Sadiq White RETURNING

[Wrinkle]

Nope. You must be thinking of someone else.

"He is, as a depth piece. I don't even think Doty at this stage of his developmental curve is anything more than a platoon guy. I'm actually watching a replay of this sienna Duke game, he's okay, I think he can play in the ACC, but he certainly isn't a starter at this stage."

 

[RF2044]

"He is, as a depth piece. I don't even think Doty at this stage of his developmental curve is anything more than a platoon guy. I'm actually watching a replay of this sienna Duke game, he's okay, I think he can play in the ACC, but he certainly isn't a starter at this stage."

Well, first of all, the main point of our exchange was me refuting that Folefac should come in and be penciled in as a starter. Go back and review the preceding several posts for context.

You also left out this part of my post:

"Please note, I'm not knocking either player. I hope we bring them both here so that we have as many guys who can contribute as possible. I just don't think you can rely on guys like that to be key players in the ACC."

But you are right, I did say that about Doty. I wouldn't call it "scoffing." I have concerns about Siena / MAAC players being able to be high major contributors at the ACC level. But I think Doty has a shot.

 

[Wrinkle]

Well, first of all, the main point of our exchange was me refuting that Folefac should come in and be penciled in as a starter.

You also left out this part of my post:

"Please note, I'm not knocking either player. I hope we bring them both here so that we have as many guys who can contribute as possible. I just don't think you can rely on guys like that to be key players in the ACC."

That's still quite a leap from a week later now saying we should lock Doty into the starting lineup brother

 

[RF2044]

That's still quite a leap from a week later now saying we should lock Doty into the starting lineup brother

Not a leap at all. Again, context matters -- it was a discussion about Kiyan. If the choice is Kiyan or Doty, then I'd expect Doty to get the starting nod. And I expect the 5-star caliber Euro to also start.

We aren't going to start all three.

 

[Orangezoo]

One thing that’s important is the bias that’s been formed around our previous staff as well as the fact these players came from Siena.

For both the returning guys and the Siena additions they have a whole summer to develop and improve their games and the possible impact they can have. We have seen 3 years of guys not improving or regressing be it guys who stayed or came in the portal.

There is potential with Doty, Folefac , Kiyan and Sadiq to elevate their play based on their skill sets and work rates. Thus they are not static in what they bring come next fall. I’m not saying we sit here and issue guarantees but one reason Red failed is he and his staff could not move the needle for most nearly everyone he coached in terms of development.

 

[Wrinkle]

Not a leap at all. Again, context matters -- it was a discussion about Kiyan. If the choice is Kiyan or Doty, then I'd expect Doty to get the starting nod. And I expect the 5-star caliber Euro to also start.

We aren't going to start all three.

You said Doty 'certainly isn't a starter at this stage.'

 

[RF2044]

You said Doty 'certainly isn't a starter at this stage.'

Was that stage March 23rd? I was right... because he wasn't here yet.

We're at a new stage on April 9th.

j/k

But honestly, I think you're omitting important context by only focusing myopically on the statement but not acknowleding in either case the topics that were being discussed, but that's fine.

I am not as high on Kiyan as some other posters. I have limited confidence in his ability to commit to defense, hustle, dive on the floor, avoid poor shot selection, not be a ball stopper, and fit into a structured team offensive concept, etc. Don't get me wrong, he's all right -- but I think some get blinded by his last name.

So given a choice between Kiyan or 3M, I'd expect 3M to start.

And given a choice between Kiyan and Doty, I'd expect Doty to start.

Stating the above does not mean that I think Doty is Donovan Mitchell.

 

[jdubs30]

Doty, Kiyan, and MM are all roughly the same size. I bet those 3 get the lions share of the minutes at the 2 and 3.

Sadiq and Folefac at the 4.

We absolutely need a starting caliber PG and C.

But I think we have our wings already. I just don’t see us adding a starting caliber 1, 2 AND 5 going forward. We probably will sign a starting PG and a depth guard … but I would have to assume 2 of Doty/Kiyan/MM start at the 2 and 3.

PG
Doty
MM
Sadiq
Center

Kiyan
Folefac
Moesech
Center
PG/SG combo

The only slight chance I could see of still adding to the 2/3 spots is if Kingz ends up getting a waiver and maybe gives us a discount to stay

Anyone hoping to add 2 more starting guards I think will be disappointed

 

[Scooch]

Celtics have at least 4 guys who regularly bring the ball up and initiate the offense. I’m all for it. Put the pressure on the defense to react.

Precisely. The only true position the Cs employ these days is either Qeuita or Garza at the 5. Everyone else on the floor is position fluid.

 

[Scooch]

One thing that’s important is the bias that’s been formed around our previous staff as well as the fact these players came from Siena.

For both the returning guys and the Siena additions they have a whole summer to develop and improve their games and the possible impact they can have. We have seen 3 years of guys not improving or regressing be it guys who stayed or came in the portal.

There is potential with Doty, Folefac , Kiyan and Sadiq to elevate their play based on their skill sets and work rates. Thus they are not static in what they bring come next fall. I’m not saying we sit here and issue guarantees but one reason Red failed is he and his staff could not move the needle for most nearly everyone he coached in terms of development.

The "bias" cuts both ways. There are folks who believe the Siena guys can be ACC guys because they played for Gerry. IMHO we need to build some redundancies into the roster if some of the Siena guys can't translate. The last time we brought in a bunch of low majors it didn't go very well, and that wasn't solely because of Red's coaching.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Precisely. The only true position the Cs employ these days is either Qeuita or Garza at the 5. Everyone else on the floor is position fluid.

And Garza and Vuc can both slip out and knock down a three. Which requires the other teams big man to leave the middle creating even more room for the Js to attack the rim.

Can we get a big like that? Probably not, but it would be nice, and more and more of these guys are coming up in the Steph Curry era.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The "bias" cuts both ways. There are folks who believe the Siena guys can be ACC guys because they played for Gerry. IMHO we need to build some redundancies into the roster if some of the Siena guys can't translate. The last time we brought in a bunch of low majors it didn't go very well, and that wasn't solely because of Red's coaching.

Amen

 

[Orangezoo]

The "bias" cuts both ways. There are folks who believe the Siena guys can be ACC guys because they played for Gerry. IMHO we need to build some redundancies into the roster if some of the Siena guys can't translate. The last time we brought in a bunch of low majors it didn't go very well, and that wasn't solely because of Red's coaching.

Absolutely you have to be objective when looking at the bias. Every off season there is a range of possibilities as it pertains to player growth and improvement. It’s why the right staff from the main assistants to the support staff is so critical. They have to prove they can do it and turn this into a machine not just a bunch of people with good resumes ( very critical still).

I honesty don’t know how good or bad the assistant staff was under Red but the results certainly were not good. Gerry has started with a good roster of staff that presents optimism for now.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The "bias" cuts both ways. There are folks who believe the Siena guys can be ACC guys because they played for Gerry. IMHO we need to build some redundancies into the roster if some of the Siena guys can't translate. The last time we brought in a bunch of low majors it didn't go very well, and that wasn't solely because of Red's coaching.

My bias is that despite almost beating Duke, they didn’t. And they also lost to UVM pretty handily. I’m hopeful but trying to stay realistic.