Resetting expectations?

[ezbeezy214]

We don’t need to aim to be Final Four contenders every year, we should, but it will take time. However, we definitely should be a perennially ranked program that is above the bubble. If not every year, 9/10. When that happens NIL should be a great strength as we simply offer something no other school can offer in Ticket sales. Syracuse doesn’t care about basketball right now, that should NEVER be the case at the absolute minimum.

 

[tptcuse]

I would just like to see one of those little numbers to the left of our name when watching our games. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Cusefan0307]

The recruiting services have us with a top 20 roster this year. Bringing NIL into the equation feels like it’s an attempt at giving the coach another pass. This was all predictable. Scooch was all over this when he predicted it would be the excuse if we didn’t meet expectations.

 

[kingtidge]

The most predictable thing ever was some folks who said the talent was really good this summer changing their tune and now saying we’re NIL poor and the talent isn’t good enough.

Who's saying the talent isn't good enough?

I think most see the talent and it's proof-positive that it's being mismanged/wasted.

For example, you don't sign an All-ACC point guard and watch him devolve into a court liability out of poor, dumb luck. You actually have to run some semblence of an offense that he can orchestrate.

 

[5OutFred]

The most predictable thing ever was some folks who said the talent was really good this summer changing their tune and now saying we’re NIL poor and the talent isn’t good enough.

This has been a very, very disappointing narrative local media is now pushing. There was no doubt the talent level (i.e NIL in today's game) wasn't good enough against Houston or Tennessee.

Fans should not be subjected to forced "opinions" of those paid by the university (and a former head coach). It's why so many fans are turning to podcasts. It's exhausting and a shame for local media.

 

[NKR1978]

Thanks! So if we spent $10M that seems like we should be able to compete.

People are also forgetting that a lot of donors are probably closing their wallet because they have no faith in the staff.

 

[MikeSU02]

A point was brought up on the Cuse Nation radio show today that if NIL was a thing back in 2014 we probably wouldn’t have been able to afford to assemble that team. It would seem there’s truth to that based on our NIL funding to date.

Realistically, what level of success does everyone think is possible for this program in the NIL era? Can we aspire to be a final four contender, let alone have national championship aspirations sans a flukey run? Maybe we’re destined to be one of the many middling ACC teams that just hope to sneak into the tournament at best.. idk.

A new coach, while almost guaranteed to be better at coaching than Autry, will still by limited by the quality of talent that they can acquire (read: buy). While there are outliers, a vast majority of the best teams seem to have the largest NIL budgets.

The first statement isn't pertinent in the way it's considered. If NIL was a thing in 2014 JB and crew would not have been operating in the same way.

We currently have a roster that has five guys that were RSCI top 50, including top 10 in Donnie. That doesn't count Kingz, Kyle or George -- guys that are contributing on the roster. In his heyday, JB would have this team as a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney, if not higher, I truly believe that.

A FF can happen when you are stacked (1987) or have upside / talent and a solid team with a star (1996, 2003) and get a solid seeding or getting some luck / getting hot (2016). Note - I know we have one more FF.

But the best way still to get to a FF is:
Good coaches/coaching
Good players
Stay healthy
Get a good seed so your run is against weaker competition

This year the goal was literally to just get into the NCAAT. Eventually, we want to be able to make a legit run at the title every five years and be consistently in the tourney.

We will improve on coaching. The coach should bring inertia for NIL and fundraising as seen with Fran on the football side. It's part of the job now.

We still have a brand that matters. Syracuse is still a known entity. We have the Dome. We have a history. We just had a dude go into the basketball HoF.

If we can even match the type of financial support this year and match the type of roster, we should be comfortably in the NCAAT as a step 1.

Step 2 is getting to the second weekend.

Step 3 is making the run.

At this point, fans just want to get into the NCAAT. The rest will come and can be an expectation as shown by the level of talent sitting on the bench this year.

 

[Cusefan78]

In fairness the specific schools you names are basketball only schools so they can allocate a much higher percentage of their rev share to basketball.

My concern it that according to those who are in the know on here, the NIL put together for this roster was tough to raise and included a one-time infusion from a donor. While this roster should be good enough to make the tourney, no one is kidding themselves in thinking this roster is a true contender.

So what's truly possible on a frequent basis? What do we look like if this year included a supposed one-time cash infusion and it's still not good enough?

This is bs. If Syracuse is a top 25 team the dome is full. With that advantage in ticket sales and revenue from beer and food alone would be enough to properly fund the program. If Syracuse can’t afford to properly fund two programs then there is a problem with how the university is spending its money and fundraising. If they put out a quality product fans and companies will come back and support the program and the players. They need to send a message and fire red. The way this team is playing is like there is no one in control. Fire him now and let’s start the rebuild.

 

[MSOrange]

People are also forgetting that a lot of donors are probably closing their wallet because they have no faith in the staff.

I think you bring up an interesting point. I've previously been a very small donor, but I try to be part of the solution instead of the problem when I can. But at the same time, I don't like flushing my money down the toilet. That's one difference between NIL and donating for a facility/infrastructure. At least you know the facility is going to be built.

 

[littlereg]

The most predictable thing ever was some folks who said the talent was really good this summer changing their tune and now saying we’re NIL poor and the talent isn’t good enough.

Yup this has been one of my biggest issue with people who discuss and people around the program involving this topic. Many of us had the same similar feelings.

 

[Jake]

The recruiting services have us with a top 20 roster this year. Bringing NIL into the equation feels like it’s an attempt at giving the coach another pass. This was all predictable. Scooch was all over this when he predicted it would be the excuse if we didn’t meet expectations.

Who’s giving Red a pass for this year? I don’t see anyone? Seriously, he’s been given the resources and talent this year and it’s been a total disaster. Total. His Hail Mary was the hope that Donnie returning would save the season. Nope. That didn’t work either. This is the overwhelming opinion of the people here.

As far as resources go, “middle of the pack ACC “ isn’t where I want to be. That probably means we’re behind half the Big12, and nearly all of the B1G and SEC. We’re also not spending what UConn and St John’s are spending on Hoops NIL.

That’s a lot of teams with more resources in a playing field that values $ over the name on the front of the jersey.

I preferred the days when we were getting top 5 recruiting classes regularly.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Thanks! So if we spent $10M that seems like we should be able to compete.

I'd be surprised if we're spending $10M on this basketball roster. If I had to guess, between rev share and NIL, 6-8. But as others have said, the issue this year hasn't been what we spent. It's the coaching.

 

[Consigliere]

A point was brought up on the Cuse Nation radio show today that if NIL was a thing back in 2014 we probably wouldn’t have been able to afford to assemble that team. It would seem there’s truth to that based on our NIL funding to date.

Realistically, what level of success does everyone think is possible for this program in the NIL era? Can we aspire to be a final four contender, let alone have national championship aspirations sans a flukey run? Maybe we’re destined to be one of the many middling ACC teams that just hope to sneak into the tournament at best.. idk.

A new coach, while almost guaranteed to be better at coaching than Autry, will still by limited by the quality of talent that they can acquire (read: buy). While there are outliers, a vast majority of the best teams seem to have the largest NIL budgets.

The stars aligned perfectly for Fran, The establishment of SU Football NIL, the shovels in the ground for new facilities, the willingness of the AD to go to bat to secure greatly enhanced assistant coaching/support staff budgets and the pre-existing relationships the new staff had with several high profile players from Camden worked perfectly.
There is a lot of work to be done to replicate that scenario for basketball. I don't know how to even contribute to basketball NIL as an individual today. Not having a collective limits the audience to a handful of high level donors, a risky long term strategy, and corporate support. The support staff is not up to the level of the top teams in the ACC, NCAA raised the number of allowable on court assistants and the only addition SU made was to add a /assistant coach to the Director of Basketball Operations who was already on staff and had no coaching experience. And this isn't because SU is "cheap." In best years the department breaks even and with the AD continuing to invest heavily in football there needs to be a dramatic increase in revenue via media rights (conference level) and donor base.

 

[Scooch]

Who’s giving Red a pass for this year? I don’t see anyone? Seriously, he’s been given the resources and talent this year and it’s been a total disaster. Total. His Hail Mary was the hope that Donnie returning would save the season. Nope. That didn’t work either. This is the overwhelming opinion of the people here.

As far as resources go, “middle of the pack ACC “ isn’t where I want to be. That probably means we’re behind half the Big12, and nearly all of the B1G and SEC. We’re also not spending what UConn and St John’s are spending on Hoops NIL.

That’s a lot of teams with more resources in a playing field that values $ over the name on the front of the jersey.

I preferred the days when we were getting top 5 recruiting classes regularly.

Almost no one actually posting here is giving Red a pass. There are some folks who have largely stopped posting on the board who are still clinging to the why is everyone so mean/macro funding excuse. I can tell from who likes certain posts.

Regardless, you’re right about where we need to rank nation wide in regards to player compensation. And it’s why I keep saying that if we can’t scrounge up the money to do that then let’s consider reevaluating just what level Syracuse athletics should be competing at.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Who’s giving Red a pass for this year? I don’t see anyone? Seriously, he’s been given the resources and talent this year and it’s been a total disaster. Total. His Hail Mary was the hope that Donnie returning would save the season. Nope. That didn’t work either. This is the overwhelming opinion of the people here.

As far as resources go, “middle of the pack ACC “ isn’t where I want to be. That probably means we’re behind half the Big12, and nearly all of the B1G and SEC. We’re also not spending what UConn and St John’s are spending on Hoops NIL.

That’s a lot of teams with more resources in a playing field that values $ over the name on the front of the jersey.

I preferred the days when we were getting top 5 recruiting classes regularly.

My post was referring to local media. Not anyone here specifically.

 

[Scooch]

I'd be surprised if we're spending $10M on this basketball roster. If I had to guess, between rev share and NIL, 6-8. But as others have said, the issue this year hasn't been what we spent. It's the coaching.

Got it. Well I hope a huge factor in choosing the next HC is their fundraising chops.

 

[Chip]

Schools don’t just “get” $20.5 million to compensate athletes. They have to *fund* that much if they decide to use the full allowed allotment.

These school’s revenues are a fraction of what P4 schools generate.

My hunch is that prominent hoops-onlies are not paying 75% of that $20.5 million to men’s basketball players. I doubt they’re funding the full $20.5 million and definitely not self funding it through university revenue. They’re leaning hard on private donors, I suspect, to fill the gap. Which means less available money for NIL.

Agree. All the traditional basketball schools have, and will continue to, put a lot of money into football. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC, Indiana, Arizona, UCLA.

The Big East and WCC schools don't bring in nearly the same revenue as the P4 football schools do.

 

[Scooch]

Agree. All the traditional basketball schools have, and will continue to, put a lot of money into football. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC, Indiana, Arizona, UCLA.

The Big East and WCC schools don't bring in nearly the same revenue as the P4 football schools do.

Yep. And as much as it pains me to say this, but if we can’t compete with the Kentucky’s and Indiana’s of the world, and we have to make a choice, then I’m for funding hoops to be a national power and letting football wallow. The latter is more likely a pipe dream anyway. Let’s be really good at something instead of mediocre everywhere.

 

[Jake]

Agree. All the traditional basketball schools have, and will continue to, put a lot of money into football. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC, Indiana, Arizona, UCLA.

The Big East and WCC schools don't bring in nearly the same revenue as the P4 football schools do.

What worries me more, is that traditional Football schools are now putting more resources into basketball.

Watching Bama aTm and the likes outspend us is annoying as hell.

 

[Chip]

What worries me more, is that traditional Football schools are now putting more resources into basketball.

Watching Bama aTm and the likes outspend us is annoying as hell.

It's January 27. Nebraska is undefeated. It feels like we're living in an alternate universe.

 

[Scooch]

Some schools are finding ways to compete, and some are finding reasons why they can’t. We seem to be in the latter category.

And maybe the latter is true. I think we need to come to a reckoning about that soon.

 

[Nicknack]

What worries me more, is that traditional Football schools are now putting more resources into basketball.

Watching Bama aTm and the likes outspend us is annoying as hell.

Yep, that really irks me as well. With enough money, you too can have a top 25 basketball program! This whole thing is a mess.

 

[General20]

It depends. The money is out there for us. It's a matter of whether we can get a coach that can inspire and go out for the cash that is out there and is needed. I think and I'm not positive of this, Red was uncomfortable asking donors for money. you can't be that way in todays world. We need someone like Fran who isn't afraid to gets their hands dirty. In my old world, clients will give you referrals. But most won't ask for them the way they should. Which is always.

Recruiting is just as important now as it was pre-NIL but its recrcuiting donors that matters most now. I believe Red is very comfortable and very good at recrcuiting basketball players, but they will come if you can pay them. Now its all about recrcuiting donors.

 

[23Zone]

Coaching issues aside, we still need MUCH better point guard play more than anything else

 

[007]

Yep. And as much as it pains me to say this, but if we can’t compete with the Kentucky’s and Indiana’s of the world, and we have to make a choice, then I’m for funding hoops to be a national power and letting football wallow. The latter is more likely a pipe dream anyway. Let’s be really good at something instead of mediocre everywhere.

As you know, football drives the revenue boat. I don't see the university abandoning that ship anytime soon.