Rickie Collins

[Eric15]

I'm assuming you think shrader was good

Not arguing I just didn't think we have good QBs more often than not

When he was healthy, IMO he was a decidedly above average college QB. A mediocre passer with limited arm strength, but a masterful runner.

 

[Cuse On 3]

When he was healthy, IMO he was a decidedly above average college QB. A mediocre passer with limited arm strength, but a masterful runner.

Yep, not sure why so many people here dispute this opinion.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

Unfortunately, no, it can’t be fixed quickly. It’s not as simple as “you either have it or you don’t” but I think it’s more psychological if anything. Some QB’s like Angeli or McCord can handle all the pressures and nuances that the QB position brings.

You’d think wow, Rickie was sitting behind Nussmier & Daniel’s? He’s gotta be very experienced and should look composed but unfortunately it’s never that simple. He has all the physical tools, but QB is like 70 percent mental. All you gotta have is a decent arm, if you have elite quarterback IQ, you’ll probably do great.

Excellent explanation. Thank you.

 

[OttosShoes]

A question for those of you smarter than I regarding QB play(which is probably 99% of you).

I assumed that since Collins was in a QB room with Daniels, Nussmeir(for multiple years) and at a top school that develops QBs well, that he would be a bit further along.

I would have thought that locking in on WRs and processing would be basics you work on every day in practice. Clearly he struggled with that in his first start. Is that something that can be fixed quickly?

That’s a great question. People all learn at different rates and in different ways. It’s very common to have to teach a lesson 2-3 times before somebody really gets it, but it could be after 5 or 10 times they still don’t get it.

The trick to the latter isn’t to try again the same way nor to give up, it’s to try in different ways. You hope eventually the lesson is taught in a way that strikes a chord. Whatever development LSU did seems to have missed on telegraphing, so now we need HCFB et al to try and teach it another way. The good news is Fran is a developer and will surely do that. The bad news is that means Rickie is a project.

 

[sufandu]

A question for those of you smarter than I regarding QB play(which is probably 99% of you).

I assumed that since Collins was in a QB room with Daniels, Nussmeir(for multiple years) and at a top school that develops QBs well, that he would be a bit further along.

I would have thought that locking in on WRs and processing would be basics you work on every day in practice. Clearly he struggled with that in his first start. Is that something that can be fixed quickly?

Athletes aren't robots. They can be coached, but they must process the information and internalize it. Just like raw athletic ability, everyone has a different capacity for it.

 

[cusefan88]

I appreciate Rickie immediately watching the tape with Fran and dissecting every single dropback in detail. Will he get better? We find out Saturday.

Ultimately Cuse has their QB in Angeli but getting Collins turned around would really add some mystique to SU as a very QB friendly program.

 

[sufandu]

Yep, not sure why so many people here dispute this opinion.

Because some people feel good QB play is only throwing 50 times per game at a 70% completion rate. It is true that doing that works well, but it's also true there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Cuse On 3]

Because some people feel good QB play must is only throwing 50 times per game at a 70% completion rate. It is true that doing that works well, but it's also true there's more than one way to skin a cat.

True, when healthy he had a lot to offer on a very mediocre offense.

 

[RedtheGOB]

That’s a great question. People all learn at different rates and in different ways. It’s very common to have to teach a lesson 2-3 times before somebody really gets it, but it could be after 5 or 10 times they still don’t get it.

The trick to the latter isn’t to try again the same way nor to give up, it’s to try in different ways. You hope eventually the lesson is taught in a way that strikes a chord. Whatever development LSU did seems to have missed on telegraphing, so now we need HCFB et al to try and teach it another way. The good news is Fran is a developer and will surely do that. The bad news is that means Rickie is a project.

I think we can all at least agree that it's quite a mind over his last 6 months that he's been through. Has the job and is Captain, new QB is brought in after Spring, Fights for the job he already had, loses the job, sees Angeli succeed, Finishes the game at Clemson strong, gets the job for the foreseeable future, collapses at the dome to Duke.

On one hand I say well he's getting paid and he's 20, better man up and on the other hand aint no way that doesnt screw with one's head. Fran has told him he's the head of the snake now so he better get in that locker room and kick some butts or else it's gonna be his butt that gets kicked.

 

[690West]

From what I have heard he just hasn't progressed to the point he could play at this level. Has not looked good in practice and I am not surprised Carney is ahead of him.

Yup. I watched 30 minutes of him at the DART party and I turned to my son and did the “yikes” face. I know I know. Smallest sample size ever but I remember how much he didn’t look like the guy

 

[Millhouse]

Because some people feel good QB play is only throwing 50 times per game at a 70% completion rate. It is true that doing that works well, but it's also true there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Completion rate matters. Guilty!

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

Athletes aren't robots. They can be coached, but they must process the information and internalize it. Just like raw athletic ability, everyone has a different capacity for it.

That I obviously understand.

I would have assumed(maybe wrongly) that learning to go through progressions and not locking in on a WR would be one of the first things you learn and is emphasized. Especially after three years in collegiate Spring/Fall camps.

 

[RCDICK44]

I don't feel we should blame everything on Collins. The defense has to deserve just as much blame. We definately have a lot of work to do both ways.

 

[sufandu]

That I obviously understand.

I would have assumed(maybe wrongly) that learning to go through progressions and not locking in on a WR would be one of the first things you learn and is emphasized. Especially after three years in collegiate Spring/Fall camps.

Learning it in a meeting room and doing it at game speed are very different things. You can intellectually know what you need to do, but not do it well when the unexpected happens after the ball is snapped and 20 different things are happening all at once. It's one reason why assessing QBs through high school film can be such a crapshoot. When you're physically better than everyone else, you can hide the less obvious instinctual and mental pieces that are more critical as the competition gets stiff.

 

[sufandu]

Completion rate matters. Guilty!

Never said it didn't. It also isn't the only thing.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Score 3 pts. again = 6 pts. in 2 games = next man up.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

Learning it in a meeting room and doing it at game speed are very different things. You can intellectually know what you need to do, but not do it well when the unexpected happens after the ball is snapped and 20 different things are happening all at once. It's one reason why assessing QBs through high school film can be such a crapshoot. When you're physically better than everyone else, you can hide the less obvious instinctual and mental pieces that are more critical as the competition gets stiff.

All fair points. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Learning it in a meeting room and doing it at game speed are very different things. You can intellectually know what you need to do, but not do it well when the unexpected happens after the ball is snapped and 20 different things are happening all at once. It's one reason why assessing QBs through high school film can be such a crapshoot. When you're physically better than everyone else, you can hide the less obvious instinctual and mental pieces that are more critical as the competition gets stiff.

All good points, that is why I think he gets two more starts, the Pitt game after a buy but if it doesn't improve they need to move onto the next. Carney does have spring ball under his belt, I doubt he will be great as a true freshman but get him in there and some experience. He does look small but so are many good college Qb's. Rickie looked like an easy to tackle, robotic bundle of nerves out there, hopefully he can settle in. Tough to watch really. Let's not forget, Rickie is a 3rd year product, a paid for play athlete, I am not going to sit here and pretend that he deserves anything more than a decent opportunity. You stink, you get benched. The program has no problem calling looking for money to pay athletes well this is how it goes now. I am sure Fran will know when to pull the plug unless he thinks Carney is nowhere near ready

 

[Archbold44]

All good points, that is why I think he gets two more starts, the Pitt game after a buy but if it doesn't improve they need to move onto the next. Carney does have spring ball under his belt, I doubt he will be great as a true freshman but get him in there and some experience. He does look small but so are many good college Qb's. Rickie looked like an easy to tackle, robotic bundle of nerves out there, hopefully he can settle in. Tough to watch really. Let's not forget, Rickie is a 3rd year product, a paid for play athlete, I am not going to sit here and pretend that he deserves anything more than a decent opportunity. You stink, you get benched. The program has no problem calling looking for money to pay athletes well this is how it goes now. I am sure Fran will know when to pull the plug unless he thinks Carney is nowhere near ready

There are a lot of reasons to roll with Rickie as long as you possibly can. At this point, I wonder whether he was brought in to be QB#2. Maybe we had a real good feeling that Angeli would come here once it was confirmed that he would not be getting the QB#1 job. But Rickie was brought in as a project to see is we could take advantage of his upside while waiting that out. I don't know.

As a team, the best scenario is Rickie becoming serviceable and finding 3 more wins to get to a bowl. Carney preserves his redshirt, confidence, and his body for that matter. Our QBs are taking some hits this year. Angeli had been wounded a few times before the Clemson injury, including earlier in that game. Carney might need some more size/strength to avoid an injury. And he does not put any tape out there for people to try to steal him from us. If he does adequately, will he want to stay? A lot of college football gets played in Texas or nearby and a lot of money flowing. Someone could offer him bigger bucks just to be in a real competition for QB#1. Oklahoma State, Arkansas, etc.

Meanwhile, if we do not give Rickie every chance to succeed, why bother keeping for next year? If/when we pull him, he is likely "done" here in this NIL environment. If he wants to drop down to C-USA or Mac, so be it. But we need to know one way or another whether he is worth the ongoing investment of time and money. I think that is 3 games minimum, especially to see if he makes progress between SMU and Pitt during the bye week.

EDIT: Personally, I think he is going to be the type of QB that is up and down. Up and down plays. Up and down drives. Up and down games. 1 or 2 What turnovers a game. Just when you think he has turned the corner, he regresses. Just when you think it is time to give up, he shows you something. He is QB#2 and not QB#1 for a reason. It is up to the rest of the offense, the defense, and the special teams to keep the games from getting away from us during those bad plays and drives.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There are a lot of reasons to roll with Rickie as long as you possibly can. At this point, I wonder whether he was brought in to be QB#2. Maybe we had a real good feeling that Angeli would come here once it was confirmed that he would not be getting the QB#1 job. But Rickie was brought in as a project to see is we could take advantage of his upside while waiting that out. I don't know.

As a team, the best scenario is Rickie becoming serviceable and finding 3 more wins to get to a bowl. Carney preserves his redshirt, confidence, and his body for that matter. Our QBs are taking some hits this year. Angeli had been wounded a few times before the Clemson injury, including earlier in that game. Carney might need some more size/strength to avoid an injury. And he does not put any tape out there for people to try to steal him from us. If he does adequately, will he want to stay? A lot of college football gets played in Texas or nearby and a lot of money flowing. Someone could offer him bigger bucks just to be in a real competition for QB#1. Oklahoma State, Arkansas, etc.

Meanwhile, if we do not give Rickie every chance to succeed, why bother keeping for next year? If/when we pull him, he is likely "done" here in this NIL environment. If he wants to drop down to C-USA or Mac, so be it. But we need to know one way or another whether he is worth the ongoing investment of time and money. I think that is 3 games minimum, especially to see if he makes progress between SMU and Pitt during the bye week.

EDIT: Personally, I think he is going to be the type of QB that is up and down. Up and down plays. Up and down drives. Up and down games. 1 or 2 What turnovers a game. Just when you think he has turned the corner, he regresses. Just when you think it is time to give up, he shows you something. He is QB#2 and not QB#1 for a reason. It is up to the rest of the offense, the defense, and the special teams to keep the games from getting away from us during those bad plays and drives.

I can't see Rickie staying whether he is good or bad the rest of this season. Unless he does so well that he surpasses Angeli. But even then he may leave for more $.

Twenty years ago sure, but not in today's NIL and portal world. No one wants to be QB2 nor get paid QB2 $.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If I’m hcfb im scripting telegraph misdirection on every snap. Force Ricky to look the other way before locking in a receiver. Of course that means the first 2 seconds of the play are “dead time”.

 

[Oakland]

While I agree that his performance was not good against Duke, he did compete 65% of his passes so there is some hope.

 

[Cuse On 3]

While I agree that his performance was not good against Duke, he did compete 65% of his passes so there is some hope.

If he relaxes his feet in the pocket, drops back an let’s it rip. He’ll get better.

 

[Eric15]

What I would really like to see on Saturday is a slower, more methodical game plan. "Going fast for the sake of going fast" isn't an accomplishment. If we're 17 point underdogs, then we should want to shorten the game. Eat up as much clock as possible on every possession. Every time we're on offense (if and when we're not in catch up mode) we should snap the ball with less than 5 seconds on the play clock.

 

[kingtidge]

What I would really like to see on Saturday is a slower, more methodical game plan. "Going fast for the sake of going fast" isn't an accomplishment. If we're 17 point underdogs, then we should want to shorten the game. Eat up as much clock as possible on every possession. Every time we're on offense (if and when we're not in catch up mode) we should snap the ball with less than 5 seconds on the play clock.

I think "going fast" for us has more to to with getting the ball out before the pocket collapses.

You can only go slower and methodical if the O-Line is providing adequate protection to do so.