Red's gotta learn when Kiyan is cooking

[Cusefan0307]

I don’t think that’s it. The coaches watch practices. JJ is a lot more physical than Anthony, who still has a high school body, like White, and plays matador defense.

This is what we heard when JB was coach too. Starling has been beyond awful(33/19/60) against power conference opponents outside of one half against Tennessee going back to the end of last January and he’s not a good defender himself. Anthony has way more upside.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Matt, I think I need to just say this straight out:

I do not care about Kiyan's mistakes or shortcomings. I both do and do not acknowledge them. His three point shooting percentage sucks? No matter.

It is so much more fun to just bask in the sophistication and maturity of his offensive game, at such a young age.

He might be a genius. A savant. Un surdoue.

He can do no wrong.

I agree. He is an outstanding, instinctive offensive player.

But he doesn't create assists or steals. He rebounds poorly for a guy who is 6-5 or 6-6.
He doesn't have a great handle and he doesn't play very good defense.

Like I said, he has a lot to work on. He couldn't be a back-up PG, as some have suggested.
He shouldn't be a starter, as some have suggested.

 

[phsyra]

Yea, he's not so good at defense and decision-making, but I love watching him slice to the hoop, but I hate watching him jog for loose balls, but he should keep getting better, but he s not a starter..him and JJ are both 6th men.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We should just continue playing JJ Starling 35 minutes and watch him go 4 for 12 playing equally terrible defense as Kiyan because he’s a senior!

No, it would be better if JJ only played about 25 minutes.
But Kiyan has to be good enough to earn the time.

 

[721Comstock]

No, it would be better if JJ only played about 25 minutes.
But Kiyan has to be good enough to earn the time.

Nah.

Nate Kingz could take some minutes at SG, which would then get either Betsey or Sadiq on the floor at the 3;
depending on whether we need more O (Betsey) or D (Sadiq).

It should NOT be a binary, JJ or Kiyan.

This is yet another glaring error by Red Man Walking.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Just put this in the postgame thread too:

JJ has a TS of 47%. Kiyan is 51.8%.

JJ has a PER of 10.8. Kiyan is 14.3.

JJ has a TO% of 12.1%. Kiyan’s is 12.5%.

JJ’s WS/40 is .091. Kiyan’s is .107.

JJ has started 95 career games. Kiyan has started 2.

By all metrics, JJ isn’t even an average player.

Put JJ on the bench.

what about defense?

i dont think anyone can argue kiyans defense, rebounding and interior play is strong

prettty sure reds rationale is all about defense here

kiyan is also shooting 25% from 3...people rag on jjs shooting but sheesh that is bad for a "shooter"

kiyan played great 1st half vs gt...and i agree he shoulda played more that game...but kiyan has been wildly inconsistent and a poor shooter

overall, i feel like red does a very ppor job of recognizing who is cooking and who isnt and adjusting playing time

red has this "line change" mentality due to defense and doesnt realize he KILLS momentum on offense OFTEN...kiyan shouldve never been subbed out 1st half if was on fire like that

DONT SUB OUT A SHOOTER/SCORER ON FIRE. this team cant afford to do that

if a player is hot 1st half...like betsey or kiyan...they often dont get back on the court for like an hour of real time with halftime etc...its odd....and then of course when they come back in...they are cold and off


i dont like the "formula" red has exactly copied from JB - its the same exact thng...play everyone 1st half and play a tight rotation 2nd...for one, its too easy to gameplan and predictable for opponents...for 2 ...team usually plays worse in 2nd for a reason

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nah.

Nate Kingz could take some minutes at SG, which would then get either Betsey or Sadiq on the floor at the 3;
depending on whether we need more O (Betsey) or D (Sadiq).

It should NOT be a binary, JJ or Kiyan.

This is yet another glaring error by Red Man Walking.

I don't disagree. Kingz could clearly play the 2. His perimeter defense is terrific.

I would like to see a lineup of George, Kingz, Betsey, Donnie and Will Kyle.

 

[Scott11]

Kiyan has been good for a freshman. But until he learns to move the ball and not stop and look to go one on one every time he gets the ball, he should not start. If he doesn't score, he kills the shot clock and rarely distributes. He is averaging 1.1 assists per game and that must get better. He should be in at the end of the game for free throw shooting, as I think his early struggles were somewhat flukey and he is not afraid of the moment. Like most young players, his defense is a work in progress.

 

[ar inj]

No, it would be better if JJ only played about 25 minutes.
But Kiyan has to be good enough to earn the time.

We get it. You and Red love JJ. You do not think Kiyan is good enough yet. Others think JJ is not good enough to get all the minutes he gets. Red will play JJ and they will probably both be gone before April.

 

[DoctahLexus]

We get it. You and Red love JJ. You do not think Kiyan is good enough yet. Others think JJ is not good enough to get all the minutes he gets. Red will play JJ and they will probably both be gone before April.

Actually he literally says in the post 2 above this one that he would like Kingz at the 2. People aren’t arguing because they “love JJ”. They just want us to get the most out of the options we have. Part of that is acknowledging that some of the other options, like Kiyan, also have flaws.

 

[CuseIn282xx]

LET HIM COOK

That's it, that's teh post.

Let him play defense.
Let him rebound.
Let him reliably make FT's.
Let him reliably handle the ball.

There's much more to the game than outside shooting.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let him play defense.
Let him rebound.
Let him reliably make FT's.
Let him reliably handle the ball.

There's much more to the game than outside shooting.

He can't do these things from the bench.

 

[CuseIn282xx]

He can't do these things from the bench.

Likely he's not doing it in practice either. We can't see that. Game time is not the best time to learn fundamentals and suddenly come up with them.

I know we all want Kiyan to live up to his Dad's standards. But I seem to recall JB calling Carmelo the most fundamentally sound player he's ever coached. I don't see that at all in Kiyan.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We get it. You and Red love JJ. You do not think Kiyan is good enough yet. Others think JJ is not good enough to get all the minutes he gets. Red will play JJ and they will probably both be gone before April.

I don't "love" JJ. Donnie is our best player. Kingz is terrific. George will get better.
I see JJ as a good 4th option. He was 2nd team All ACC, and he's deferring to a lot of other guys so we can have a winning team. Stop hating on his willing conversion into being a Glue Guy.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Likely he's not doing it in practice either. We can't see that. Game time is not the best time to learn fundamentals and suddenly come up with them.

I know we all want Kiyan to live up to his Dad's standards. But I seem to recall JB calling Carmelo the most fundamentally sound player he's ever coached. I don't see that at all in Kiyan.

Kiyan doesn't have to be Melo. He's a very good player. He scores with a bit of an old man's game, the way he finds gaps in the lane, and finds angles to get his shots off on the drive.
His 3 point shot has been weak, but we can see he has a solid stroke as a shooter.
He just needs to add a little "Nate Kingz" to his game.

 

[Lame-0]

He can't do these things from the bench.

But he doesn't do them on the court

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Likely he's not doing it in practice either. We can't see that. Game time is not the best time to learn fundamentals and suddenly come up with them.

I know we all want Kiyan to live up to his Dad's standards. But I seem to recall JB calling Carmelo the most fundamentally sound player he's ever coached. I don't see that at all in Kiyan.

I call bull.

Kiyan comes in looking like the most polished player on the offensive end we've seen from a freshman in who knows how long, and you're trying to make a case that he has to "learn fundamentals with game time?"

This is not a serious opinion.

 

[CuseIn282xx]

Kiyan doesn't have to be Melo. He's a very good player. He scores with a bit of an old man's game, the way he finds gaps in the lane, and finds angles to get his shots off on the drive.
His 3 point shot has been weak, but we can see he has a solid stroke as a shooter.
He just needs to add a little "Nate Kingz" to his game.

You're talking about his scoring from the field, and ignoring defense, rebounding, FT shooting, floor game, etc. The top players, and top teams, do ALL of those well. Right now, Kiyan does not.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You're talking about his scoring from the field, and ignoring defense, rebounding, FT shooting, floor game, etc. The top players, and top teams, do ALL of those well. Right now, Kiyan does not.

I agree.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Every individual stat someone gives as a reason Kiyan shouldn’t play more you can give an equal or worse stat for our SR starting shooting guard. That is the crux of this. The freshmen has more upside and is getting more criticism than the senior by some.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Every individual stat someone gives as a reason Kiyan shouldn’t play more you can give an equal or worse stat for our SR starting shooting guard. That is the crux of this. The freshmen has more upside and is getting more criticism than the senior by some.

He should pay more, and he will. But he has to play better.
It's not that hard to understand. He hasn't played well since the first month of the season.

[Edit - He did have a nice 3 game stretch around Christmas, too.]

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He should pay more, and he will. But he has to play better.
It's not that hard to understand. He hasn't played well since the first month of the season.

[Edit - He did have a nice 3 game stretch around Christmas, too.]

Not playing well is a relative standard. He's our third leading scorer and is averaging 10.7 points per game. NOBODY EXPECTED THAT.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Every individual stat someone gives as a reason Kiyan shouldn’t play more you can give an equal or worse stat for our SR starting shooting guard. That is the crux of this. The freshmen has more upside and is getting more criticism than the senior by some.

OK, so today against Pitt, when he entered in the first half, with about 12 minutes to play, Jeff Capel went after him on the first 3 possessions, and Pitt scored 3 times. Yes, after the 2nd burn, Kiyan got a foul in the lane and made his FTs.

When he came in in the 2nd half, he gave up a bucket on his first defensive possession. He also had one play (might have been in the 1st half) where a defensive rebound came down near the foul line and bounced, and he really didn't make the effort to win the ball. He didn't want the contact.

In the 2nd half, that's why Autry went to the zone, to protect Kiyan, and try to get the benefit of his offense without giving up so many buckets.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Every individual stat someone gives as a reason Kiyan shouldn’t play more you can give an equal or worse stat for our SR starting shooting guard. That is the crux of this. The freshmen has more upside and is getting more criticism than the senior by some.

How is this not obvious to everyone?

 

[Cappy3]

I call bull.

Kiyan comes in looking like the most polished player on the offensive end we've seen from a freshman in who knows how long, and you're trying to make a case that he has to "learn fundamentals with game time?"

This is not a serious opinion.

He may be “polished” offensively, but defensively he couldn’t cover a potted plant.