Scrimmage Jan 26 / Hofstra - Vermont

[MaxFischer]

I have said it before: If Rehfuss and Solomon can play for essentially 60 mins every game dodging against d poles and riding hard on clears, why can't our equally or maybe even more dangerous 1st line middies do at least somewhat close to the same when they almost always get subbed out after the ride?

I agree completely that our firsts need to play more. The interesting wrinkle this year will be the shot clock. How will this translate into up and down play and less substituting? There are opportunities here to take advantage of match ups with offensive mids playing defense even more so than before. At the same time, will our firsts end up playing more defense? Will there be more emphasis placed on trying to get a good shot sooner (i.e. pushing the ball not substituting) rather than letting the defense set up? Will we see more zone across the board? Will be interesting to see.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I agree completely that our firsts need to play more. The interesting wrinkle this year will be the shot clock. How will this translate into up and down play and less substituting? There are opportunities here to take advantage of match ups with offensive mids playing defense even more so than before. At the same time, will our firsts end up playing more defense? Will there be more emphasis placed on trying to get a good shot sooner (i.e. pushing the ball not substituting) rather than letting the defense set up? Will we see more zone across the board? Will be interesting to see.

You are absolutely right that it is possible for O middies to be asked to produce a lot more on both ends of the field with the shot clock. It could also be a situation where our O middies sub out at a very rapid pace instead of hanging around guarding a defensive middie for a few seconds while teams regroup. Basically teams cannot afford to take the time they did before with subbing out D middies for O middies. So the two options are running more middies in a 2 way situation/try and push transition whenever possible or sub out your D mids for O mids as fast as possible to not waste any clock. My guess is this year will be filled with lots of teams just going for quick substitutions but that could change over time. Also a quick substitution could lead to our offensive guys getting stuck on D if they are not able to get off when the d middies on the other team do.

 

[CuSeLaX]

Discussion on Solomon reminds me of nbadraft.net where they assign numerical scores to every facet of a players game before a final score. You'll see that the finest basketball prospects have imperfect scores in many categories.

Bit unfair to single out one play because he has many highlights against very good defenders where he is dodging as well. Remember the triple pump where he beats several?

Solomon may not receive the highest grade as a dodger , may not be the best passer out of a double but he has his strengths and is a productive player.

He's a hybrid who can fit several designs though I lean toward Shol's take on where he best operates.

Think the larger question posed by Powell is the synergy of combos and the ability this year to employ different looks depending on opponent. In that respect, the onus is on Desko to best mix and employ.

I agree with you Solomon definitely has qualities of a really good player. And if Rehfuss becomes that elite dodger it would be perfect to have Solomon and Voigt to distribute to. However the best teams have two dodging attackman. Take Yale last year. Their attack had two dodgers and one crease man. Solomon is a less talented Donahue he is best when someone else dodges, but he can dodge certain match ups . All im saying is we need more dodging at attack. That was an obvious issue last year, so not changing anything to me is a mistake. We once had an attack of Rice, Donahue, Staats. All three outscored out attackman by double digit points. I just want to see some fresh blood get starts for a unit that has been underproducing for years now.

 

[ivorytower]

Fair enough. All about finding the right mix of skills. Change make sense if warranted. Not sure anything is clear yet other than team has at least five good attackman that can be used. Bomberry and Voigt were redundant, dont think that is case with Voigt n Solomon but the most effective attack combos will eventually reveal itself

 

[sholokov2]

I'd enjoy a discussion of the effects of the new time limits on SU. Generally, riding and clearing seem more important than ever. Goalie quickness, accuracy, creativity may be more important under the new rule. Fast break schemes with offensive minded ssdms, etc. and so many other challenges make this year less predictable and more exciting. Tiffany and UVA are salivating. He teaches this stuff and Conrad will be back. Jesus weeps.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I'd enjoy a discussion of the effects of the new time limits on SU. Generally, riding and clearing seem more important than ever. Goalie quickness, accuracy, creativity may be more important under the new rule. Fast break schemes with offensive minded ssdms, etc. and so many other challenges make this year less predictable and more exciting. Tiffany and UVA are salivating. He teaches this stuff and Conrad will be back. Jesus weeps.

Agree about UVA, its like a dream scenario for them although they do continue to turn it over at an alarming rate. Concern for them I would think is Conrad being at 100% less then a year after the surgery in his final season at UVA. I know the reports on him are positive but players usually aren't the same the first year back after an ACL tear.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

How is this a dream for UVa? They were doing what no one was doing. Now everyone will be doing it.

It’s like the Oakland A’s when they started going after guys with high on-base percentages. They were the only team emphasizing that undervalued aspect of the game. And they had success. Then all the other teams started doing it and any advantage Oakland had was essentially neutralized.

Same thing with the West Coast Offense.

Hell, same thing with Princeton’s defense. Sliding from the crease, trying to turn dodgers, trap them in doubles — it’s a ubiquitous part of the game. It was no longer unique to Princeton once Tierney gave up the goods at a convention in 98 or 99.

The shot clock does nothing to help UVA. They’d have been better off without the clock, kept going as one of the few teams playing fast. Now everyone is going to catch up. And if they keep turning the ball over like they do, they’re really going to be hurting.

 

[laxsummit]

We were able to play fast when we faced UVA last year .Cuse is deeper than most so a faster pace game is advantageous to us. Lax players and teams will adapt to shot clock . As far as Tiffany being a guru, UVA has high end offensive talent and doubt it mattered what system their kids play in. They would have been just as good under different systems.

 

[JeremyCuse]

How is this a dream for UVa? They were doing what no one was doing. Now everyone will be doing it.

It’s like the Oakland A’s when they started going after guys with high on-base percentages. They were the only team emphasizing that undervalued aspect of the game. And they had success. Then all the other teams started doing it and any advantage Oakland had was essentially neutralized.

Same thing with the West Coast Offense.

Hell, same thing with Princeton’s defense. Sliding from the crease, trying to turn dodgers, trap them in doubles — it’s a ubiquitous part of the game. It was no longer unique to Princeton once Tierney gave up the goods at a convention in 98 or 99.

The shot clock does nothing to help UVA. They’d have been better off without the clock, kept going as one of the few teams playing fast. Now everyone is going to catch up. And if they keep turning the ball over like they do, they’re really going to be hurting.

Well its a dream because UVA is already used to playing this style and should have a huge advantage over most teams save for maybe Albany, Syracuse, and a handful of others who play at a more up tempo style. This is an enormous adjustment most teams. It was reported that Hopkins scrimmaged High Point this weekend and both teams were obsessed with the shot clock and it threw everything off. That advantage might be gone in 2-3 years when everyone else catches us up but right now they really dont' have to adjust all that much because they already play this well and there team/players are built for this style of play. For teams like Army, Navy, Bryant, Maryland(to a lesser extent), OSU, Hobart, and a host of other teams this is a huge change as most of those teams are used to playing either a slow downed pace (Maryland) or at a freeking crawl (Bryant, Army, etc). This is the equivalent of the NCAA requiring every team to suddenly play 2-3 zone exclusively in bball one year, SU would have a huge advantage to start.

 

[ctlax]

Well its a dream because UVA is already used to playing this style and should have a huge advantage over most teams save for maybe Albany, Syracuse, and a handful of others who play at a more up tempo style. This is an enormous adjustment most teams. It was reported that Hopkins scrimmaged High Point this weekend and both teams were obsessed with the shot clock and it threw everything off. That advantage might be gone in 2-3 years when everyone else catches us up but right now they really dont' have to adjust all that much because they already play this well and there team/players are built for this style of play. For teams like Army, Navy, Bryant, Maryland(to a lesser extent), OSU, Hobart, and a host of other teams this is a huge change as most of those teams are used to playing either a slow downed pace (Maryland) or at a freeking crawl (Bryant, Army, etc). This is the equivalent of the NCAA requiring every team to suddenly play 2-3 zone exclusively in bball one year, SU would have a huge advantage to start.

Yes, reminds me of when Dean Smith ran the four corners offense to kill the clock. Thank God for the shot clock!

 

[ctlax]

Yes, reminds me of when Dean Smith ran the four corners offense to kill the clock. Thank God for the shot clock!

Or the 2011 Maryland playoff game 5-6!

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Well its a dream because UVA is already used to playing this style and should have a huge advantage over most teams save for maybe Albany, Syracuse, and a handful of others who play at a more up tempo style. This is an enormous adjustment most teams. It was reported that Hopkins scrimmaged High Point this weekend and both teams were obsessed with the shot clock and it threw everything off. That advantage might be gone in 2-3 years when everyone else catches us up but right now they really dont' have to adjust all that much because they already play this well and there team/players are built for this style of play. For teams like Army, Navy, Bryant, Maryland(to a lesser extent), OSU, Hobart, and a host of other teams this is a huge change as most of those teams are used to playing either a slow downed pace (Maryland) or at a freeking crawl (Bryant, Army, etc). This is the equivalent of the NCAA requiring every team to suddenly play 2-3 zone exclusively in bball one year, SU would have a huge advantage to start.

I agree UVA will have a bit of an advantage this year, but like you say, it’ll be gone in 2-3 years. That was my overarching point. So it would seem we are in accord.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I agree UVA will have a bit of an advantage this year, but like you say, it’ll be gone in 2-3 years. That was my overarching point. So it would seem we are in accord.

To be honest I am not sure it will be gone in 2-3 years, there in year 3 under Lars and clearly have had some growing pains transitioning to this style of offense and are still trying to get it going as well as he had it at Brown. There going to be 3 years ahead of most other teams trying to transition to this type of offense not to mention bringing in the type of players that can mesh with this offense. I just think its going to be a real big advantage for them for at least the next 3-4 years.

 

[DoctahLexus]

To be honest I am not sure it will be gone in 2-3 years, there in year 3 under Lars and clearly have had some growing pains transitioning to this style of offense and are still trying to get it going as well as he had it at Brown. There going to be 3 years ahead of most other teams trying to transition to this type of offense not to mention bringing in the type of players that can mesh with this offense. I just think its going to be a real big advantage for them for at least the next 3-4 years.

Agreed. Perhaps even more than 3 or 4. Coaches are going to stick to their guns with the new shot clock and try to maintain the style they employed for decades as much as possible. If the new shot clock truly demands an emphasis on transition (which I don't think is guaranteed) then Tiffany, Marr, and Co. will have a nice leg up on slow down teams. That being said I think the labeling of Virginia as the main transition heavy team so far under Tiffany is a little over done. I think the label comes solely from having Conrad, along with Tiffany's recent heavy use of transition with LSMs with the excellent Brown 2016 team. UVA has an LSM that likes to push transition but none of UVAs other main offensive players saw time as two way middies. In both our games with UVA last year we had waaay more transition goals for what it's worth. As of now the true team that benefits is Albany. They are the one team that has consistently used actual two way middies for better or worse. Of course they lose their best 2 way guy McClancy along with an effective offensive LSM Troy Reh. Both killed us the past couple years. But I don't see Marr stopping that strategy any time soon.

 

[sholokov2]

Well its a dream because UVA is already used to playing this style and should have a huge advantage over most teams save for maybe Albany, Syracuse, and a handful of others who play at a more up tempo style. This is an enormous adjustment most teams. It was reported that Hopkins scrimmaged High Point this weekend and both teams were obsessed with the shot clock and it threw everything off. That advantage might be gone in 2-3 years when everyone else catches us up but right now they really dont' have to adjust all that much because they already play this well and there team/players are built for this style of play. For teams like Army, Navy, Bryant, Maryland(to a lesser extent), OSU, Hobart, and a host of other teams this is a huge change as most of those teams are used to playing either a slow downed pace (Maryland) or at a freeking crawl (Bryant, Army, etc). This is the equivalent of the NCAA requiring every team to suddenly play 2-3 zone exclusively in bball one year, SU would have a huge advantage to start.

agree well said

 

[WoodyUK]

 

[ivorytower]

Production and commentators were fine but overview too light with not enough substance imo. Guess they can do only so much within 29 minutes less commercials but no in-depth analysis of team and units. Briefest of mentions on expected starters but nothing about depth chart , second mid line, important subs, defensive mids, seniors who will play . Not even a passing mention of preseason all acc Dearth or Lipka who is presently first line. Appreciate any coverage but was expecting more given length. Maybe they'll do a deeper followup.

 

[CreaseRat]

Are you expecting Dordevic back by Colgate? I get the feeling this is going to turn into one of those "he should be back next week" and 6 weeks later were still waiting.

sorry for the late response. I haven't heard a timeline on the injury but there are concerns its going to be longer than anticipated