Remember the temple game near the end of the P era? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Remember the temple game near the end of the P era?

FRANKIEFAN said:
Nah a good running team off a bye had it's way with our 3rd string DL. Not saying we deserved to win but the offense kept us right there. Wasn't a home game.

Won't beat Cal if we play that bad but fans are eager to impose stupid expectations and think we should be in the playoffs.
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So teams can use the bye week to their advantage? Who would have thought.
 
We all know you were dead wrong back in 2004 if you wanted Pasqualoni out- that is not up for debate lol. Even non-football people could figure that out by now.

I've got to say, that as a die hard Cuse fan for ~40 years now it amazes me that, purely from a football perspective, that some folks still don't understand how detrimental it was to our program to fire Coach Pasqualoni. Losing decades of relationships and starting from scratch has (mostly) been hell to watch for the past 20 years.

I say this not towards anyone in particular... but to me, it is honestly ridiculous in 2024 to still be trying to say we should have fired Pasqualoni. To me, the people that still think we should have tanked the program back and fired P back in 2004 are toxic to our current situation. The main reason I am particularly in on Fran is because he completely disagrees with all the Pasqualoni hating and he mentioned George Deleone in his opening press conference... which all means to me that he actually knows how hard it is to win football games and recruit NFL-caliber players.

I know it is human nature for people to never admit they were wrong... but the P-hating fans were wrong, and their vocal negativity truly hurt the program. That said... it is OK to have been wrong about a coaching change 20 years ago. While Pasqualoni is still alive, I think Cuse fans should embrace reality and appreciate what we had... that has always been my feeling. Is Syracuse really the kind of place where our great coaches get run out of town and never return to be honored? Nobody has matched him or come close... it was a very stupid idea to run him and Ray Rice out of town. To me some people need to just 'let go' and laugh about how wrong they were back in 2004 in order for us to move forward and enjoy being Cuse fans.
 
CuseVegas said:
We all know you were dead wrong back in 2004 if you wanted Pasqualoni out- that is not up for debate lol. Even non-football people could figure that out by now.

I've got to say, that as a die hard Cuse fan for ~40 years now it amazes me that, purely from a football perspective, that some folks still don't understand how detrimental it was to our program to fire Coach Pasqualoni. Losing decades of relationships and starting from scratch has (mostly) been hell to watch for the past 20 years.

I say this not towards anyone in particular... but to me, it is honestly ridiculous in 2024 to still be trying to say we should have fired Pasqualoni. To me, the people that still think we should have tanked the program back and fired P back in 2004 are toxic to our current situation. The main reason I am particularly in on Fran is because he completely disagrees with all the Pasqualoni hating and he mentioned George Deleone in his opening press conference... which all means to me that he actually knows how hard it is to win football games and recruit NFL-caliber players.

I know it is human nature for people to never admit they were wrong... but the P-hating fans were wrong, and their vocal negativity truly hurt the program. That said... it is OK to have been wrong about a coaching change 20 years ago. While Pasqualoni is still alive, I think Cuse fans should embrace reality and appreciate what we had... that has always been my feeling. Is Syracuse really the kind of place where our great coaches get run out of town and never return to be honored? Nobody has matched him or come close... it was a very stupid idea to run him and Ray Rice out of town. To me some people need to just 'let go' and laugh about how wrong they were back in 2004 in order for us to move forward and enjoy being Cuse fans.
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Coach Mac is going up in the ring of honor this year at the UConn game. Coach P should be next year, and honored at halftime of a game. It’s time
 
CuseVegas said:
We all know you were dead wrong back in 2004 if you wanted Pasqualoni out- that is not up for debate lol. Even non-football people could figure that out by now.

I've got to say, that as a die hard Cuse fan for ~40 years now it amazes me that, purely from a football perspective, that some folks still don't understand how detrimental it was to our program to fire Coach Pasqualoni. Losing decades of relationships and starting from scratch has (mostly) been hell to watch for the past 20 years.

I say this not towards anyone in particular... but to me, it is honestly ridiculous in 2024 to still be trying to say we should have fired Pasqualoni. To me, the people that still think we should have tanked the program back and fired P back in 2004 are toxic to our current situation. The main reason I am particularly in on Fran is because he completely disagrees with all the Pasqualoni hating and he mentioned George Deleone in his opening press conference... which all means to me that he actually knows how hard it is to win football games and recruit NFL-caliber players.

I know it is human nature for people to never admit they were wrong... but the P-hating fans were wrong, and their vocal negativity truly hurt the program. That said... it is OK to have been wrong about a coaching change 20 years ago. While Pasqualoni is still alive, I think Cuse fans should embrace reality and appreciate what we had... that has always been my feeling. Is Syracuse really the kind of place where our great coaches get run out of town and never return to be honored? Nobody has matched him or come close... it was a very stupid idea to run him and Ray Rice out of town. To me some people need to just 'let go' and laugh about how wrong they were back in 2004 in order for us to move forward and enjoy being Cuse fans.
Expand...
P was a great man and a good coach. His time was also beyond up after 04. More than one thing can be true at the same time.
 
P hit a bad skid due to Vick's commitment, lack of resources, and loyalty to an outdated OC. Paterno also hit a bad skid. We fired P and suffered 20 years of garbage. P State didn't fire Paterno and found success just a few years after Joe figured out his crap. You guys hanging on to this idea it was still his time are hardheaded, stubborn, and probably don't learn from your own mistakes. P needed resources and time to correct the ship. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't but we fired a guy who had what 1 losing regular season in a decade and a half? Our floor used to be a bowl game. It's taken us 20 years just to get back to that point. Firing P was BAD. Only your ego is telling you otherwise at this point.

Ask yourself this? At what point in the past 20 years have we had a stretch of 3 years that were better than any part of the P era, even at the end? Marrone maybe? But those were 8 win seasons and P was certainly capable of those.
 
Last edited:
Pyle said:
P hit a bad skid due to Vick's commitment, lack of resources, and loyalty to an outdated OC. Paterno also hit a bad skid. We fired P and suffered 20 years of garbage. P State didn't fire Paterno and found success just a few years after Joe figured out his crap. You guys hanging on to this idea it was still his time are hardheaded, stubborn, and probably don't learn from your own mistakes. P needed resources and time to correct the ship. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't but we fired a guy who had what 1 losing regular season in a decade and a half? Our floor used to be a bowl game. It's taken us 20 years just to get back to that point. Firing P was BAD. Only your ego is telling you otherwise at this point.

Ask yourself this? At what point in the past 20 years have we had a stretch of 3 years that were better than any part of the P era, even at the end? Marrone maybe? But those were 8 win seasons and P was certainly capable of those.
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Coach P wasn't going to right the program - that was never, ever going to happen. Firing him after a bowl game when the hiring cycle was over was insane - it either needed to be done before that or after the next season - but the guy who had dutifully stayed quiet while we fell further and further behind in facilities was never going to rock the ship. And we needed a guy who would start to rock the ship.
 
Eric15 said:
And then the following Saturday we played Siena (in Albany) in hoops and BC in Boston in football at the same time. I just assumed BC would kill us so we went to the basketball game, and were in absolute shock at seeing the score afterwards.
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I had tickets to the Siena game, but stopped at Jilllians (I think, whatever the sports bar/dance club place was) before the game. Someone wanted to buy my tickets so I sold them and watched the games on TV, turned out to be a great decision. Lots of Syracuse fans coming in after the basketball game shocked at the football result is one of my main memories, since they were all asking me what the hell had happened.
 
Cusefan95 said:
Coach P wasn't going to right the program - that was never, ever going to happen. Firing him after a bowl game when the hiring cycle was over was insane - it either needed to be done before that or after the next season - but the guy who had dutifully stayed quiet while we fell further and further behind in facilities was never going to rock the ship. And we needed a guy who would start to rock the ship.
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do we know he stayed quiet? I mean that seems to be fanciful that P was ok with the funding drying up for the program. I think the facility argument is overrated tbh. I can't imagine it happened precisely at the time we had one losing season.

I think alot of factors were involved. We also had the embarassment of being left at the altar of the ACC in 2003 as well. Had we made the leap the money available goes up immediately and perhaps the recruits do as well.

I think us staying in the Big East with a mental midget HC GERG just made things exponentially worse. We shoudl have just ridden out P to the late 2000s and dealt with the 500 records and bowl appearances he would have provided.

Hindsight is 20/20. In our case, the reality was 0/40 because GERG stunk
 
elimunelson said:
do we know he stayed quiet? I mean that seems to be fanciful that P was ok with the funding drying up for the program. I think the facility argument is overrated tbh. I can't imagine it happened precisely at the time we had one losing season.

I think alot of factors were involved. We also had the embarassment of being left at the altar of the ACC in 2003 as well. Had we made the leap the money available goes up immediately and perhaps the recruits do as well.

I think us staying in the Big East with a mental midget HC GERG just made things exponentially worse. We shoudl have just ridden out P to the late 2000s and dealt with the 500 records and bowl appearances he would have provided.

Hindsight is 20/20. In our case, the reality was 0/40 because GERG stunk
Expand...

We know he stayed quiet because we didn't find out about it until after Coach P was fired. If all he did was complain about it behind closed doors while being ignored for over a decade, the difference between that and staying completely quiet is nonexistent.

And no one is saying funding dried up and the next year we had a losing season - you're creating an absurd strawman of what is being said here. We were underfunding the program for over a decade and it finally caught up to us. The only way to think it’s an overblown issue is if you didn't ever go to peer schools and see their facilities compared to our - increasingly outdated - ones. I vividly recall going to Va Tech and seeing what they had in the late 90s - as unpopular an opinion as this may be, Vick clearly made the right decision. Va Tech was committed to winning. Syracuse was not - at least not in the most important way, financially.

Riding things out with Coach P wasn't an option - the fan base had turned on him, that wasn't going to change with 5-7, 6-6 seasons going forward. Changing coaches was absolutely required. Likely the only thing sticking with Coach P for another 4- 5 years would have done is tarnish his legacy to the point the idea of bringing him back to be honored wouldn’t even be viable.
 
elimunelson said:
do we know he stayed quiet? I mean that seems to be fanciful that P was ok with the funding drying up for the program. I think the facility argument is overrated tbh. I can't imagine it happened precisely at the time we had one losing season.
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I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he at least said something to Jake. Paul should have gone public but he was too much the loyal soldier which is a factor in getting the promotion.
 
Cusefan95 said:
We know he stayed quiet because we didn't find out about it until after Coach P was fired. If all he did was complain about it behind closed doors while being ignored for over a decade, the difference between that and staying completely quiet is nonexistent.

And no one is saying funding dried up and the next year we had a losing season - you're creating an absurd strawman of what is being said here. We were underfunding the program for over a decade and it finally caught up to us. The only way to think it’s an overblown issue is if you didn't ever go to peer schools and see their facilities compared to our - increasingly outdated - ones. I vividly recall going to Va Tech and seeing what they had in the late 90s - as unpopular an opinion as this may be, Vick clearly made the right decision. Va Tech was committed to winning. Syracuse was not - at least not in the most important way, financially.

Riding things out with Coach P wasn't an option - the fan base had turned on him, that wasn't going to change with 5-7, 6-6 seasons going forward. Changing coaches was absolutely required. Likely the only thing sticking with Coach P for another 4- 5 years would have done is tarnish his legacy to the point the idea of bringing him back to be honored wouldn’t even be viable.
Expand...
Also the contract was through 2005. You can't have a lame duck college coach. The problem was the new AD starting in the middle of the academic calendar.
 
CuseVegas said:
We all know you were dead wrong back in 2004 if you wanted Pasqualoni out- that is not up for debate lol. Even non-football people could figure that out by now.

I've got to say, that as a die hard Cuse fan for ~40 years now it amazes me that, purely from a football perspective, that some folks still don't understand how detrimental it was to our program to fire Coach Pasqualoni. Losing decades of relationships and starting from scratch has (mostly) been hell to watch for the past 20 years.

I say this not towards anyone in particular... but to me, it is honestly ridiculous in 2024 to still be trying to say we should have fired Pasqualoni. To me, the people that still think we should have tanked the program back and fired P back in 2004 are toxic to our current situation. The main reason I am particularly in on Fran is because he completely disagrees with all the Pasqualoni hating and he mentioned George Deleone in his opening press conference... which all means to me that he actually knows how hard it is to win football games and recruit NFL-caliber players.

I know it is human nature for people to never admit they were wrong... but the P-hating fans were wrong, and their vocal negativity truly hurt the program. That said... it is OK to have been wrong about a coaching change 20 years ago. While Pasqualoni is still alive, I think Cuse fans should embrace reality and appreciate what we had... that has always been my feeling. Is Syracuse really the kind of place where our great coaches get run out of town and never return to be honored? Nobody has matched him or come close... it was a very stupid idea to run him and Ray Rice out of town. To me some people need to just 'let go' and laugh about how wrong they were back in 2004 in order for us to move forward and enjoy being Cuse fans.
Expand...
I agree a little about that. I personally think Coach P was a good coach but to safe for head coach position. We beat a lot of teams we shouldnt have butlost a lot when we were really good. Tennesse game comes to mind. K state in bowl. He being a defensive coach needed to stay tight to the hip and not take chances. It was time but when we picked the net coach we could have easily grabbed someone with Northeast ties who could develop and recruit. Its not rocket science. Instead we went the exact opposite of that and that started this show. Marrone and his staff just didnt like kissing kids ass. He would have turned us around totally i feel but then Gross totally pissed him off blatantly calling him out. There goes that chance. Shafer just didnt recruit a ton of guys although i liked his defensive fire. Not head coach material but defensive c. definetly. I had high hopes with Dino and tried believing without evidence until the 6 th year that got old. He isnt head coach material either. Now Fran Brown is gonna get us there but now we are fighting the money battle and its gonna keep going up. He is learning on job and so is half the staff but they will get it. We are a little tied up right now with injuries and not have a lockdown coner to play tight man and no middle defensive lineman that control los. I get E idea of bend dont break but I would rather lose full speed downhill and attack than get picked apart but thats my preferance. Now to fix this is gonna cost money. We need 2 guards and center who can blow people off ball. (expensive) We need another qb, same, need 1 and 3 tech who kills people on los, (really expensive) a Mike to take over for Wax, and a Barron type guy for other spot. Then we need 2 lock dwn corners and i believe we have one in Barnes when he is better and i dont know who returns at safety but hoping clark does and Grant i think his name is. Thats a lot of money so we shall see what we actually do.
 
florange44 said:
Temple beat us running the same QB read play the whole game. That was a large turning point (to the worse) for P. This loss is as bad as that one. No excuse for how bad our defense was today.
And no obvious adjustments.
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So let me get this straight.you are comparing the end of the Coach P era to Fran's first ever coaching season as a head coach... GOT IT.
 
sdhall01 said:
Can we all PLEASE remember that a first time head coach is going to take us to a bowl game? When’s the last time that happened? Has it ever happened?
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Coach P and Scott Shafer
 
dollarbill44 said:
Coach P had been a college head coach before at Western Connecticut. He inherited a really bad team.
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Oh, yeah. I had completely forgotten that part of his resume.
 
elimunelson said:
do we know he stayed quiet? I mean that seems to be fanciful that P was ok with the funding drying up for the program. I think the facility argument is overrated tbh. I can't imagine it happened precisely at the time we had one losing season.

I think alot of factors were involved. We also had the embarassment of being left at the altar of the ACC in 2003 as well. Had we made the leap the money available goes up immediately and perhaps the recruits do as well.

I think us staying in the Big East with a mental midget HC GERG just made things exponentially worse. We shoudl have just ridden out P to the late 2000s and dealt with the 500 records and bowl appearances he would have provided.

Hindsight is 20/20. In our case, the reality was 0/40 because GERG stunk
Expand...
It’s not that the funding was drying up. They didn’t lose funding. The problem was that the was no new INVESTMENT in the program. Other programs were spending lots of money on the program and facilities to catch up to us and then pass us.
 
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