Seen enough yet?

[Scooch]

…or he is trying to please too many players and is unwilling or simply not capable of being tough.

I suspect we’re gonna know if this is the case over the next month.

For example, there’s no reason to start Carlos anymore. Hell, one can make the case there’s no reason to give him minutes at all anymore.

After 6 games we can see the contours of an 8–ish man rotation. I just don’t know if Autry wants to staple some guys to the bench for long stretches.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

You might end up being correct. I am very concerned. But smart people improve at their jobs all the time. I have had this discussion for many years with some guys that no kidding, ended up being Hall of Fame coaches. People wanted them fired early.

Gee, I think our former coach fell into that category. I recall a really stupid “T” he got vs Iowa in the NCAA game that put the game out of reach.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Obviously not. Or at least I hope not because the coaching has been worse this year.

Maybe GMac was important.

 

[FireballPhil]

I have hired probably close to 100 people, maybe more I lost track long ago.I can tell you that we cannot make a proclamation of hire or not based solely on the games so far. We have no idea how he interviewed as opposed to any other they may have interviewed. I have to trust that the people who did the hiring made a decision that was in the best interest of the university. I do personally think Red has some growing to do, as I suspect any new head coach has to do, but the team is slowly getting better. Sure it isn't quick enough for most of our liking, but in honesty it is more on the players not executing than it is Red's decisions. We should have won this game by 20 but lack of execution killed it.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He coached 47 years. The first 40 or so were fine.

Well, Red isn’t building off of that, is he. He literally had to get rid of 5 guys I’m from JB’s self proclaimed best class ever.

 

[JustPherU]

I pulled hard for Red. He can flat out recruit and I believe he has the teams respect.
My hope is that he is still tinkering and trying to find his combinations.
My believe is that he is unfortunately either a poor bench coach or he is trying to please too many players and is unwilling or simply not capable of being tough. Again I hope it's the latter as if he is making these substitutions based on what he believes is needed to win we are in trouble and Red probably won't make it. Hopefully the other coaches step in.

Got a feeling that his recruiting ability will go down big time once recruits see the guy can’t coach.Who is going to want to play for a guy and a team that never makes the tournament?

 

[kcsu]

I’ve seen enough. And quite frankly, you’re incorrect.

A manager of a Fortune 500 company that sees a blue chip subsidiary for 40 years start to slip for 5-7 years, would not make a continuity hire. And if that manager did, he would not wait to assess as the subsidiary falls further and further from relevancy.

That manager would be fired.

I ran a large company for an investment banking firm, 19k employees and I agree with you for the most part. In the corporate world.
JW made the correct decision/hire. JB and before him RD had 50 years of success. That success was 100% in house, SU family success that you wouldn't dare go outside in replacing JB.
Fans, Alumni, Donors, former players would have been torched. There was no other decision. Red was next in line and he was given and should have been given the job.
Now if after 3 seasons Red doesn't cut it JW has the obligation and purchase to make a change, do a legitimate national search and pick anyone he chooses. John made the only hire he could have made and he will make the change on Red if needed but it won't be until the end of the third, possibly fourth season.

 

[phil77]

Red has a lot to learn on the coaching front that is for sure. He shouldn’t be the head coach for Syracuse at this point in time. He needs to earn his strips and figure out what style of play he wants to play at a lower level. He looks totally lost on key thing like offensive set, defensive principles, and rotations. He shouldn’t be learning on the job. We as a program don’t have time for that after JB held on too long

 

[dasher]

Gee, I think our former coach fell into that category. I recall a really stupid “T” he got vs Iowa in the NCAA game that put the game out of reach.

The T was by a rabbit eared ref named Booker Turner. I vowed that I would light him up one day and was at a game and standing right in front of me was...Booker Turner. Shamefully, I lit him up. I was younger than. I reminded him of that T and told him that people didn't forget it. As for JB, remember when we got beat by Navy? The next day, the letters to the paper filled a full page with people wanting JB out.

 

[Brooky03]

Syracuse recruits itself don't diminish our program we'll always get respectable classes and talent on paper.

He hired our target portal PG's former coach and whiffed on the player this isn't Calipari at his peak at Kentucky recruiting.

This years class is probably a little better than expected. Next years looks good on paper but it could be the opposite with guys not ready and need time.

4 games against cupcakes this year with very poor coaching and 1-2 possession games at the under 4.

He even had the audacity to chew out Cuffe for not using 2 hands on that put back slam he missed on after Kyle turned the half around with his D. The way he treats that kid is ridiculous while Carlos can do no wrong.

We don’t know that anybody can recruit respectable classes here. That, of course, depends on the definition of respectable, but Syracuse University and the city of Syracuse are not special places. We have a cool stadium and lots of fans. Location isn’t great and NIL is mediocre.

To the point about Cuffe and Carlos, different players react to different coaching and not all mistakes are created equal. When a guy with the ability to make a highlight dunk misses it because he didn’t bother to secure the ball, it’s fair to chew him out. When a player makes mistakes because he just doesn’t have the ability to make the play he needs to make, it’s not going to be fair to chew him out for that. The points about playing time and not having that player on the court are valid, though.

 

[tptcuse]

I have hired probably close to 100 people, maybe more I lost track long ago.I can tell you that we cannot make a proclamation of hire or not based solely on the games so far. We have no idea how he interviewed as opposed to any other they may have interviewed. I have to trust that the people who did the hiring made a decision that was in the best interest of the university. I do personally think Red has some growing to do, as I suspect any new head coach has to do, but the team is slowly getting better. Sure it isn't quick enough for most of our liking, but in honesty it is more on the players not executing than it is Red's decisions. We should have won this game by 20 but lack of execution killed it.

Starting out 0-10 with a point guard who adds nothing positive didn't help.

 

[Jake]

Could be. There are very troubling signs. Every person on this board, every fan in the stands, can see that Carlos is hurting us. He really does nothing well. According to the coaches, this is not the guy they saw all summer. Well, we are playing for real now and this is the guy we got. We need to move on. And there seems to be no reason for the subs. It really is a hodge podge of moves. Petr doesn't play in the first game in NY and the next day he is in a tight spot? He can recruit. The top 2 frosh are real good. Will get better. love this years recruits. But Red has got to start to show us that he gets it and that the job isn't too big for him.

This is exactly where I am as well. I’ve never seen anything so obvious in my life in basketball than what we’re seeing in Carlos. Never.

My hope is Red is trying to give him leash to build his confidence against lesser teams, and it’s just not there. I’d pivot to try to give JJ confidence at the point and roll with him in conference play.

It’s better to admit you whiffed and make a good correction than to whiff and die on that hill. Admitting you’re wrong is a strength, not a weekness.

 

[kcsu]

Got a feeling that his recruiting ability will go down big time once recruits see the guy can’t coach.Who is going to want to play for a guy and a team that never makes the tournament?

Do you know who wasn't a great coach when he was first hired but who recruited so well that his coaching eventually caught up to his recruiting?
Not saying this will happen for Red but it might. If Reds smart he will lean on his newest assistant.

 

[dasher]

Red has a lot to learn on the coaching front that is for sure. He shouldn’t be the head coach for Syracuse at this point in time. He needs to earn his strips and figure out what style of play he wants to play at a lower level. He looks totally lost on key thing like offensive set, defensive principles, and rotations. He shouldn’t be learning on the job. We as a program don’t have time for that after JB held on too long

The problem with that thinking, and you are not wrong, is that we are past that. Red is the coach. And we are going to hope that he improves as a bench coach. It is all we can do right now. Despite what a lot of people would desire.

 

[JustPherU]

I have hired probably close to 100 people, maybe more I lost track long ago.I can tell you that we cannot make a proclamation of hire or not based solely on the games so far. We have no idea how he interviewed as opposed to any other they may have interviewed. I have to trust that the people who did the hiring made a decision that was in the best interest of the university. I do personally think Red has some growing to do, as I suspect any new head coach has to do, but the team is slowly getting better. Sure it isn't quick enough for most of our liking, but in honesty it is more on the players not executing than it is Red's decisions. We should have won this game by 20 but lack of execution killed it.

They didn’t interview anyone else as far as I know

 

[Scooch]

I ran a large company for an investment banking firm, 19k employees and I agree with you for the most part. In the corporate world.
JW made the correct decision/hire. JB and before him RD had 50 years of success. That success was 100% in house, SU family success that you wouldn't dare go outside in replacing JB.
Fans, Alumni, Donors, former players would have been torched. There was no other decision. Red was next in line and he was given and should have been given the job.
Now if after 3 seasons Red doesn't cut it JW has the obligation and purchase to make a change, do a legitimate national search and pick anyone he chooses. John made the only hire he could have made and he will make the change on Red if needed but it won't be until the end of the third, possibly fourth season.

Yup. I said it when he was hired, Autry was the hire to make to not alienate the hoops alums, key boosters, etc.

The only way this program can go outside is if the inside hire flops. Can you imagine the outcry right now if JW reneged on the “coach in waiting” pledge to Autry, hired some mid major hot shot, and we had the same results over the past 38 games? It’d be open season.

I hope Autry works through this and has years of success. If he doesn’t then everyone will be farrrr more accepting of a non-family guy as the next hire.

 

[swish7]

Everyone played and a good time was had by all. Please tell me what you were doing so that I can do that when we play Tenn next week

My 5 year old pooped on himself & the toilet & my 17 year old needed help stringing a lacrosse head. You don't want this parental duties smoke.

 

[dasher]

My 5 year old pooped on himself & the toilet & my 17 year old needed help stringing a lacrosse head. You don't want this parental duties smoke.

Both might be better than watching this team play Tenn. I'm dwelling on it now

 

[chuck]

Coaching is a major problem. Way too many subs and too many minutes where the wrong guys play. Good coaching and we would be a tournament team.

JB did that and was chastised for it..

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well, Red isn’t building off of that, is he. He literally had to get rid of 5 guys I’m from JB’s self proclaimed best class ever.

And he brought in some guys who can play. The problem is he isn’t playing the right guys enough. If we got a little better coaching we might be undefeated.

 

[JustPherU]

Do you know who wasn't a great coach when he was first hired but who recruited so well that his coaching eventually caught up to his recruiting?
Not saying this will happen for Red but it might. If Reds smart he will lean on his newest assistant.

JB was 30 years old and had already coached the Freshman team to some great seasons,and then won right away once he took over for Danforth.
Red is over 50 and has probably learned most of what he is going to by now. Sure you always are learning, but it’s not a great comparison.

 

[Boozercrook]

Do you know who wasn't a great coach when he was first hired but who recruited so well that his coaching eventually caught up to his recruiting?
Not saying this will happen for Red but it might. If Reds smart he will lean on his newest assistant.

I've been waiting to see if someone would make this point. I remember when for years (in a VERY different college basketball environment) people said that JB could recruit but couldn't coach. And then years later people said he could coach but couldn't recruit. I don't agree with a bunch of the decisions that Autry is making right now, or the way the team is playing, but Autry deserves a chance and he is going to get it.

 

[TheCusian]

the only problem with that, and I love the tude, is that we were Taylor's blocked shot away from maybe losing that game. That isn't a sign of us coming together.

It was a great block. Good to see him excel at defense… team needs a guy who wants to lead defensively, w effort.

Lots of new parts, going to take time. Freshman growing into themselves with huge upside.

Just think ppl keep expecting Duke, when we may need to be NC State last year and get better step by step.

 

[Cappy3]

I've been waiting to see if someone would make this point. I remember when for years (in a VERY different college basketball environment) people said that JB could recruit but couldn't coach. And then years later people said he could coach but couldn't recruit. I don't agree with a bunch of the decisions that Autry is making right now, or the way the team is playing, but Autry deserves a chance and he is going to get it.

Well, JB was 26-4 each of his first two years. Couldn’t have been that bad.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Red is doing exactly what he needs to do. When you aren’t getting what you expect from certain guys you experiment with lineups. No one has stepped up consistently to earn consistent minutes. Tonight our best lineup was our three freshman, JJ and Taylor. That group played hard and attacked the basket. Choppa has no fear and Donnie finally started to attack the rim. Taylor knocked down a couple of shots and made two huge defensive plays down the stretch. The past two games we were good from the line too. Still have defensive breakdowns, but our intensity was better in longer stretches tonight. Red is going to find out who wants to get after it and play defense. I was really impressed tonight with Donnie, Choppa and Petar. Petar just knows how to play and he’s physical. We really need that.