Red's gotta learn when Kiyan is cooking | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Red's gotta learn when Kiyan is cooking

IthacaMatt said:
The goal is to win games, right?
Red gave him some tough love yesterday.
Play better, young man.
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Gave Kiyan tough love? For doing what? He was playing really well.

And "play better, man" is a hard case to make when other dudes run around making the same mistakes every game and it doesn't affect their minutes.
 
I'm curious why so many people are into the George-Kingz-Betsey lineup over George-Anthony-Kingz lineup. Kingz at the 3 is working (although I still think he could do more on offense). We've seen Anthony as the starter work. Has Kingz logged any minutes at guard? Why the need to introduce a dynamic that has been tested at all. Anthony as a secondary creator works pretty well. Kingz or Betsey just don't have the game for that.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
I'm curious why so many people are into the George-Kingz-Betsey lineup over George-Anthony-Kingz lineup. Kingz at the 3 is working (although I still think he could do more on offense). We've seen Anthony as the starter work. Has Kingz logged any minutes at guard? Why the need to introduce a dynamic that has been tested at all. Anthony as a secondary creator works pretty well. Kingz or Betsey just don't have the game for that.
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I think there is argument for both and to test effectiveness. Biggest thing is pushing JJ down the pecking order.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
I'm curious why so many people are into the George-Kingz-Betsey lineup over George-Anthony-Kingz lineup. Kingz at the 3 is working (although I still think he could do more on offense). We've seen Anthony as the starter work. Has Kingz logged any minutes at guard? Why the need to introduce a dynamic that has been tested at all. Anthony as a secondary creator works pretty well. Kingz or Betsey just don't have the game for that.
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I’m fine with either. I’m just puzzled why Kingz has had zero 2 guard minutes when that’s what he played at WSU.

That said I believe Kiyan deserves more time. He seems to get tougher love on this board compared to JJ despite being better offensively and having similar defensive warts. He should have played more in each of the past two games.
 
DoctahLexus said:
Agree on the lineup you mention first, but JJ is more suited for backup pg than Kiyan. His passing has improved this year and he is better on defense. Also is more likely to get a step on his man in the lane with his speed. Kiyan is not a very willing passer at this stage.
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He was 2.8 to 2.3 A:T last year in 34 mpg vs 2.4 to 1.5 in 29 mpg this year with a better team around him so not sure if the improvement is really there tbh…. His defense has improved but he still gets beat, especially by smaller guards. So I’m not sure we’ve seen anyone who is clearly better as a backup PG tbh. Not that our starter has been consistently good or much above average.
 
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Scooch said:
I hate piling on JJ, even though I've certainly been guilty of doing just that.

I don't think JJ is our #2 problem in the sense that he's only a problem due to Red's bullheaded use of him. He's part and parcel of our #1 problem = Red.

JJ is who he is, and has been since the day he stepped foot on campus 3 years ago. He's a bench piece who should get 10-20 minutes depending on each game's circumstances. It's entirely on Red for forcing him to be a 32+ minute/game starter.
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JJ probably is a great young man, and it really isn't totally his fault. Red has put him in a bad position where he is counted on doing things he isn't capable of doing. On a good team he is 7th, 8th, or 9th man playing 12 to 15 minutes off the bench. He shouldn't be starting and playing 30 minutes a game.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
I’m fine with either. I’m just puzzled why Kingz has had zero 2 guard minutes when that’s what he played at WSU.

That said I believe Kiyan deserves more time. He seems to get tougher love on this board compared to JJ despite being better offensively and having similar defensive warts. He should have played more in each of the past two games.
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That all makes sense.
 
baggerbob said:
JJ probably is a great young man, and it really isn't totally his fault. Red has put him in a bad position where he is counted on doing things he isn't capable of doing. On a good team he is 7th, 8th, or 9th man playing 12 to 15 minutes off the bench. He shouldn't be starting and playing 30 minutes a game.
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JJ is a fast wing that should be used has a guy who gives you backup minutes to use his pace and do so off the ball to attack the rim and then to be an aggressive defender. He can’t keep his level of effort for long stretches and doesn’t react well when teams make adjustments so short stretches are what he is best suited for. A leader then off the bench as a great teammate. He has never been properly used and over valued based on his limitations at this level.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Gave Kiyan tough love? For doing what? He was playing really well.

And "play better, man" is a hard case to make when other dudes run around making the same mistakes every game and it doesn't affect their minutes.
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I disagree. I don't know he was only charged with 1 turnover in the official box score, because I saw about 3 times he drove into traffic and lost the ball. I wish I could see his plus/minus, because I don't think he played very good defense last game, either.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
He was plus 9.



He also graded out as our third best player according to BPM.

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Vince Carter Sport GIF by Team USA
 
I never know when Kiyan is "cooking." If he hits two shots in a row, the next two could be clankers, accompanied by being stripped twice.

That, and the Doncic-esque defense kinda make him hard to reconcile.
 
Zelda Zonk said:
I never know when Kiyan is "cooking." If he hits two shots in a row, the next two could be clankers, accompanied by being stripped twice.

That, and the Doncic-esque defense kinda make him hard to reconcile.
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I can make it easy for you.

Kiyan is always cooking.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Sometimes when you cook you burn things.
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Remember what we said about Chris Bell?
If he's not hitting 3s, he doesn't really give you anything else.
Thats's kind of how Kiyan is right now as a player.
Yes, he's a better scorer. Yes, Red probably should have used him in the 2nd half against GT.
But he's not tearing it up. That's all I'm saying,
We know he can play better, and I'm sure he will, and soon.
But he's got a lot of parts of his game he needs to work on.
 
IthacaMatt said:
Remember what we said about Chris Bell?
If he's not hitting 3s, he doesn't really give you anything else.
Thats's kind of how Kiyan is right now as a player.
Yes, he's a better scorer. Yes, Red probably should have used him in the 2nd half against GT.
But he's not tearing it up. That's all I'm saying,
We know he can play better, and I'm sure he will, and soon.
But he's got a lot of parts of his game he needs to work on.
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Matt, I think I need to just say this straight out:

I do not care about Kiyan's mistakes or shortcomings. I both do and do not acknowledge them. His three point shooting percentage sucks? No matter.

It is so much more fun to just bask in the sophistication and maturity of his offensive game, at such a young age.

He might be a genius. A savant. Un surdoue.

He can do no wrong.
 
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I loved it when on consecutive 2H possessions they tried to throw lob dunks to akir. They weren’t close. Shows high bball iq
 
Cusefan0307 said:
We should just continue playing JJ Starling 35 minutes and watch him go 4 for 12 playing equally terrible defense as Kiyan because he’s a senior!
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I don’t think that’s it. The coaches watch practices. JJ is a lot more physical than Anthony, who still has a high school body, like White, and plays matador defense.
 
IthacaMatt said:
Remember what we said about Chris Bell?
If he's not hitting 3s, he doesn't really give you anything else.
Thats's kind of how Kiyan is right now as a player.
Yes, he's a better scorer. Yes, Red probably should have used him in the 2nd half against GT.
But he's not tearing it up. That's all I'm saying,
We know he can play better, and I'm sure he will, and soon.
But he's got a lot of parts of his game he needs to work on.
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But you have a senior getting 30 minutes who isn't going to get any better at this stage of his career. At least with Kiyan by playing he has a chance to get comfortable, and will get better. That is your best chance for this team to maybe get good enough to be a good team at years end.
Playing JJ more then 15-18 minutes as a backup is what's best for this team.
If Red can't see that then he will be gone at the end of the year.
 

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