Rutgers crowd was far more intimidating than any Duke crowd I've seen in 5 years

RF2044

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No, the vast majority of them are good. You are seriously claiming the Big 10 is a mediocre conference, this year? 2020?
I think you're completely blinded by the preseason ratings which had Michigan State number one, Ohio State at one point number to poised to take over number one, Michigan, and other schools very highly rated. As the season has unfolded, and the preseason prognostications fade away, yes, you have a bunch of teams that are pretty good but not great. The narrative continues that they are the strongest conference this year, but I don't think the top end talent is there to support it. In actuality, what they have is a bunch of decent bottom of the top 25 teams, but not top-heavy at all. Also a bunch of teams that are ranked now but probably don't deserve to be, only there is a function of early lofty ratings.

And CLEARLY the lack of top of the food chain teams at the he top of the conference has enabled the mediocre teams to have better records than they normally would, if they were getting beaten by top teams like usual. Net result: symbiotic overratedness.
 
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Wrinkle

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I think you're completely blinded by the preseason ratings which had Michigan State number one, Ohio State at one point number to poised to take over number one, Michigan, and other schools very highly rated. As the season has unfolded, and the preseason prognostications fade away, yes, you have a bunch of teams that are pretty good but not great. The narrative continues that they are the strongest conference this year, but I don't think the top end talent is there to support it. In actuality, what they have is a bunch of decent bottom of the top 25 teams, but not top-heavy at all. Also a bunch of teams that are ranked now but probably don't deserve to be, only there is a function of early lofty ratings.

And CLEARLY the lack of top of the food chain teams at the he top of the conference has enabled the mediocre teams to have better records than they normally would, if they were getting beaten by top teams like usual. Net result: symbiotic overratedness.
Not at all. They are looking at 11 teams in the field, and that is supported by advanced stats. You say they have a bunch of bottom of the Top 25 teams -- that's more than other conferences can say! When 11/14 teams are projected into the field, and you've got 12/14 in kenpom top 50 (and 6 in the top 20!), it's a strong conference, end of story.
 

RF2044

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Not at all. They are looking at 11 teams in the field, and that is supported by advanced stats. You say they have a bunch of bottom of the Top 25 teams -- that's more than other conferences can say! When 11/14 teams are projected into the field, and you've got 12/14 in kenpom top 50 (and 6 in the top 20!), it's a strong conference, end of story.
They have a bunch of bottom of the top 25 teams, like Michigan State, who don't deserve to be ranked, but are hanging on because they were mistakenly rated as the #1 team at the beginning of the season. They are down, OSU is down, Wisconsin is down -- traditional powers. If those teams were good, then the Penn States, Rutgers, etc. would have a few more losses and wouldn't be flirting with mediocrity.

Calling the B1G the best conference is like anointing them the smartest kid in the dumb class, in a down year in college basketball overall with no dominant teams.
 
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Wrinkle

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They have a bunch of bottom of the top 25 teams, like Michigan State, who don't deserve to be ranked, but are hanging on because they were mistakenly rated as the #1 team at the beginning of the season. They are down, OSU is down, Wisconsin is down -- traditional powers. If those teams were good, then the Penn States, Rutgers, etc. would have a few more losses and wouldn't be flirting with mediocrity.

Calling the B1G the best conference is like anointing them the smartest kid in the dumb class, in a down year in college basketball overall with no dominant teams.
I don't really understand what you're saying. You think MSU and OSU are down. At first glance, their record could suggest that. But then you look at who they've lost to, and just about every loss is to a tournament team. Essentially every game in the Big 10 is against a tournament team. Even elite teams will lose a number of those games. You're saying preseason expectations have inflated everyone's view of the conference, but advanced statistics with no such bias support the strength of the conference.
 

RF2044

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I don't really understand what you're saying. You think MSU and OSU are down. At first glance, their record could suggest that. But then you look at who they've lost to, and just about every loss is to a tournament team. Essentially every game in the Big 10 is against a tournament team. Even elite teams will lose a number of those games. You're saying preseason expectations have inflated everyone's view of the conference, but advanced statistics with no such bias support the strength of the conference.
I don't just THINK it -- OSU IS down. For pete's sake -- they were poised to take over #1 earlier in the season, being ranked #2 early on, right before the bottom dropped out. If you don't think that is a precipitous decline from where they are now versus what they were expected to be in the early part of the season, then let's just agree to disagree. they lost 5 or 6 in a row at one point, plummeting out of the rankings entirely.

I don't just THINK MSU is down -- they were ranked preseason #1. Now, they are hanging onto #25 by the skin of their teeth, and lost earlier in the week. That isn't some subjective opinion, they're teetering on the precipice of being unranked, after starting the season ranked #1.

At one point, Michigan was a top 5 team, too -- now they are #24 and approaching double digit losses.

The ACC has the opposite issue -- three extremely good teams ranked in the top 10, and the middle quality isn't there this year. The B1G has a bunch of middle teams, but no elite teams.

OSU isn't losing to conference foes because the opposition is so strong -- they're losing because they are mediocre, were overrated, and not that good themselves.

In a normal season, with the usual suspects like Michigan State, Wisconsin, and others that have had sustained success are playing at their expected level, then the mid-tier teams in that conference all have 3, 4, 5, or more additional conference losses. That isn't the case this year, which is why middling teams that rarely are good like Rutgers, Penn State, etc. are playing "better" than they normally do. It's not that they've ascended, it's that the top tier has descended and is now playing down to their level.
 
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Wrinkle

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I don't just THINK it -- OSU IS down. For pete's sake -- they were poised to take over #1 earlier in the season, being ranked #2 early on, right before the bottom dropped out. If you don't think that is a precipitous decline from where they are now versus what they were expected to be in the early part of the season, then let's just agree to disagree. they lost 5 or 6 in a row at one point, plummeting out of the rankings entirely.

I don't just THINK MSU is down -- they were ranked preseason #1. Now, they are hanging onto #25 by the skin of their teeth, and lost earlier in the week. That isn't some subjective opinion, they're teetering on the precipice of being unranked, after starting the season ranked #1.

At one point, Michigan was a top 5 team, too -- now they are #24 and approaching double digit losses.

The ACC has the opposite issue -- three extremely good teams ranked in the top 10, and the middle quality isn't there this year. The B1G has a bunch of middle teams, but no elite teams.

OSU isn't losing to conference foes because the opposition is so strong -- they're losing because they are mediocre, were overrated, and not that good themselves.

In a normal season, with the usual suspects like Michigan State, Wisconsin, and others that have had sustained success are playing at their expected level, then the mid-tier teams in that conference all have 3, 4, 5, or more additional conference losses. That isn't the case this year, which is why middling teams that rarely are good like Rutgers, Penn State, etc. are playing "better" than they normally do. It's not that they've ascended, it's that the top tier has descended and is now playing down to their level.
I don't believe any of this to be true, other than the fact that teams like MSU/OSU/Mich have dropped in the AP/Coaches, rankings which are arbitrary and of little relevance.
 

bpo57

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I don't just THINK it -- OSU IS down. For pete's sake -- they were poised to take over #1 earlier in the season, being ranked #2 early on, right before the bottom dropped out. If you don't think that is a precipitous decline from where they are now versus what they were expected to be in the early part of the season, then let's just agree to disagree. they lost 5 or 6 in a row at one point, plummeting out of the rankings entirely.

I don't just THINK MSU is down -- they were ranked preseason #1. Now, they are hanging onto #25 by the skin of their teeth, and lost earlier in the week. That isn't some subjective opinion, they're teetering on the precipice of being unranked, after starting the season ranked #1.

At one point, Michigan was a top 5 team, too -- now they are #24 and approaching double digit losses.

The ACC has the opposite issue -- three extremely good teams ranked in the top 10, and the middle quality isn't there this year. The B1G has a bunch of middle teams, but no elite teams.

OSU isn't losing to conference foes because the opposition is so strong -- they're losing because they are mediocre, were overrated, and not that good themselves.

In a normal season, with the usual suspects like Michigan State, Wisconsin, and others that have had sustained success are playing at their expected level, then the mid-tier teams in that conference all have 3, 4, 5, or more additional conference losses. That isn't the case this year, which is why middling teams that rarely are good like Rutgers, Penn State, etc. are playing "better" than they normally do. It's not that they've ascended, it's that the top tier has descended and is now playing down to their level.
It's possible the big three in the ACC are elite teams but it could also be that they look better than they really are because the rest of the league is hot garbage. That's the beauty of March Madness when it gets settled on the floor.
 

RF2044

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I don't believe any of this to be true, other than the fact that teams like MSU/OSU/Mich have dropped in the AP/Coaches, rankings which are arbitrary and of little relevance.
Lol -- I'm not sure how anyone could say that with a straight contextual face, but agree to disagree. Wrinkle, I know you're new but you seem like a good poster, so let's just leave it at that.

Keep posting! I do appreciate the modern focus on advanced statistics, even though in this case I think you're tragically wrong, LOL.
 
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Wrinkle

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Lol -- I'm not sure how anyone could say that with a straight contextual face, but agree to disagree. Wrinkle, I know you're new but you seem like a good poster, so let's just leave it at that.

Keep posting! I do appreciate the modern focus on advanced statistics, even though in this case I think you're tragically wrong, LOL.
I have no problem with you, RF. The main tenet of your argument seems to be that because MSU and OSU were very highly ranked in the polls and have since lost some games and dropped, that the conference is mediocre. How you're making the leap from a lack of top 10 teams to claiming the conference is mediocre is beyond me. But no hard feelings, of course
 

tipphill

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Steve Pikiell is someone to keep on the radar. I always like how Calhoun's teams played. Wouldn't mind seeing that style of play at SU.
i said almost the same thing many moons ago. only i think i specifically said as a replacement for jb.
 

tipphill

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Why? Are you homeless or something?

It's a dump. It's small. It's old. And the seats remind me of a middle school cafeteria.



That's more like it. Last time I was at the RAC, Jonny Flynn made Rosario his b!***.
HA HA HA HA!!!!

Lotsa Orange in the house that night.
the rac is one of the best homer court in the ncaa When its full--and yes i was at the game when jf made the dunk--awesome.
 

OrangeDW

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the rac is one of the best homer court in the ncaa When its full--and yes i was at the game when jf made the dunk--awesome.
I feel like you could say that about all the small, old arenas...that are rarely full.
 

FRANKIEFAN

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I’m the first person to call the B1G overrrated which it annually is but not this year. Pedo and Buttgers are legit too 25 teams enough said.
 

SURU

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I feel like you could say that about all the small, old arenas...that are rarely full.
But this season its always full. Something like 9 sellouts in a row. Wisconsin is the only B1G opponent that wasn't a sellout
 

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