Recruiting

[Van111]

I am being rationale, about the logic that if things are going to change, we have to begin to look more like the schools we want to be like. Look at Penn State, even with the nasty situation they are in, just look. All Big East schools already have recruits, we are becoming worse, not better. We are slowly fading back to the way it was with GR in recruiting. DM is committed to a state that quite frankly doesn't put out alot of talent, and lets face it, we aren't getting the majority of that. ND is killing us in NY. Being rationale is what I have been for the last 10 years, time for rationale to go away.

 

[bnoro]

I am being rationale, about the logic that if things are going to change, we have to begin to look more like the schools we want to be like. Look at Penn State, even with the nasty situation they are in, just look. All Big East schools already have recruits, we are becoming worse, not better. We are slowly fading back to the way it was with GR in recruiting. DM is committed to a state that quite frankly doesn't put out alot of talent, and lets face it, we aren't getting the majority of that. ND is killing us in NY. Being rationale is what I have been for the last 10 years, time for rationale to go away.

You aren't being rational. We can't just "be" a school that we want to be. Once our facilities are upgraded, and once we start winning games, maybe we can. But you just compared us to Penn State and Notre Dame. We aren't even close to that level.

 

[timkay99]

It's not hard to set passing records when we ran option for over two decades at SU. Not saying it's all his fault but he is not nearly as good of a QB as people give him credit for on this board. Just for giggles name the best 5 QB's in your opinion in the Big East last year. As far as no running game we did have a 1,000 yard back two years ina row.

I am curious Nova, as the QB's in the Big East last year, who would you have taken over Nassib? Lot of bad QB play in the conference...

Hard to recruit a difference maker at QB. Most freshman aren't ready to play right away. Those that do, go to football factories.

 

[NovaOrange]

I am curious Nova, as the QB's in the Big East last year, who would you have taken over Nassib? Lot of bad QB play in the conference...

Hard to recruit a difference maker at QB. Most freshman aren't ready to play right away. Those that do, go to football factories.

I would say Geno Smith is head and shoulders above Nassib and I think when it came to head to head play he was outplayed most of the season.

 

[orangejunkie]

Can't believe the unrealistic expectations that gets expressed on this board. We are far from an elite program that can tie up 4* recruits early. I'll be happy to get one or two of those types later in the recruiting cycle. Even that won't happen without a great season where we go "bowling". I really think we won't get those kids until we have a couple winning seasons, plush we have some upgrades in the facilities.

 

[billsin01]

I am being rationale, about the logic that if things are going to change, we have to begin to look more like the schools we want to be like. Look at Penn State, even with the nasty situation they are in, just look. All Big East schools already have recruits, we are becoming worse, not better. We are slowly fading back to the way it was with GR in recruiting. DM is committed to a state that quite frankly doesn't put out alot of talent, and lets face it, we aren't getting the majority of that. ND is killing us in NY. Being rationale is what I have been for the last 10 years, time for rationale to go away.

You're either 16 or completely insane. SU getting commits in June is pretty early and, for a long time about as early as any school ever got commits. But while it would be nice to have some now, it remains really early in the process and they would mean little anyway since you still have to fight to keep that commit until Feb.

I have no idea how good a recruiter Marrone is, but being worried about a lack of commits in April is absurd. And worrying about stars is equally absurd since the Cuse has never, ever brought in a class comprised largely of 4 star and high 3-star kids.

Just relax.

 

[tipphill]

These are what the marquee programs do...they get kids to see the other side by committing early. Sure, they flip flop from time to time, but what they bring to the table is stability in recruiting instead of anxiety. Again, Kamara is an example, not necessarily the guy you have to get, but you can't tell me that having this guy on the board, or someone like him, doesn't make a difference? When you go out and recruit, you tell the next kid, we have player X on the board, how would you like to line up with him, etc, etc.

Again, if we are going to be a Rutgers, or Temple, that is fine the way things are happening. But that is not what I want for SU football. You have to start acting like the big boys and playing like it if we want a contending program, or am I missing something here?

rutgers has recruited extremely well,ru or temple may very well win the big east, the worst thing for us is that schiano is gone

 

[cusestudent]

rutgers has recruited extremely well,ru or temple may very well win the big east, the worst thing for us is that schiano is gone

Rutgers is Rutgers and will compete, but I can't see them being that good without a proven QB. Their defense will carry them. Let's be honest, Temple will be good competition but is just not at the level to compete for a conference title even if it is the Big East.

 

[tipphill]

Rutgers is Rutgers and will compete, but I can't see them being that good without a proven QB. Their defense will carry them. Let's be honest, Temple will be good competition but is just not at the level to compete for a conference title even if it is the Big East.

i believe they are that well coached and that competent--both those schools

 

[All4SU]

If SU were to have a few big successes on the recruiting front, I would like to see it start with DL. Granted, those kids are the most difficult to get because there are so few great DL prospects, and they are in such high demand. After that, I would go with QB.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Really like missing deep ball after deep ball. You still go to that weak excuse as we had no running game, you can't use that when you have a 1,000 yard back unless you are someone who just doesn't understand the game of football. As far as Mackey went he wasn't that good either he shouldn't start over Trudo next year in all honesty. Just wait and see and I will be here to tell you I told you so

give it a rest on the 1000 yard back thing - do you honestly believe that SU had a good rushing attack last year that could keep defenses honest? So SU had 1 featured back over a 12 game season who took probably 90%+ of the carries, had a game against a 1aa, a MAC team and a Sun Belt team and given that averaged 87.5 yds/game - that's your proof of a strong running game? the 1000 yd/back thing is a useless data point given the 12 game seasons now unless you have 2 of them.

 

[cuseincincy]

If SU were to have a few big successes on the recruiting front, I would like to see it start with DL. Granted, those kids are the most difficult to get because there are so few great DL prospects, and they are in such high demand. After that, I would go with QB.

Agreed. A good DL makes your LB's and DB's better and takes pressure off the offense. We gotta get a QB. I am beginning to think that maybe a year of Loeb is in the future. I'd rather that than give the job to a younger player that still isn't what HCDM is looking for but keeps the job because he now has developed experience that a hopefully more talented player doesn't have. The main question is whether Hunt or Broyld are "the guy". If they're not I rather them not get the job. If they are, I want to see them some this year.

 

[All4SU]

Agreed. A good DL makes your LB's and DB's better and takes pressure off the offense. We gotta get a QB. I am beginning to think that maybe a year of Loeb is in the future. I'd rather that than give the job to a younger player that still isn't what HCDM is looking for but keeps the job because he now has developed experience that a hopefully more talented player doesn't have. The main question is whether Hunt or Broyld are "the guy". If they're not I rather them not get the job. If they are, I want to see them some this year.

I'm beginning to think that someone is moving to TE after Spring came breaks up.

 

[OrangeAl]

Attention: Extreme sarcasm alert
I've done a lot of thinking and I've come to the conclusion that we'd be better off if we had a dozen 3 and 4 star recruits committed to us right now.
So why don't we? I'll wait for your answer HCDM!

 

[NovaOrange]

give it a rest on the 1000 yard back thing - do you honestly believe that SU had a good rushing attack last year that could keep defenses honest? So SU had 1 featured back over a 12 game season who took probably 90%+ of the carries, had a game against a 1aa, a MAC team and a Sun Belt team and given that averaged 87.5 yds/game - that's your proof of a strong running game? the 1000 yd/back thing is a useless data point given the 12 game seasons now unless you have 2 of them.

Since when has the 1,000 yard mark not been a running back's goal? Let me know that and then we can talk. Also feel free to name all the college teams with 2 1,000 yard backs last year.

 

[cusestudent]

Since when has the 1,000 yard mark not been a running back's goal? Let me know that and then we can talk. Also feel free to name all the college teams with 2 1,000 yard backs last year.

It's a goal but any back worth his salt is going for 1500 or 2000. Last year 42 players averaged more yards a game than Bailey including two QBs with another right behind him. There were players that played in two less games than him and accrued more yardage. His average yards per carry was outside of the top 50. There were 47 players with 1000 yard seasons last year; not to mention Bailey only scored 6 TD's (Montee Ball scored 33 in comparison). Furthermore the Syracuse rushing attack came in 95th last season with 1445 yards and 3.65 yds/carry. There were four schools that gained over 4000 yards, and most are in the 2000 + yard range. SU's rushing attack was terrible, and Bailey did not have that good of a season.

 

[NovaOrange]

Still waiting on these backfields you two keep claiming have 2 1,000 yard backs once you all give me that answer I will actually take you seriously. Our running game was our best offensive weapon last year because or passing game was such a joke. The offense was so bad that a high school coordinator could game plan to shut it down. Everyone understood the run game was all or nothing for us because they understood we could not stretch the d since we had no vertical WR (who could catch) and a QB who accuracy on the deep ball was laughable. You all are allowed to have your opinions but if you refute that I will really begin to think you didn't watch the games that or you flat out don't understand the game of football

 

[billsin01]

Still waiting on these backfields you two keep claiming have 2 1,000 yard backs once you all give me that answer I will actually take you seriously. Our running game was our best offensive weapon last year because or passing game was such a joke. The offense was so bad that a high school coordinator could game plan to shut it down. Everyone understood the run game was all or nothing for us because they understood we could not stretch the d since we had no vertical WR (who could catch) and a QB who accuracy on the deep ball was laughable. You all are allowed to have your opinions but if you refute that I will really begin to think you didn't watch the games that or you flat out don't understand the game of football

So, wait, what's your point? I mean this earnestly, what are you guys arguing about? The offense was bad. The passing game was boring, not terribly productive and certainly not keeping any offensive coordinators up at night. The running game as well was bad and while Bailey had a nice individual offensive season (particularly if you factor in little to no passing game and a conference full of teams with pretty solid defenses), he certainly wasn't a world beater.

And why are you waiting on a list of teams with 2 1,000-yard backs? I think his point was that a 1,000-yard back doesn't tell you much about a team's ground game b/c that feat in and of itself is not worth as much in a 12-game season (as opposed to when it used to be more like 100 ypg). The bar may be set at 1,000, but it is more likely 1150 or 1200 when you start to say that an individual back is a game-changer.

 

[billsin01]

Furthermore the Syracuse rushing attack came in 95th last season with 1445 yards and 3.65 yds/carry. ... and Bailey did not have that good of a season.

This is a solid post with the numbers highlighted really being the only ones that count -- that ypc number should be at 4 or better (ideally). However, I'd argue Bailey -- as the only ray of light on that offense -- actually was pretty good. It's just that he was what he was, which isn't Delone Carter and certainly isn't Montee Ball, etc.

 

[NovaOrange]

So, wait, what's your point? I mean this earnestly, what are you guys arguing about? The offense was bad. The passing game was boring, not terribly productive and certainly not keeping any offensive coordinators up at night. The running game as well was bad and while Bailey had a nice individual offensive season (particularly if you factor in little to no passing game and a conference full of teams with pretty solid defenses), he certainly wasn't a world beater.

And why are you waiting on a list of teams with 2 1,000-yard backs? I think his point was that a 1,000-yard back doesn't tell you much about a team's ground game b/c that feat in and of itself is not worth as much in a 12-game season (as opposed to when it used to be more like 100 ypg). The bar may be set at 1,000, but it is more likely 1150 or 1200 when you start to say that an individual back is a game-changer.

This all started over me saying Nassib wasn't that good of a QB for us and he countered with we didn't have a good running game. To me I think the running game was the strong point over the passing game so I disagree with people on the board using that as an excuse for Nassib. That's how it's all snow balled. One guy came in claiming you need 2 1,000 yard rushers or close t it to have a solid running game. When that was said I asked them to show me a program that has that still waiting on a response.

 

[NovaOrange]

give it a rest on the 1000 yard back thing - do you honestly believe that SU had a good rushing attack last year that could keep defenses honest? So SU had 1 featured back over a 12 game season who took probably 90%+ of the carries, had a game against a 1aa, a MAC team and a Sun Belt team and given that averaged 87.5 yds/game - that's your proof of a strong running game? the 1000 yd/back thing is a useless data point given the 12 game seasons now unless you have 2 of them.

This is what I was referring to about the 2 1,000 backs as a measuring stick. People on here thing Bailey had a average season which numbers might say but if you look at how many 8 men fronts he faced all year he did darn well considering how much the box was stacked.

 

[billsin01]

This is what I was referring to about the 2 1,000 backs as a measuring stick. People on here thing Bailey had a average season which numbers might say but if you look at how many 8 men fronts he faced all year he did darn well considering how much the box was stacked.

He's merely saying that the 1,000-yard back thing isn't really a viable measuring stick of the running game unless it's b/c you have 2 1,00-yard backs. He's not saying you need to have two 1,000-yard backs to have a good running game. I honestly don't think he was saying the measuring stick has moved from 1000 yard back to two 1000-yard backs.

 

[billsin01]

This all started over me saying Nassib wasn't that good of a QB for us and he countered with we didn't have a good running game. To me I think the running game was the strong point over the passing game so I disagree with people on the board using that as an excuse for Nassib. That's how it's all snow balled. One guy came in claiming you need 2 1,000 yard rushers or close t it to have a solid running game. When that was said I asked them to show me a program that has that still waiting on a response.

I agree with you that running game isn't the reason nassib struggled. I just don't think that 8-man fronts are an excuse for not running the ball. Everyone put 8 in the box vs. the WVU teams with White/slaton -- it did little to slow them down. Navy, Air Force -- same thing. The bottom line is when your running game and your passing game stink it means you've got at least one of the following problems:

1) your talent blows
and/or
2) your system blows

In this case I don't think there's any doubt that a talent upgrade would help but I also tend to question the general system b/c we're not talking about one year, we're talking about 3 and, in all likelihood, 4.

 

[NovaOrange]

He's merely saying that the 1,000-yard back thing isn't really a viable measuring stick of the running game unless it's b/c you have 2 1,00-yard backs. He's not saying you need to have two 1,000-yard backs to have a good running game. I honestly don't think he was saying the measuring stick has moved from 1000 yard back to two 1000-yard backs.

Well my argument regardless for Bailey remains the same he did not have the typical fronts most backs face each game. If you look at each SU game the box was loaded the entire time. It's hard for a running back (unless in high school since the talent is watered down) to excel in an 8 man defensive front all loaded in the box. Line play was okay at best had zero push all season and the opposing defense played gap techniques on us up front really limiting holes for Bailey. I think he was under rated this season going over a 1,000 with the things that he had to face was a nice achievement despite the other rushers in the NCAA numbers. I guess what got me ticked was people using the running game as an excuse for Nassib. The running game has zero percent to do with him missing that many deep balls. To me it’s the other way around Nassib’s lack of stretching the field punished our running game.

 

[NovaOrange]

I agree with you that running game isn't the reason nassib struggled. I just don't think that 8-man fronts are an excuse for not running the ball. Everyone put 8 in the box vs. the WVU teams with White/slaton -- it did little to slow them down. Navy, Air Force -- same thing. The bottom line is when your running game and your passing game stink it means you've got at least one of the following problems:

1) your talent blows
and/or
2) your system blows

In this case I don't think there's any doubt that a talent upgrade would help but I also tend to question the general system b/c we're not talking about one year, we're talking about 3 and, in all likelihood, 4.

I think WVU did zone blocking those years with Slaton (i could be wrong I will ask my boss since he is a die hard WVU guy) and that allows your offensive line to get a little more depth down field and open lanes. We don't do that and the offensive line's push is a big thing when facing a 8 man front and I think that had a lot to do with it. In fairness I think we are short in talent in a lot of areas and it really hurts the play calling but if you know that going into the season I think it then falls on the staff to find a system that fits the players. I hate the veer option but if our line can't get a push it might be the way to go.