Red's gotta learn when Kiyan is cooking

[Scooch]

I do agree that Kiyan needs to play more minutes when he is cooking on offense, but man, he really needs to improve on defense. Him, Donnie and JJ on the court at the same time is not exactly our best defensive lineup, to say the least.

That you mentioned JJ is the key, IMHO. Neither Kiyan nor JJ is good defensively. They’re both very flawed players in both ends of the court.

However, I suspect that with more minutes Kiyan would develop. His ceiling is farrr higher than JJ, whose cake is long since baked.

I’m just so over Red giving Starling 30 minutes as a matter of course. He doesn’t deserve that. There are better options on this roster, Kiyan being just one of them.

 

[CuseTG2003]

I do agree that Kiyan needs to play more minutes when he is cooking on offense, but man, he really needs to improve on defense. Him, Donnie and JJ on the court at the same time is not exactly our best defensive lineup, to say the least.

Kiyan's offensively talented but also a blackhole. Like clockwork, he gets the ball, ball stops (not that it was moving w/ purpose anyway), and he asks for a screen. Yes, he's better than JJ once he gets the ball. Offense needs to run through Donnie, and Kiyan needs to learn to play off of Donnie. Coaching...

 

[Eric15]

Starling started the game off well, but just fell off a cliff in the second half. Those two missed layups in crunch time were beyond frustrating, and I still have no idea what he was thinking when he tried to attack the basket on a 1 on 1 fast break when we needed him to pull the ball out and run clock.

 

[shandeezy7]

That you mentioned JJ is the key, IMHO. Neither Kiyan nor JJ is good defensively. They’re both very flawed players in both ends of the court.

However, I suspect that with more minutes Kiyan would develop. His ceiling is farrr higher than JJ, whose cake is long since baked.

I’m just so over Red giving Starling 30 minutes as a matter of course. He doesn’t deserve that. There are better options on this roster, Kiyan being just one of them.

Yeah, but there are times where Kiyan gets completely stymied trying to work off the dribble and JJ ends up being literally the only guy on the team who can actually do anything to get by his defender and create. It's all match-up dependent, I guess.

That being said, a game like last night, where Kiyan was making things happen on the offensive end, he cannot sit for as long as he did in the second half, especially at a time when we were struggling to put the ball in the basket and JJ wasn't giving much of anything.

 

[shandeezy7]

Kiyan's offensively talented but also a blackhole. Like clockwork, he gets the ball, ball stops (not that it was moving w/ purpose anyway), and he asks for a screen. Yes, he's better than JJ once he gets the ball. Offense needs to run through Donnie, and Kiyan needs to learn to play off of Donnie. Coaching...

Yeah, he's not a great passer at this point. The 2 on 1 fast break that should have been an easy lob to Sadiq that instead became a terrible shot by Kiyan was one example. He missed Sadiq a couple more times on what should have been easy passes for a dunk/layup. Hopefully just a case of being young and the game is fast for him right now, which results in tunnel vision.

 

[CuseTG2003]

Yeah, he's not a great passer at this point. The 2 on 1 fast break that should have been an easy lob to Sadiq that instead became a terrible shot by Kiyan was one example. He missed Sadiq a couple more times on what should have been easy passes for a dunk/layup. Hopefully just a case of being young and the game is fast for him right now, which results in tunnel vision.

Not throwing the oop to Sadiq was egregious and very frustrating. That's the right play 10 out of 10 times. Live and learn. Kid's talented and just needs to time to develop.

 

[RedtheGOB]

I think we all will live with JJ and Kiyan splitting the game 20 minutes each at least to see.

When we play teams without stronger guards Kiyan should be able to play more. Clemson ok maybe not against a bunch 22-23 year old guards that are playing their 100th ACC game.

Maybe Autry saw that the refs just refused to blow whistles on GT late in the 2nd half when they were contesting shots and when alot of Kiyan's game is drawing fouls at the rim he wasn't going to get the call either. Either way it was a mess.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Especially cause JJ wasn’t doing anything out there.

JJ had two great alley oops early.

I was discouraged checking the box score to see those were his only assists of the game.

 

[Orangezoo]

I’m not convinced that Luke is not good enough to play it’s just Red has no clue how to use him given the offensive system is a joke. The guard minutes to me are all coming back to putting too much faith in JJ. JJ should be 12-15 mpg tops. The core ahead of him should be swapping Kiyan with him then Sadiq, Betsey then Souare and JJ. Fennell should have a look to see if he deserves half of those minutes I noted for JJ and a few of Naits in relief. Not that it probably matters given Red is clueless but had he properly used Luke I’d wager he would have gotten comfortable and we could have let JJ be a cheerleader and get his degree. Look , I love JJ as a person and being a local but he is a step above Kaleb Joseph out there for long stretches in terms of awareness and that isn’t good when our starting PG has been quite mediocre to begin with…

Also Fennell’s primary asset is being a smart big guard with a good shot. All he needs to be is a guy who occasionally attacks the close out and runs off screens to be a shooter. That and be a passable defender. I just don’t buy he isn’t good enough and Red has truly struggled with sorting out the right combinations and who should play…

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’m not convinced that Luke is not good enough to play it’s just Red has no clue how to use him given the offensive system is a joke. The guard minutes to me are all coming back to putting too much faith in JJ. JJ should be 12-15 mpg tops. The core ahead of him should be swapping Kiyan with him then Sadiq, Betsey then Souare and JJ. Fennell should have a look to see if he deserves half of those minutes I noted for JJ and a few of Naits in relief. Not that it probably matters given Red is clueless but had he properly used Luke I’d wager he would have gotten comfortable and we could have let JJ be a cheerleader and get his degree. Look , I love JJ as a person and being a local but he is a step above Kaleb Joseph out there for long stretches in terms of awareness and that isn’t good when our starting PG has been quite mediocre to begin with…

Also Fennell’s primary asset is being a smart big guard with a good shot. All he needs to be is a guy who occasionally attacks the close out and runs off screens to be a shooter. That and be a passable defender. I just don’t buy he isn’t good enough and Red has truly struggled with sorting out the right combinations and who should play…

I’ll be honest. I totally forgot about him until you just posted about him.

 

[DomeHolmes]

Just put this in the postgame thread too:

JJ has a TS of 47%. Kiyan is 51.8%.

JJ has a PER of 10.8. Kiyan is 14.3.

JJ has a TO% of 12.1%. Kiyan’s is 12.5%.

JJ’s WS/40 is .091. Kiyan’s is .107.

JJ has started 95 career games. Kiyan has started 2.

By all metrics, JJ isn’t even an average player.

Put JJ on the bench.

Also going into last night‘s game, both had the exact same EFG at 487. So now Kiyan’s is higher there as well.

Kingz EFG was well over 600, despite his three-point shooting. Up there with Kyle. He doesn’t force anything, (except for his one on two fast break yesterday!) but needs to look for his shot more. He is essentially gets the ball the same spots that Anthony gets the ball in, but Anthony is consistently more aggressive.

after Freeman, it would be hard to argue that Kiyan is not our second best iso player.

 

[DomeHolmes]

I think we all will live with JJ and Kiyan splitting the game 20 minutes each at least to see.

When we play teams without stronger guards Kiyan should be able to play more. Clemson ok maybe not against a bunch 22-23 year old guards that are playing their 100th ACC game.

Maybe Autry saw that the refs just refused to blow whistles on GT late in the 2nd half when they were contesting shots and when alot of Kiyan's game is drawing fouls at the rim he wasn't going to get the call either. Either way it was a mess.

I thought the game was being called fairly in the first half, but then there was a 7 to 0 foul discrepancy early the second half. Clearly the refs swallowed their whistles to even things up. Somehow Georgia Tech was getting the Duke/North Carolina whistle. On The out of bounds play that they reviewed for five minutes, Not only did they get the call wrong after replay, but JJ was fouled.

 

[Orangezoo]

I’ll be honest. I totally forgot about him until you just posted about him.

Yeah in fairness I could be way off and he’s not done a lot in very limited minutes but he’s not a project recruit and he has a really smooth jumper and good size with good bball iq. He’s also a willing if not below average defender. He is a lot of things that JJ isn’t ( many P4 guards are) and thus just to me another guy that Red has lost in the mix in terms of properly utilizing all thanks to a never ending commitment to JJ.

 

[Scooch]

I’ll be honest. I totally forgot about him until you just posted about him.

Same. Pre-season wasn’t everyone high on him at least being a rotational piece? He has a lot of experience, does none of that translate to U.S. college hoops? I kinda though we signed him because he was ready to play.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Same. Pre-season wasn’t everyone high on him at least being a rotational piece? He has a lot of experience, does none of that translate to U.S. college hoops? I kinda though we signed him because he was ready to play.

I think he got scared to shoot in our first game back from Vegas and Red never put him back in.

 

[Orangezoo]

Same. Pre-season wasn’t everyone high on him at least being a rotational piece? He has a lot of experience, does none of that translate to U.S. college hoops? I kinda though we signed him because he was ready to play.

Given how badly Red under utilizes Kingz’ skill set in his offense I have a hunch that used properly and given a chance to contribute he would give us more via being a net positive than JJ after settling in. Instead he’s been used randomly and gotten a quick pull without any obvious reason to then see JJ fumble the ball or put up a terrible shot or get smoked again by his man.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Same. Pre-season wasn’t everyone high on him at least being a rotational piece? He has a lot of experience, does none of that translate to U.S. college hoops? I kinda though we signed him because he was ready to play.

Red went with Zephir as the next guard up.

Wild decision, but, I mean...

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think we all will live with JJ and Kiyan splitting the game 20 minutes each at least to see.

When we play teams without stronger guards Kiyan should be able to play more. Clemson ok maybe not against a bunch 22-23 year old guards that are playing their 100th ACC game.

Maybe Autry saw that the refs just refused to blow whistles on GT late in the 2nd half when they were contesting shots and when alot of Kiyan's game is drawing fouls at the rim he wasn't going to get the call either. Either way it was a mess.

JJ did have a good first half. I am not saying that excuses all the time he got later in the game, but he made some nice plays in the first half, including some good looks out of the pick and roll. Kiyan is also more likely to get blown by on defense from what I can see (JJ's dbpm is 1.7 and Kiyans is -.3 for the advanced stat lovers, but I don't think that stat is super useful). It is really matchup dependent. Some games like yesterday the guards are overall weak, I think Kiyan can have more of an impact than JJ and should play more. Against a stronger more athletic backcourt I tend to like JJ more.

I was frustrated with JJs play late but I was frustrated with George's too. The only area from any of our guards that is totally acceptable is Kingz on defense. Our problems are still bigger than JJ and he gets treated like a punching bag here, despite our other options also having weaknesses to their games. I do not think all our problems are solved by making him a permanent bench player.

 

[Orangezoo]

Red went with Zephir as the next guard up.

Wild decision, but, I mean...

Wild indeed considering how often Zephir got beat or fouled. He had a few good moments but clearly showed he is a practice body or garbage time guy and that was pretty evident from day 1. Another questionable decision from Red that lines up with too many of such decisions.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Unfortunately Red has shown literally 0 ability to watch what is happening in the game and make real time adjustments.

He is a freaking pg by trade. How can he be so bad at this?

 

[newmexicuse]

Also going into last night‘s game, both had the exact same EFG at 487. So now Kiyan’s is higher there as well.

Kingz EFG was well over 600, despite his three-point shooting. Up there with Kyle. He doesn’t force anything, (except for his one on two fast break yesterday!) but needs to look for his shot more. He is essentially gets the ball the same spots that Anthony gets the ball in, but Anthony is consistently more aggressive.

after Freeman, it would be hard to argue that Kiyan is not our second best iso player.

As of now Kyle is probably our second best player, after him then George and Kingz. I would say Kayan is fifth best right now. He will probably be our best next season.

 

[kingtidge]

Red's lack of pragmatic substitution patterns isn't getting fixed. It's one of his liabilities as a coach, unfortunately.

Along with his clear loyalty to JJ as our go-to clutch player with top minutes per game and end-of-game ball control. The performance metrics clearly indicate he shouldn't have the ball in his hands that much, nor particularly at the end of games. It's remedial sadly.

 

[Archbold44]

I’m not convinced that Luke is not good enough to play it’s just Red has no clue how to use him given the offensive system is a joke. The guard minutes to me are all coming back to putting too much faith in JJ. JJ should be 12-15 mpg tops. The core ahead of him should be swapping Kiyan with him then Sadiq, Betsey then Souare and JJ. Fennell should have a look to see if he deserves half of those minutes I noted for JJ and a few of Naits in relief. Not that it probably matters given Red is clueless but had he properly used Luke I’d wager he would have gotten comfortable and we could have let JJ be a cheerleader and get his degree. Look , I love JJ as a person and being a local but he is a step above Kaleb Joseph out there for long stretches in terms of awareness and that isn’t good when our starting PG has been quite mediocre to begin with…

Also Fennell’s primary asset is being a smart big guard with a good shot. All he needs to be is a guy who occasionally attacks the close out and runs off screens to be a shooter. That and be a passable defender. I just don’t buy he isn’t good enough and Red has truly struggled with sorting out the right combinations and who should play…

A Syracuse 2025-2026 trend... stating that a Luke is not being given enough PT.

 

[Orangezoo]

A Syracuse 2025-2026 trend... stating that a Luke is not being given enough PT.

A trend? Not seeing anyone else calling it out. Simply pointing out that given the question marks around the coaching decisions and lineups it’s a fair assessment/possibility.

 

[Bulldog04]

I’ve defended a lot of stuff on here, but Clemson, Hofstra and the 2nd half of this game you just simply can’t defend. The lack of feel for the players and what they are doing in the game and then subbing them out is driving me nuts. JJ is awful. He really is and his stats prove it. Kiyan should have played all of the 2nd half last night