Recruiting in 2025 and Beyond Discussion

[LeMoyneCuse]

Not to mention, if you think I dwell on this stuff then i don’t know what to tell you?

You certainly dwell on it here. What are you hoping to get out of it?

 

[baggerbob]

I would completely agree we have raised the floor. I am not a big fan of the recruiting sites but they are used as the standard metric.
Yes we did not get any 5 stars or top 250 players in 25 but if you look at the overall class it’s way above our past classes. If you go back and look in most years we would be lucky to get one .87, a couple .86 and few .85 and the rest below .85. This class most of the players are .88, .87 and .86. If you want to use the star rating as the metric our the 25 class is vastly improved from past years and more in line with the middle or higher to other acc schools.
Now people may continue to criticize because we are not landing multiple 4 stars or top 250 players but the overall class is far better then past classes going back 10 years or more.

And according to ESPN we are 36th ahead of Clemson for this year and their writeup applauds Fran for turning recruiting around at syracuse the last 2 years.

 

[cusefan88]

I agree with the takes here that after you get outside the top 150-200 players nationally it's a bit of a crapshoot. "3 stars" covers a wide array of talent.

What I do think is that Fran Brown is signing players that have more P5 offers compared to Dino and those players are bigger, heavier, and faster.

 

[svennyi]

Interesting thread from David Hale on impact of House Settlement on recruiting and portal. A really interesting nugget was the general consensus that portal talent is down vs 2 years ago, but the money being paid is way higher. The implication being you could have a lot of "bad deals" on your roster, low impact players making a lot of $. Interesting to see that compared with Fran's focus on high school recruiting vs portal.

(can't embed bluesky, so here is the copy paste)


David Hale
‪@adavidhalejoint.bsky.social‬

A lot of coaches are viewing prices as a : Is it wise to spend $1M on a decent-but-not-great OL w/experience or $50K on your backup who hasn't really played but has some upside? You might be better overall with option A, but the margin in $ isn't worth the incremental increase in production.

It also has driven a real understanding of something that's been obvious in NFL circles for a long time: Dead money is very dangerous. "You don't want to pay guys to be watching from the sideline," as 1 coach told me. Yes, landing big names is great -- but the key will be minimizing your mistakes.

Opinions on the portal have shifted a lot, too. Now that more teams can ante up to retain their own players, the consensus among coaches I've spoken to is talent in the portal is a lot than it was 2 years ago, while the $ for transfers has gone way . There aren't a lot of smart investments there.

Note the word "smart." This is CFB, and much of the spending is irrational. I've had coaches tell me guys they had heard awful reports on or guys who got 75 snaps last year on a good team are now getting $900K in the portal. The drive to win mixed with lots of cash = an overheated market.

 

[wfschrec]

Interesting thread from David Hale on impact of House Settlement on recruiting and portal. A really interesting nugget was the general consensus that portal talent is down vs 2 years ago, but the money being paid is way higher. The implication being you could have a lot of "bad deals" on your roster, low impact players making a lot of $. Interesting to see that compared with Fran's focus on high school recruiting vs portal.

(can't embed bluesky, so here is the copy paste)

David Hale
‪@adavidhalejoint.bsky.social‬

A lot of coaches are viewing prices as a : Is it wise to spend $1M on a decent-but-not-great OL w/experience or $50K on your backup who hasn't really played but has some upside? You might be better overall with option A, but the margin in $ isn't worth the incremental increase in production.

It also has driven a real understanding of something that's been obvious in NFL circles for a long time: Dead money is very dangerous. "You don't want to pay guys to be watching from the sideline," as 1 coach told me. Yes, landing big names is great -- but the key will be minimizing your mistakes.

Opinions on the portal have shifted a lot, too. Now that more teams can ante up to retain their own players, the consensus among coaches I've spoken to is talent in the portal is a lot than it was 2 years ago, while the $ for transfers has gone way . There aren't a lot of smart investments there.

Note the word "smart." This is CFB, and much of the spending is irrational. I've had coaches tell me guys they had heard awful reports on or guys who got 75 snaps last year on a good team are now getting $900K in the portal. The drive to win mixed with lots of cash = an overheated market.

It’s common sense … well for most anyway.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Interesting thread from David Hale on impact of House Settlement on recruiting and portal. A really interesting nugget was the general consensus that portal talent is down vs 2 years ago, but the money being paid is way higher. The implication being you could have a lot of "bad deals" on your roster, low impact players making a lot of $. Interesting to see that compared with Fran's focus on high school recruiting vs portal.

(can't embed bluesky, so here is the copy paste)

David Hale
‪@adavidhalejoint.bsky.social‬

A lot of coaches are viewing prices as a : Is it wise to spend $1M on a decent-but-not-great OL w/experience or $50K on your backup who hasn't really played but has some upside? You might be better overall with option A, but the margin in $ isn't worth the incremental increase in production.

It also has driven a real understanding of something that's been obvious in NFL circles for a long time: Dead money is very dangerous. "You don't want to pay guys to be watching from the sideline," as 1 coach told me. Yes, landing big names is great -- but the key will be minimizing your mistakes.

Opinions on the portal have shifted a lot, too. Now that more teams can ante up to retain their own players, the consensus among coaches I've spoken to is talent in the portal is a lot than it was 2 years ago, while the $ for transfers has gone way . There aren't a lot of smart investments there.

Note the word "smart." This is CFB, and much of the spending is irrational. I've had coaches tell me guys they had heard awful reports on or guys who got 75 snaps last year on a good team are now getting $900K in the portal. The drive to win mixed with lots of cash = an overheated market.

This jives with what I've heard from folks around the team too. I mean, the OL that went to Maryland is a great example. Could he be amazing? Sure? But betting almost a million on an unproven p4 linemen is a bold strategy.

 

[bnoro]

Texas? Ummm. yea give me Texas every single year. They were just in the playoffs and will be even better next year.

Even more so show me the schools that recruit like us that are consistently successful.

You keep asking me to do the work while I continue to give you great examples to answer your questions.

Texas was a massive underachiever while landing top 5 classes for almost 10-15 years before this season. Texas A&M had the #1 class in the country in 2022, how did that translate to this season? Kentucky was #14 in 2022, how did that translate this season?

From this year's Final CFP rankings: #9 Boise was #62 in 2022. #10 SMU was #82 in 2022. #12 Arizona State was #103 in 2022. #17 BYU was 56 in 2022. Shall I go on?

There are always outliers and what matters the most will always be coaching, development, retaining your top talents, and bringing in the right guys from the portal.

 

[007]

This jives with what I've heard from folks around the team too. I mean, the OL that went to Maryland is a great example. Could he be amazing? Sure? But betting almost a million on an unproven p4 linemen is a bold strategy.

The same. And for a change, SU has been ahead of the curve when it comes to analyzing how to best spend the available NIL.

The same approach was used for basketball NIL last season. That's why we passed on Lefew when his cost went up. Of course, we also opted to pay up for Lampkin which obviously was a mistake. The margin for error is far smaller relative to football NIL. The program cannot afford to miss on high level NIL offers.

 

[BillSU]

As the Director of Player Evaluation, I get to see EVERY player offered, their physical size, weight training, the skills they have for their position, what they have achieved for the years they have played, and almost as important as everything else their 40 time.

This post has nothing to do with NIL or four- or- five stars players. It has everything to do with the quality of players we are offering under Fran Brown. On the Football Recruiting Board, you get to see every one of my posts for every player offered if you choose to so and I hope you do. I work hard at getting you the best information and picture of every recruit offered by Fran Brown. I have never been so busy since his recruiting began.

For those of you not familiar with me, I was an All-State QB from NJ. I threw, in my senior year, for 20 TDS and ran for 15. I was the NJ State Champion in the 100 YD dash @ 9.7. Recruited and offered by five mid major schools, I chose not to accept the offers because they did not have the major I felt I could be good at, Industrial Design, but Syracuse who did, did not recruit me beyond sending letters with questions wanting my information and promoting Syracuse Football. I am glad things worked out the way they did I have been almost all over the world during a great career in design and am still designing.

So, I walked on to SU and beat out the freshman QB and was awarded a scholarship but had to quit sports at the end of my freshman year because I was leaving classes every day to go to practice. Floyd Little and I would compete with each other at the end of practice during wind sprints - we were both about the same speed. I almost flunked out but went to summer school and got the necessary grades to continue. I‘ve always wanted to evaluate young players and now that Fran Brown is our Head Coach, feel even better about SU and its football program.

The reason I say that is because of the quality of players he is offering from the 2024 class to 2028 - 9. I believe Fran Brown is a gem for us. He has an innate sense about football in who to recruit and has a staff who is following his lead in recruiting. I can say for the three years I have been doing this; this January was the busiest month I have ever had. The staff was hard at it recruiting in the areas some of you have already mentioned on another thread.

One of the biggest changes in recruiting by Fran Brown is individual and team speed. If you have been on the Football Recruiting page you may have noticed that I rate each recruit’s 40 time from Elite 4.0 – 4.39 to Fair- 4.9 – 5.0. Most of his recruits whose 40 speed are available average 4.5 – 4.59 which is fast. The difference in speed is obvious when you watched Sean Tucker, Jackson Meeks, Darrel Gill and most of the WR group, DB’s and RB’s. Speed is important and I have noticed a significant change in 40 times since Fran began. Fran knows that speed is critical for any position and that is why the offers in January were special because of listed and estimated 40 times.

I don’t know how we will do next season but think we have a better chance at winning more games than losing. An example of one of the offers I posted when he was recruited is Darrel Gill. Out of Texas he has developed into a high - quality receiver. He has appeared in 25 games at Syracuse as either a wide receiver or kick returner ... Has 38 receptions for 630 yards and three touchdowns, two carries for six yards, 12 kickoff returns for 262 yards (21.8 avg.) and four tackles in his Orange career. As a sophomore appeared in 12 games with three starts ... Was one-of-five players on the Syracuse roster to have over 500 receiving yards in 2024, to lead the nation ... 31 catches for 570 yards and two touchdowns ... 235 yards across the final three games.

Finally, it is how Fran develops players that is so important. He’s very good at it. You do not get awarded Head Coaching Newcomer of the year by not being the best you can be. GO SU!

 

[anomander]

You certainly dwell on it here. What are you hoping to get out of it?

Just responding to replies

You keep asking me to do the work while I continue to give you great examples to answer your questions.

Texas was a massive underachiever while landing top 5 classes for almost 10-15 years before this season. Texas A&M had the #1 class in the country in 2022, how did that translate to this season? Kentucky was #14 in 2022, how did that translate this season?

From this year's Final CFP rankings: #9 Boise was #62 in 2022. #10 SMU was #82 in 2022. #12 Arizona State was #103 in 2022. #17 BYU was 56 in 2022. Shall I go on?

There are always outliers and what matters the most will always be coaching, development, retaining your top talents, and bringing in the right guys from the portal.

You’ve just mentioned a couple 1 year wonders. We even have a top 25 season every 6 years or so. Boise doesn’t count. I said P4 program. They can beat up on can schedules and then we see what happens. There will be more programs that recruit well that falter due to multiple factors, but the hard part is finding the money ball programs that consistently recruit at Syracuse’s standard that sustain success. You named 1, Arizona St, and they have mostly sucked outside of this year. SMU is taking off under Lashlee. BYU had a decent year, but have been mid against previous non-P4 schedules until this season, that goes for SMU as well.

So again, where are the programs that consistently succeed that recruit on our level besides 1 or 2 outliers. Are you counting on us to be that outlier. If so, here’s to hope.

 

[bnoro]

Just responding to replies

You’ve just mentioned a couple 1 year wonders. We even have a top 25 season every 6 years or so. Boise doesn’t count. I said P4 program. They can beat up on can schedules and then we see what happens. There will be more programs that recruit well that falter due to multiple factors, but the hard part is finding the money ball programs that consistently recruit at Syracuse’s standard that sustain success. You named 1, Arizona St, and they have mostly sucked outside of this year. SMU is taking off under Lashlee. BYU had a decent year, but have been mid against previous non-P4 schedules until this season, that goes for SMU as well.

So again, where are the programs that consistently succeed that recruit on our level besides 1 or 2 outliers. Are you counting on us to be that outlier. If so, here’s to hope.

You can't see the forest through the trees, so there's no point in me wasting my time. Keep being miserable.

 

[anomander]

You can't see the forest through the trees, so there's no point in me wasting my time. Keep being miserable.

Apparently i’m one of the few with eyes wide open. You’ve beat this drum for years and look at the results. Expecting a change is just …. hopeful?

You also can’t seem to provide an example of a money ball program that recruits at our level, but i can’t see the forest through the trees? touché.

 

[Ringostar57]

Money rules. Gotta pay for the jewels.

 

[CbusCuse]

We all know there is a correlation between recruiting rankings and winning football. How could there not be? We also know SU hasnt recruited at a very high level in general for a long time.

But both our HS ranking of 37 and our portal ranking of 24 were excellent for 2024 for SU standards. We had a great portal class as most teams with a new coach should have. There are always a lot of departures with a new coach which means roster holes to fill and system fits to be added.

The fact we don’t have a good portal rating for 2025 is in large part because we have lost very little to the portal. That is a great thing. Would love to see a few higher level additions but not getting too many this year for whatever reason is a little disappointing. But our 2025 HS class rating of 41 is pretty good as well although aided a bit by the large quantity. Not quite as good as 2024 but it seemed a large focus was put on getting the local talent. While class ranking has a large correlation to how good it is, it doesn’t tell the entire story. There are certainly situations that can lead to situations where our players could be better than their ranking. I think this 2025 class is a good example of that because Fran took a large volume of local talent that tends to not get ranked as high and the fact that he took a vey large percentage of his class so early. That should tell you they are solid kids. He isn’t just taking flyers that early. We easily lead the nation in the number of early commits. If Penn state or a suposed higher profile program takes early kids, those kids get evaluated higher. A large factor in player rankings is who are the offers from. When SU takes a kid real early and they don’t have many offers yet, in general he isn’t going to be ranked that highly. And they don’t go back and readjust his ranking unless he gets more offers and then also flips too a higher profile program. So while in general class rankings are fairly accurate, there are system flaws as well.

 

[baggerbob]

We all know there is a correlation between recruiting rankings and winning football. How could there not be? We also know SU hasnt recruited at a very high level in general for a long time.

But both our HS ranking of 37 and our portal ranking of 24 were excellent for 2024 for SU standards. We had a great portal class as most teams with a new coach should have. There are always a lot of departures with a new coach which means roster holes to fill and system fits to be added.

The fact we don’t have a good portal rating for 2025 is in large part because we have lost very little to the portal. That is a great thing. Would love to see a few higher level additions but not getting too many this year for whatever reason is a little disappointing. But our 2025 HS class rating of 41 is pretty good as well although aided a bit by the large quantity. Not quite as good as 2024 but it seemed a large focus was put on getting the local talent. While class ranking has a large correlation to how good it is, it doesn’t tell the entire story. There are certainly situations that can lead to situations where our players could be better than their ranking. I think this 2025 class is a good example of that because Fran took a large volume of local talent that tends to not get ranked as high and the fact that he took a vey large percentage of his class so early. That should tell you they are solid kids. He isn’t just taking flyers that early. We easily lead the nation in the number of early commits. If Penn state or a suposed higher profile program takes early kids, those kids get evaluated higher. A large factor in player rankings is who are the offers from. When SU takes a kid real early and they don’t have many offers yet, in general he isn’t going to be ranked that highly. And they don’t go back and readjust his ranking unless he gets more offers and then also flips too a higher profile program. So while in general class rankings are fairly accurate, there are system flaws as well.

ESPN has us at 36, ahead of Clemson, and 5th or 6th in the ACC. They are quite complementary of how Fran in 2 years has turned recruiting around at Syracuse.