Redshirts

[CuseLegacy]

I have written about this before, but I think a program like SU's needs to adhere to a smart, strategic, business-like approach. We need all of the output/maturity/player development we can get. In general, players are bigger, stronger, smarter and "just better" at the age of 22/23 than as 18- or 19-year olds.

So, from my vantage, I ask, why not take advantage of that inequity? The present is vastly overrated, especially when striving for a 6-win season.

If our coaches and fanbase are patient, we can ALWAYS (or almost always) have the oldest team in the ACC. This is not a formula to follow once for a dream 2019 or 2020 season. If we redshirt the vast majority of our frosh every year, we can have an distinct advantage when it comes to maturity EVERY year.

Instant gratification is a dangerous drug. Let's be smart.

Hopefully in the future that can be done but when a team has significant lack of depth it takes several recruiting cycles before they have that luxury.

 

[GoSU96]

If you say so, the lack of preparing for the future & always caring only about next week leads to disgusting depth charts that look like this weeks where there are only 3 R-SRs on the entire 2 deep & 2 of those play the exact same spot.

There are 4 and 5 year players that are not playing because of coaches decisions. They are playing younger guys by choice.

I could be wrong, but as far as we know, AC, Avant, Anoicy, are all cleared to play, they chose to play Riley and Butler instead. They chose to play Moe Neal ahead of Fredricks. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to play Armstrong when Hodge was available for those snaps at OLB. They are choosing to play FR and RFR DB's instead of Morgan.

The future is now, this is part of the 1 1/2 build out that Babers talks about.

 

[GoSU96]

So then let's do it next year.

Sure, sounds like a great idea.

 

[upperdeck]

if they cant recruit this talk means nothing, if they can recruit then better kids are coming or at least comparable so we shouldnt worry about it. did we want this season to be even worse.. had they won Sat would this even be up for debate?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

if they cant recruit this talk means nothing, if they can recruit then better kids are coming or at least comparable so we shouldnt worry about it. did we want this season to be even worse.. had they won Sat would this even be up for debate?

The thing I don't get about the "well the recruit down the road will be better argument" is that you're talking about that future recruit not just being better than the current recruit, you're talking about the future recruit being better than the current recruit with additional time under their belt.

 

[Ish88888]

Your third bullet point is interesting and one I considered. Scoop Bradshaw for instance. He's played on specials for no real reason, and I haven't seen him in on O or D.

Sean Riley - I'm not sold on him and don't mind the clock ticking there. Dime a dozen imo.

I definitely look forward to burning shirt because they should play and not because they 'have' to play.

Agree, never understood burning shirts for specials. Alot of teams play their best talent (starters) on specials.

 

[Crusty]

Best player plays.

 

[cusefan88]

Agree, never understood burning shirts for specials. Alot of teams play their best talent (starters) on specials.

I distinctly remember marveling at every dang tackle number 8 for WF was making...then seeing him out there on ST too. That dude was a beast.

 

[blizz]

The present is vastly overrated.

Truly, more UnAmerican words have never been uttered.

 

[SmilinBob]

Coach P redshirted most everybody. playing as a true frosh in the 90's was the exception.

I remember Coach Mac saying...to paraphrase..."Nebraska redshirts all their guys and that is what we/SU has to start doing."

 

[SmilinBob]

If a player can contribute, I'm all for using them.

Where I get confused is a guy like Ruff. We spend time practicing this jumbo run formation and use him as one of the lead blockers. It has mixed results in the first game, but does lead to our one long TD run of the season.

I haven't seen Ruff or the formation since. Not even in the hurricane game where we knew going in that we'd have to primarily run the ball.

Yeah...that one has me wondering too. DE open as well for him.

 

[dan7800]

Use RS whenever you can. Think about it. Riley Dixon could still be on the team. We'd be undefeated at this point.

 

[kcsu]

There are 4 and 5 year players that are not playing because of coaches decisions. They are playing younger guys by choice.

I could be wrong, but as far as we know, AC, Avant, Anoicy, are all cleared to play, they chose to play Riley and Butler instead. They chose to play Moe Neal ahead of Fredricks. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to play Armstrong when Hodge was available for those snaps at OLB. They are choosing to play FR and RFR DB's instead of Morgan.

The future is now, this is part of the 1 1/2 build out that Babers talks about.

Yes true but not the point. The point is that if we had coaching stability and if we played the rs game. We could in theory field a mature team every year. The only underclassmen to play would be playing because they were the better player not out of necessity. What is required is a stable coaching staff one that is around for a minimum of 4 or more years.

 

[PAcuse]

Use RS whenever you can. Think about it. Riley Dixon could still be on the team. We'd be undefeated at this point.

He red shirted in 2011

 

[PhatOrange]

There are 4 and 5 year players that are not playing because of coaches decisions. They are playing younger guys by choice.

I could be wrong, but as far as we know, AC, Avant, Anoicy, are all cleared to play, they chose to play Riley and Butler instead. They chose to play Moe Neal ahead of Fredricks. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to play Armstrong when Hodge was available for those snaps at OLB. They are choosing to play FR and RFR DB's instead of Morgan.

The future is now, this is part of the 1 1/2 build out that Babers talks about.

Anoicy caught a nice ball against Colgate (heck it's one of the longest receptions of the season) and he's been MIA since. Avant has been playing on specials. Armstrong has been playing well and looks like he should be playing. Hodge has played well in spurts. Would be nice to have 4 years of Armstrong after this season but oh well.

I'm not criticizing Babers at all, I think they'd redshirt if they could, it's just been one of those years. Shafer killed the roster. I can't imagine what it would've been like this year with most of the Shafer class either unqualified or D1AA level and trying to keep the burners and rapists eligible.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

teams that aren't good and beat up should not worry about burning red shirts, bigger problems than a red shirt. Sure, there will be a few guys that we wish we could keep another year, woulda, coulda shoulda. Also need to get your guys on the field.

I don't worry at all about red shirts anymore, play whoever /whenever and when their eligibility runs out so be it, move onto the next. Like I said, there will be a few guys that we wish we had one more year with but so be it

Always a reason why guys do or don't play. Fredericks has looked nothing short of a hot mess in his limited PT, who is the next guy we will be clamoring for?

 

[GoSU96]

Yes true but not the point. The point is that if we had coaching stability and if we played the rs game. We could in theory field a mature team every year. The only underclassmen to play would be playing because they were the better player not out of necessity. What is required is a stable coaching staff one that is around for a minimum of 4 or more years.

What you're describing is not this team this year.

Not sure what you are getting at.

 

[PhatOrange]

teams that aren't good and beat up should not worry about burning red shirts, bigger problems than a red shirt. Sure, there will be a few guys that we wish we could keep another year, woulda, coulda shoulda. Also need to get your guys on the field.

I don't worry at all about red shirts anymore, play whoever /whenever and when their eligibility runs out so be it, move onto the next. Like I said, there will be a few guys that we wish we had one more year with but so be it

Always a reason why guys do or don't play. Fredericks has looked nothing short of a hot mess in his limited PT, who is the next guy we will be clamoring for?

Fredericks has made 2 mistakes. One in a rainstorm when the game was over. He runs the ball better than the other two and it's not even close.

 

[GoCuse14]

Fredericks has made 2 mistakes. One in a rainstorm when the game was over. He runs the ball better than the other two and it's not even close.

I mean...I'm not the coach...but it HAS to be close right? Unless our new philosophy is to put lesser talent on the field.

I think that I wont judge the guy that sees these kids in practice on a daily basis...and in the film room that can see and actually know what a player is doing right and what he is doing wrong.

 

[CuseOnly]

There are 4 and 5 year players that are not playing because of coaches decisions. They are playing younger guys by choice.

I could be wrong, but as far as we know, AC, Avant, Anoicy, are all cleared to play, they chose to play Riley and Butler instead. They chose to play Moe Neal ahead of Fredricks. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to play Armstrong when Hodge was available for those snaps at OLB. They are choosing to play FR and RFR DB's instead of Morgan.

The future is now, this is part of the 1 1/2 build out that Babers talks about.

Maybe, just maybe those choices were made because the younger player is just better and/or better in the system?

Just a thought.

 

[UelSU]

I think these freshmen will be playing a lot next year, and IMOP Dino doesn't want next year to be the first time that most of them have played in a real D1 game.

 

[chugg21]

I think these freshmen will be playing a lot next year, and IMOP Dino doesn't want next year to be the first time that most of them have played in a real D1 game.

I think that has a lot to do with it. He knew this year was going to be a stuffshow no matter what and the kids had as much experience in the system as the vets did, so might as well throw them all in the deep end and see who can swim.

 

[upperdeck]

Armstrong may well be great in 3 yrs. but if in 3 yrs we have not recruited a LB to take his spot when he is done we are in big trouble. he is playing now because of depth issues. I like to think in 3 yrs we will have 2 armstrong types ready to go and one Rs and one doesnt and one steps in the next yr and the other learns on the fly.. if we are lucky and the recruiting is even better in 3 yrs then the kid who plays helps us even more then he is this yr and we still are better off.

 

[Consigliere]

Don't buy it. Fifth year is never guaranteed so playing someone to "burn" a redshirt serves no purpose.

Premise was that if players don't fit the system there is an advantage to playing them in order to burn a redshirt and cycle them through the system in 4 years rather than 5. My point is that if players don't fit the system the school is under no obligation to offer the fifth year scholarship. It's quite common and acceptable for players to leave after four years with one year of eligibility left.

 

[Moontan]

It's quite common and acceptable for players to leave after four years with one year of eligibility left.

And with today's rules, if the graduate in 4 then they can take their talents elsewhere for their last year of eligibility. See Russell Wilson.