Ripleys believe it or not

[Brooky03]

GMac was so good at clutch shots, it would be shocking if he missed. Whereas it’s a surprise with just about 99.9999% of other players if they make it.

 

[Brooky03]

The real advantage GMAC had vertically was in his jump shot. He had tremendous lift. Joe has almost none. GMAC would shoot over guys that were taller than him.

Joe doesn’t take those shots, he just backs up farther.

Lift is a factor. I think as big a factor is GMac’s release point. His arms were very high. Joe has a little bit more conventional, comparatively lower, release point.

 

[Jake]

I'd add ball handling isnt close either. I rewatched the Big East tourney games vs UConn and GTown recently. The way he created open looks off basically pushing the ball, stopping and popping was amazing.

Yeah, you’re probably right. UConn and Pitt really roughed him up though. Knight and Price were tough defenders. I’m not sure Joe has faced that kind of pressure 5-6 games in a season.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Joe is physically stronger than Gerry was. Gerry was pretty tiny. The only thing Gerry ever lifted was his fishing pole.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah, you’re probably right. UConn and Pitt really roughed him up though. Knight and Price were tough defenders. I’m not sure Joe has faced that kind of pressure 5-6 games in a season.

Yeah our struggles vs both were blatant at the guard spots.

 

[Orangezoo]

Lift is a factor. I think as big a factor is GMac’s release point. His arms were very high. Joe has a little bit more conventional, comparatively lower, release point.

So I don't have film on it but my HS buddy and classmate was 6-6 and had a 7-1 wingspan while also a good athlete /solid vertical. We played in the same level of Hoops as Bishop Hannan and thus played GMacs team twice on the season. In the game on our court, which we won because he had foul trouble and an ankle issue in the 4th, Gerry was bringing it up and my buddy D'd him up as we played a 3/4 court press and he beat the two guards. Gerry had options but instead wanted the shot. All of 6-0 he came straight up and lifted up and over even with my buddy getting a decent jump to bury a deep 3. The whole damn gym had their jaws on the floor. The lift on his jumper was just ridiculous. I've been to a lot games at all levels and maybe have seen up close that kind of lift on a deep 3 a handful of times.

If you watch the state semifinals/finals he had a couple more similar shots that reminded me of that. Still can't get over that play.

 

[PoppyHart]

I think Joe’s a good rebounder because of his football days. He doesn’t shy away from contact and he can be aggressive.

Then wouldn't that help him finish better?

 

[Orangezoo]

Then wouldn't that help him finish better?

He has definitely improved that this year a good bit.

 

[Jake]

So I don't have film on it but my HS buddy and classmate was 6-6 and had a 7-1 wingspan while also a good athlete /solid vertical. We played in the same level of Hoops as Bishop Hannan and thus played GMacs team twice on the season. In the game on our court, which we won because he had foul trouble and an ankle issue in the 4th, Gerry was bringing it up and my buddy D'd him up as we played a 3/4 court press and he beat the two guards. Gerry had options but instead wanted the shot. All of 6-0 he came straight up and lifted up and over even with my buddy getting a decent jump to bury a deep 3. The whole damn gym had their jaws on the floor. The lift on his jumper was just ridiculous. I've been to a lot games at all levels and maybe have seen up close that kind of lift on a deep 3 a handful of times.

If you watch the state semifinals/finals he had a couple more similar shots that reminded me of that. Still can't get over that play.

You can google pictures of him taking a normal jumper where he has to be 24-28 inches off the ground with perfect form.

It’s ridiculous.

 

[Millhouse]

The real advantage GMAC had vertically was in his jump shot. He had tremendous lift. Joe has almost none. GMAC would shoot over guys that were taller than him.

Joe doesn’t take those shots, he just backs up farther.

I think Joe has a better approach and I bet gmac would do it the same way if he were 20 years younger. Players these days are releasing the ball on the way up, the jump is just to give you a little more power on longer shots and letting it go earlier helps get the shot off before you need to get it over somebody. I read a book recently where the guy talks about european players doing what he called an elevation shot - cross between a set shot and jump shot (adam filippi, he thanks boeheim in the book)

(reading and watching everything i can trying to help an eleven year old kid with my genes, ok dude if you really want to play this impossible game, you better be able to shoot )

if you have to lift a lot to shoot over someone, you're not open and you should pass it to someone else who doesn't need to lift so much. give me a more open shot a little further away

 

[Orangezoo]

Then wouldn't that help him finish better?

 

[Millhouse]

GMac chucked up a lot of shots out of necessity in his junior and senior seasons because that class of 03 took a long time to get started (if they ever did)

I would argue that is why his numbers went down after his soph season. And I would assume that Girards best year vs gmacs best year are not overly similar.

no way to prove this but his runners were terrible shots. too low percentage. i blame the drop in 3 pt shooting on fatigue. his actual skill shooting them didn't decline.

i think the bonaventure game in rochester was probably the last game i went to with my dad (he's still around but can't get to games anymore) - he called a hundred times yelling at me to get there early (he always made us go to games so early) because gmac made a million shots in a row but i was at the bar ignoring him. he still can't believe anyone can shoot the ball like that

 

[Millhouse]

Both had to play PG and would have been much more productive playing off the ball. If Edelin is around for all 4 years, GMACs shooting pct is probably 4-5 points higher.

Joe gets more rebounds because his supporting cast were terrible rebounders. But I also think he seeks them more as well.

Gerry’s shooting Pct are worse because his supporting cast were terrible shooters. Gerry never had a season where he was the third option from deep. He would have been lights out if he had as many open looks as Joe got last year.

But having watched them both….there is no comparison in my book. GMACs game sense and defense were so much higher. And as we all know….down three, final possession…GMAC is #1 years on just about everybody’s list of who you want taking it in SU modern history.

gmac 89% ft, shooter joe 85%
i still think that's the best way to judge shooters. takes away a million confounding variables. if you look at the nba top 50, it sure likes like a list of the best shooters

 

[Orangezoo]

gmac 89% ft, shooter joe 85%
i still think that's the best way to judge shooters. takes away a million confounding variables. if you look at the nba top 50, it sure likes like a list of the best shooters

I've always been surprised at Joe's FT form. Gerry took his time and has perfect rotation. Joe, whose jump shot is pure, reminds me more of a forward or big guy who has a quicker process at the line with less arc and spin. Clearly repetition makes him really good at the line and over the years it looks a little better but definitely still a difference.

 

[Millhouse]

old espn article talking about elevation shot, launch angle for lack of a better term and one motion vs two motion shooting

basically shoot over people by shooting faster with a higher arc which makes the basket appear bigger from the perspective of the ball

NBA: Breaking down Curry's perfect shot

In ESPN The Magazine's One Day One Game Issue, David Fleming writes that Golden State's Stephen Curry is short, skinny, deadly -- and he's reinventing shooting before our eyes.

www.espn.com

 

[Orangezoo]

old espn article talking about elevation shot, launch angle for lack of a better term and one motion vs two motion shooting

basically shoot over people by shooting faster with a higher arc which makes the basket appear bigger from the perspective of the ball

NBA: Breaking down Curry's perfect shot

In ESPN The Magazine's One Day One Game Issue, David Fleming writes that Golden State's Stephen Curry is short, skinny, deadly -- and he's reinventing shooting before our eyes.

www.espn.com

Good read. It's interesting how many players you see that have the quick release part down but not the arc.

 

[Newhouser]

I know Gmac got the famous "10 blanking games" quote but JG3 has won a number of games for us this year. I think Gerry was better but not by a ton. I think the biggest difference in the 2 is ball handling where Gerry was much better.

Glad Joe seems to be getting some appreciation as his career winds down. Hope he gets a chance in the next few games to prove if he is Gerry like in clutch post season moments.

 

[Fly Rodder]

No doubt about it. I would put Tyus Battle as the second most clutch player of the Boeheim era.

Don't agree. I think Tyus was one of my least favorite lead scorers in probably the last 20 years (certainly biased because they were also some of the worst offensive squads).

 

[Eric15]

Don't agree. I think Tyus was one of my least favorite lead scorers in probably the last 20 years (certainly biased because they were also some of the worst offensive squads).

I'm talking just clutch moments, specifically. Besides GMac, I can't think of another player that has the volume of huge shots in the last 20-30 seconds of ballgames than Battle.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm talking just clutch moments, specifically. Besides GMac, I can't think of another player that has the volume of huge shots in the last 20-30 seconds of ballgames than Battle.

Attempted? Or made?

 

[Eric15]

Attempted? Or made?

Definitely made.

-buzzer beater vs Clemson, 2017
-game winner top of the key with a couple of seconds left vs Georgetown, 2019
-game-clinching shot vs Michigan State in the tourney, 2018
-game-clinching three vs Maryland, 2018
-the three to seal the lead with a minute left in OT vs. Arizona State in the 2018 play-in game
-huge jumper with like 30 seconds left in our win at #1 Duke in 2019

 

[PoppyHart]

I'm talking just clutch moments, specifically. Besides GMac, I can't think of another player that has the volume of huge shots in the last 20-30 seconds of ballgames than Battle.

I think Sherm was about 95% on those floaters from the right elbow in late game situations. But yeah, the number of players with multiple game-winning or game tying baskets is small.

 

[SWC75]

Joe has never hit 6 three pointers in the first half of a national championship game. But we don't know he couldn't.