually shallower than on the east coast. I was really surprised with how little they each handled the ball during the parts of the game I watched. I pretty quickly decided I wasn't going to draft Slusher so I stopped watching him. I ended up drafting Kavanaugh, even though I don't think I watched any full games of him, but I liked that he was consistently one of the players mentioned as the standouts at the USA u-19 tryouts and scrimmages. I also wanted a QB-style x-attackman if possible, because if you get a good one, they can get a lot of points for your team. Kavanaugh seemed to fit that description.

This doesn't apply to attackmen only. Marshall McGuire has a full game on youtube. He's parked on the crease for a fair amount of the game. He got some dodges, but I would've liked to see him be a little meaner on his dodges considering his size. Maybe the game was a little too settled for him to play that way.

So, am I missing something? Is there enough depth on HS teams that these top 30 recruits don't need to carry the ball for their team? Are HS coaches designing their HS offenses so that these big recruits are not the guys doing the initial dodges, but are taking the shot at the end of the possession?

P.S. I also drafted Liam Ferris with the 77th overall pick, because I really wanted him.
I'm just quoting this so others can see it. I'm hoping to get feedback from others on the forum, like powellfan, Zack (MD fan), Sholokov, Jeremy and others. You can disregard my Marshall McGuire comments.
 

OrangWest

Walk On
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
27
Like
19
your question is a good one. Why don’t these kids show a bit more domination and presence on the HS scene?
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
your question is a good one. Why don’t these kids show a bit more domination and presence on the HS scene?
Exactly. I think there are a number of factors playing a role.
 

JeremyCuse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
30,352
Like
29,627
I'm just quoting this so others can see it. I'm hoping to get feedback from others on the forum, like powellfan, Zack (MD fan), Sholokov, Jeremy and others. You can disregard my Marshall McGuire comments.

A few thoughts.

It appears you watched multiple full games for a bunch of attackmen which is commendable to say the least. It can be hard to get a full read on a player though simply based off a few games.

Guys like Grimes and Hiltz are playing on teams with multiple high end D1 guys. They don't have to or need to be the primary ball carrier game in and game out. They may go a game or two as more off the ball threats and then go through a stretch where the offense runs through them and then back to off the ball again. Especially at a place like Culver or the MIAA some of those teams have multiple alpha type attackmen. Cook his Sr year at JD was the main threat and needed the ball in his stick almost every position, for Grimes and Hiltz that is not the case.

Keep in mind that some of these guys in non hot beds even if they play attack are also playing defense maybe involved on the wings and in man up and down. At times a coach maybe having a different player initiate to try and keep a "star" attackmen fresher and to alleviate some of the burden.

It can also be hard to judge without noting the circumstances behind each game and the game plan. For example you may have caught a game where the opposing team made it a point to key in on Hiltz or Grimes or McGuire and they were used more as a decoy role drawing the opposing teams top defender and attention. Perhaps they were dealing with a minor injury or facing a guy they just had a difficult match up with.

Lastly I think you maybe drawing a conclusion from a short sample size. You noted that in the Hiltz game he was running out of the box and you didn't watch the whole game. I think you would have to review a large sample size or 4-5+ games to get a better feel. For example if you watched last years Army game looking for Scanlon you might think "wow he barely touched the ball and wasn't much of a factor", this would give you a different impression then what his actual roll was last year save for that one game.
 

sholokov2

Scout Team
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
326
Like
391
Ohmi - I think I understand what you are seeing from McGuire. I did not watch the whole game, but when he was on offense he often seemed passive and uninvolved, almost lost, as if he could not find his place or position. Then, I saw that he was playing both ways, on the field much of the time. He seemed to be pacing himself. My son played both ways at Albany several years ago. He would call me exhausted after every game. He said he had to take many possessions off on offense to recover from long ssdm turns where he would expend much of his energy. I think McGuire is a good athlete, pretty fast with good eye hand coordination and some skills around the goal. His teammates did not seem to look for him much.

More importantly, I think the coach's schemes were questionable. Lacrosse is a demanding game requiring stamina much like hockey which I played in college. Two minutes on the ice is a decade of constant energy expenditure. I'd like to see McGuire play only offense to really evaluate him.
 

JeremyCuse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
30,352
Like
29,627
Ohmi - I think I understand what you are seeing from McGuire. I did not watch the whole game, but when he was on offense he often seemed passive and uninvolved, almost lost, as if he could not find his place or position. Then, I saw that he was playing both ways, on the field much of the time. He seemed to be pacing himself. My son played both ways at Albany several years ago. He would call me exhausted after every game. He said he had to take many possessions off on offense to recover from long ssdm turns where he would expend much of his energy. I think McGuire is a good athlete, pretty fast with good eye hand coordination and some skills around the goal. His teammates did not seem to look for him much.

More importantly, I think the coach's schemes were questionable. Lacrosse is a demanding game requiring stamina much like hockey which I played in college. Two minutes on the ice is a decade of constant energy expenditure. I'd like to see McGuire play only offense to really evaluate him.

McGuire is only playing O middie here so you will get to do that eval
 

Powellfan

Starter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
1,783
Like
2,199
I'm just quoting this so others can see it. I'm hoping to get feedback from others on the forum, like powellfan, Zack (MD fan), Sholokov, Jeremy and others. You can disregard my Marshall McGuire comments.

Sorry I am late to this - great discussion topic. I have only watched 2 and a half Culver games, so not many full high school games, and my comments are mostly about Hiltz.

In the first game and half I saw of his, you could see the talent Hiltz displayed, but he wasn't lighting up the scoreboard. I watched the game he played against the Hill Academy in 2018 and it seemed like Alex Simmons, now of Denver got most of the scoring done for them that day. From watching Culver, it was much like watching a college program in the sense that every one seemed to get a touch and they moved the ball around pretty unselfishly. Also, it shouldn't surprise since they are a military school, but Culver are really discipled and take a lot of time to run their offensive sets. I don't think there was a shot clock in any of the games I watched, so possessions lasted quite a while. In the games I saw Hiltz he was mostly at midfield, and Culver seemed to run only one line so he was out there for every shift. I think the pace of the game made this doable.

In the McDonough game you really see his talent - sharp passes to the crease, good decision making and a wicked shot. I think he led his team in scoring with 2 goals and 2 assists in a low scoring game that finished 8-7. He probably could have had one or two more goals and a few more assists. His passing was accurate but also risky, he can throw fast skip passes that remind me of the some of the passes I saw from Chase Scanlan last year. They come fast and almost out of nowhere. I didn't see Michael Sowers like dodging and he's certainly not built like a Brennan O'Neil, but he's smart and fast enough where he keeps defenses on their toes. I was struck by how economical his movement was, he's not going to shimey and shake his defender but he's also not stationary, he just knows how to plant his foot correctly, or the correct and efficient angle to take on a dodge. I think he'll fit in well with the offense, whether he's at attack or midfield.

So, long winded answer about Hiltz, but my take away was that at least at Culver, it seemed like it was about the structure of the offense, and the amount of talent that Culver had. This is a tough question to answer since it would involve watching lots of high school lacrosse film, but I wonder if it has something to do with specialization? If coaches see a player with a good shot and just tell him to focus on that to make it really stand out? I know high school lacrosse can be a small world where most of the top teams have multiple high level division 1 bound kids on their team, so coaches might also feel pressure to get everyone noticed. I like how you used McGuire as an example to counterbalance Hiltz since one goes to a bellwether program and another that is not. But part of me thinks that even the kids coming from Oregon or Texas are still going to high schools with a lot of talent concentrated at just a few schools, and those teams have to learn the share the ball just as much as a Culver or Boy's Latin. Sorry such a long response, and there are probably examples that disprove this, but I think it has to do with lots of talent out there concentrated at a few high schools and coaches trying to get everyone involved as much as possible.
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
I want to thank everyone who replied to my long post on here. Another player who I watched in most of a full game and was shocked at how little he handled the ball was Eric Malever from UMd. There was just one game available on youtube and he didn't have nearly as much impact as I anticipated for a top 10 recruit. But, the responses on here have helped me understand what I'm seeing. I haven't been around a HS team in a long time, so I needed your help understanding it.
 

ivorytower

Starter
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
1,277
Like
1,577
Let me begin this post, which may go kinda long, by saying that I know that nobody here cares about my fantasy lacrosse team. But, I will reference it to raise a question that I hope those that watch a lot of HS/summer club lacrosse can help me with.

On the fanlax site we completed our draft for the 2021 season last night. I had the #2 overall pick. I would've drafted Brennan O'Neill if he didn't get picked at #1, but he did, so I picked Owen Hiltz. The only other player I was considering was Brendan Grimes. I usually try to do a fair amount of research before making my first round pick. I watched some full game videos of Culver and Boys Latin. BL actually had a game from 2020 vs. Gonzaga on youtube. Grimes doesn't do a whole heck of a lot during the parts I watched. He doesn't even carry the ball much. Similarly, in the 2019 Culver vs. Hill Academy game, Hiltz wasn't particularly active for Culver. He was running out of the box on offense. I didn't watch the whole game. I probably would've if I'd know for a longer time that I had the #2 pick. I realize neither Hiltz nor Grimes will be the primary ball carrier for either of their college teams, so it makes sense that they're not dominating the ball for their HS teams, but I expected to see more from each of them.

Being underwhelmed by an attackman's full game videos has been a trend for me lately. In my prep for last year's fantasy draft, I had the choice of a number of attackmen who seemed like good choices, including Robert Schain, JJ Sillstrop, Alex Slusher, Mike Long and Pat Kavanaugh. I found some full game videos of Sillstrop and Slusher. Keep in mind those guys were on the west coast, where the talent on a HS team is usually shallower than on the east coast. I was really surprised with how little they each handled the ball during the parts of the game I watched. I pretty quickly decided I wasn't going to draft Slusher so I stopped watching him. I ended up drafting Kavanaugh, even though I don't think I watched any full games of him, but I liked that he was consistently one of the players mentioned as the standouts at the USA u-19 tryouts and scrimmages. I also wanted a QB-style x-attackman if possible, because if you get a good one, they can get a lot of points for your team. Kavanaugh seemed to fit that description.

This doesn't apply to attackmen only. Marshall McGuire has a full game on youtube. He's parked on the crease for a fair amount of the game. He got some dodges, but I would've liked to see him be a little meaner on his dodges considering his size. Maybe the game was a little too settled for him to play that way.

So, am I missing something? Is there enough depth on HS teams that these top 30 recruits don't need to carry the ball for their team? Are HS coaches designing their HS offenses so that these big recruits are not the guys doing the initial dodges, but are taking the shot at the end of the possession?

P.S. I also drafted Liam Ferris with the 77th overall pick, because I really wanted him.
Draft ? Good list mentioned. Kavanaugh gonna be a great pick. His strong rook yr was overlooked in acc because much attention on the Moore. Grays and now Sowers but he led ND attackman in goals as frosh. Had four goals agaisnt a good Richmond D.
Strong resume and lineage . LI kid from Chaminade , not sure people realize his older brother is Matt, a ND great, tewarrton finalist and now PLL star. Kid might turn out to be nearly as good .
 

ohmilax34

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
437
Like
350
Draft ? Good list mentioned. Kavanaugh gonna be a great pick. His strong rook yr was overlooked in acc because much attention on the Moore. Grays and now Sowers but he led ND attackman in goals as frosh. Had four goals agaisnt a good Richmond D.
Strong resume and lineage . LI kid from Chaminade , not sure people realize his older brother is Matt, a ND great, tewarrton finalist and now PLL star. Kid might turn out to be nearly as good .
www.fanlax.com has a fantasy lacrosse league. We used to do it on laxpower before that website went away.
 

Online statistics

Members online
147
Guests online
873
Total visitors
1,020

Top Bottom