Serious question about John Wallace...

[IthacaBarrel]

So some want John Wallace confronted on how he coached a youth basketball game? What exactly should be said?

I see guys and gals for that matter every weekend, doesn't make it right but it was it is. It takes a special breed to coach youth sports these days At what age is it appropriate to not call off the dogs? My oldest daughter's ( 11) lacrosse team beat a team over the winter 27-0. Maybe JW's is coaching girls lacrosse as well

 

[dollarbill44]

I see guys and gals for that matter every weekend, doesn't make it right but it was it is. It takes a special breed to coach youth sports these days At what age is it appropriate to not call off the dogs? My oldest daughter's ( 11) lacrosse team beat a team over the winter 27-0. Maybe JW's is coaching girls lacrosse as well

It is appropriate to call off the dogs at any level if the outcome is not in doubt (i.e. insurmountable) and the other team is not comprised of d-bags or coached by one. Even so, it should usually be about getting your own bench players extra playing time, as opposed to sparing the feelings or punishing the opponent. Show some respect for your own players, if not for the opponent.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It is appropriate to call off the dogs at any level if the outcome is not in doubt (i.e. insurmountable) and the other team is not comprised of d-bags or coached by one. Even so, it should usually be about getting your own bench players extra playing time, as opposed to sparing the feelings or punishing the opponent. Show some respect for your own players, if not for the opponent.

The issue becomes when all the back up players are in and they keep scoring, which was the case with my daughter's team. I call her coach, Spurrier now and SHE has no idea why.

 

[Chip]

In some ways, my favorite SU run to a Final Four. Al McGuire doing the dance. It was at the Meadowlands, right near where I lived. Exciting isn't a strong enough word for the finishes of some of those games. If not for an injury that forced Z out for a few possessions, and a couple crappy foul calls on Wallace, that team could have won it all.

They had a lot in common with the over-achievers from the 1975 team - a big athletic four who was your leading scorer and rebounder (Wallace - Rudy Hackett), workman-like centers (J.B. Reaf - Ernie Siebert), solid pass-first point guards (Z - Jimmy Williams), athletic wing-man (Burgan - Chris Sease). That would have been an incredible accomplishment if they pulled it off.

Me too. Also because I was 22 years old, with barely an ounce of responsibility. Two weekends in a row where my liver was tested.

The Kansas game, and all the impromptu celebrating that occurred afterwords (wild Marshall Street scene, mini road trip to the airport, back to Marshall Street) was one of the most fun days I've ever had.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Me too. Also because I was 22 years old, with barely an ounce of responsibility. Two weekends in a row where my liver was tested.

The Kansas game, and all the impromptu celebrating that occurred afterwords (wild Marshall Street scene, mini road trip to the airport, back to Marshall Street) was one of the most fun days I've ever had.

Agree on every account. Although in 2003, I made the Boston/Albany/ New Orleans swing and it was absolutely ridiculous. Almost cost me my job but oh well...

 

[dollarbill44]

The issue becomes when all the back up players are in and they keep scoring, which was the case with my daughter's team. I call her coach, Spurrier now and SHE has no idea why.

If their worst kids are laying the lumber to your kids, I don't know what to say. I guess it depends on how they're running up the score. Are they pressing, trapping, pushing the tempo or is your team just that bad that there is nothing they can do?

 

[shandeezy7]

Nothing to do with hoops but awesome use of the subjunctive along with the proper predicate nominative pronoun with the verb "to be"...

How many get that right? 1 in a 1000, 1 in 10,000?

Were you an English major?

She is...the most interesting woman in the world...

You could say she knows a thing or two about the English language

 

[jvbj01]

I see guys and gals for that matter every weekend, doesn't make it right but it was it is. It takes a special breed to coach youth sports these days At what age is it appropriate to not call off the dogs? My oldest daughter's ( 11) lacrosse team beat a team over the winter 27-0. Maybe JW's is coaching girls lacrosse as well

I am just curious what is suggested to say to him? I think approaching him on this subject is quite silly.

 

[Bayside44]

Thanks, Bill Jay...

Here is the story that my friend told me this morning (at church of all unlikely places).

My friend coaches a team of 10 year old kids from tiny Easton, CT, that played much larger Danbury yesterday in a tourney in (of all unlikely places) Newtown, CT. The Easton kids were getting killed by the larger, stronger Danbury kids, but the Danbury coach kept his starters in and never eased up, even though he had like 10 kids on the bench ... and the final score was something like 50-10.

After the game, my friend went over to the Danbury coach (Wallace, he said) to congratulate him... and the Danbury coach said to him... "I didn't take out my starters because you had too many fans cheering here." According to my friend, Easton had maybe 30 parents and friends there... and Danbury had maybe 10.

If it were John Wallace, it is a very sad story. If it were he, he did not make any friends for Syracuse yesterday.

In fairness to "John Wallace" sometimes those parents just don't shut up and the starters are in for them moreso than the kids.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

The issue becomes when all the back up players are in and they keep scoring, which was the case with my daughter's team. I call her coach, Spurrier now and SHE has no idea why.

I've been involved in youth sports for 10 years as both parent and coach and I haven't found running up the score to be a problem (and God knows youth sports has more than enough problems).

It usually occurs, as you say, when one team is so far superior to the other that even the better team's worst player could start for the other team.

 

[Ghost]

I've been involved in youth sports for 10 years as both parent and coach and I haven't found running up the score to be a problem (and God knows youth sports has more than enough problems).

It usually occurs, as you say, when one team is so far superior to the other that even the better team's worst player could start for the other team.

I don't think it's that much of an issue either. I genuinely don't think kids care - maybe someone has another perspective for that though. The parents do though.

I lost a game in Little League 45-3 before we got far enough along that they called the game on a 10 run rule (I think that kicked in after 4 or 5 innings). I still remember the next game we lost to them 5-3. After that first game we were the team that came closest to beating them - I still remember that crap decades later as a huge accomplishment. I'm sure I wouldn't if they had pulled the team when they up 10-o to avoid hurting our feelings.

My 7th grade bball team got SHUT OUT in the first half of a game - we were down something like 50-0 (the eventual state HS scoring leader played for the team - went to the varsity the next year) and it was the same thing. It became the biggest rivalry we had. I don't remember anyone crying about it at the time...if anything it probably helped us.

I would have been more embarrassed each time if they marched out the kids from the bench that would be spending their high school days in marching band...the games probably wouldn't have felt so significant either.

I don't know, whatever. Kids will always be ridiculous, but parents are over the top with their whining. My GF is a professor at highly ranked school and she's been contacted by kids parents over grades...it's all same nonsense. Those same parents were the ones complaining when their kids soccer team lost 10-0....not everyone deserves a trophy.

/Rant.

 

[OrangeDW]

 

[Halo]

I guess I come from the line of thought that if the game is definitely won, why wouldn't you want to give the bench players some playing time?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

parents are over the top with their whining.

No doubt. Worst thing about youth sports is the parents. There is always someone who isn't happy about something.

When Ifrst started coaching, I used to listen and try to explain and try to accommodate to the extent possible.

Now I just ignore, and if they persist, I tell them to go themselves...

A lot fewer headaches...

 

[OburgOrange]

What I have experienced coaching youth sports, a team of orphans would be ideal.

 

[swish7]

No doubt. Worst thing about youth sports is the parents. There is always someone who isn't happy about something.

When Ifrst started coaching, I used to listen and try to explain and try to accommodate to the extent possible.

Now I just ignore, and if they persist, I tell them to go themselves...

A lot fewer headaches...

We disagree a lot I think, but I just imagined myself telling little 6 year old Johnny's parents to go themselves, and the thought made me laugh. I accomodate all the dang time, often at the expense of my own kid. I'm over-fair.

I have quite a few great parents. What gets me are the ones who show up 5 minutes after practice starts, or literally as the game starts, and sit in the corner and text for an hour while I struggle to get little Johnny to do the most basic stuff.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I accomodate all the dang time, often at the expense of my own kid. I'm over-fair.

I have quite a few great parents. What gets me are the ones who show up 5 minutes after practice starts, or literally as the game starts, and sit in the corner and text for an hour while I struggle to get little Johnny to do the most basic stuff.

All of the above are very true.

90% of the parents get it. They understand what level their kid is at and appreciate the time that the coach puts in.

It is the other 10% who are the problem.

They think little Johnny or Susie, both of whom would shatter both their legs and their jaw if they tried to walk and chew gum at the same time, is going to be the next Messi, Pujols, Kobe etc...and they are relentless in trying to get their kid an edge.

Meanwhile, their kid shows up to baseball practice without a mitt and then starts off batting practice while standing on the plate facing the pitcher and you know that Mom/Dad has spent exactly zero time with this kid (probably because they are too busy texting their lives away)...

I used to accommodate all the time when I first started. You'll realize that accommodation just encourages these parents to grab for more...

Having said all that, it is great that you coach. Your kid will appreciate it and most of the parents will also.

 

[MGP]

Try being a high school coach after these kids have been coddled and pampered for 10 yrs. & in many cases have no work ethic & have never received any constructive criticism - then try to break them of their bad habits...sorry, am I venting? carry on...

 

[swish7]

I used to accommodate all the time when I first started. You'll realize that accommodation just encourages these parents to grab for more... Having said all that, it is great that you coach. Your kid will appreciate it and most of the parents will also.

Good info. Quasi-related question. I was looking at a lacrosse league for my kid. It's the only thing near my home. They are more of a club team. Unfortunately they have 3 practices a week, 2 are mandatory, and each is apparently 2 hours long. Then games are on Sunday. So, in my opinion, this is way too much for a ~7 year old. Perhaps even for an 8-13 year old. I'm bummed it won't work out right away.

My questions are at what point is it acceptable for a youngling to a) do more than a 1 hour practice on a school night? and b) do more than 1 practice a week? and c) do more than 2 practices a week?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Good info. Quasi-related question. I was looking at a lacrosse league for my kid. It's the only thing near my home. They are more of a club team. Unfortunately they have 3 practices a week, 2 are mandatory, and each is apparently 2 hours long. Then games are on Sunday. So, in my opinion, this is way too much for a ~7 year old. Perhaps even for an 8-13 year old. I'm bummed it won't work out right away.

My questions are at what point is it acceptable for a youngling to a) do more than a 1 hour practice on a school night? and b) do more than 1 practice a week? and c) do more than 2 practices a week?

LOL...Now you are opening a can of worms...

I don't believe that there is any right answer to those questions and it varies from kid to kid.

Do you think your son would WANT to be at a 2 hour lacrosse practice 2 or 3 times a week? It is definitely a very heavy practice schedule for a seven-year old but if he really loves lacrosse and loves playing maybe it won't be too much. If you don't know, see if you can have him try it out for a week to see how he handles it. If they won't let him try it before he commits (and they get to start taking your money) then you probably don't want to be there.

The thing that there is consensus (from the medical profession, not the guys taking your money) on is that focusing on one sport all year around is not good at younger ages. - especially at the time commitment levels required by serious club teams. It causes all sorts of injuries.

My son plays four sports and, as a result, no longer plays for any club teams in any sport.

It is a conundrum because club teams usually offer better training and better competition than local travel teams but, regardless of sport, the commitment levels verge on the ridiculous: the club ALWAYS comes first ie. club baseball practices in the middle of winter come before basketball games, club soccer practices in May come before baseball and lacrosse. In addition, as you have seen, the programs are very rigorous (more practices and more games = more money!!!!).

And this trend has accelerated as clubs have found that they can impose these requirements on their players and families will comply.

I would let your son's desires guide you. He will be the best judge of what he wants, and does not want, to do.

Good Luck.

 

[swish7]

LOL...Now you are opening a can of worms...
Good Luck.

The team is willing to let us try for two practices. I'm already pretty much committed to waiting until next year anyway. It's way too much. 2 hours of practice a week, maybe. 4? no. Shoot, kids have so much frigging homework these days as well. There is just no way. As always, I'll let him decide.

I read an article recently stating that athletes who come up through the programs, say soccer for example, are so incredibly one sided in their skill set and overall athleticism, that a) yes, they can get serious injuries a well rounded athlete might not, and b) they are not very good athletes. Is a soccer player with horse legs and T-Rex arms really a good athlete?

A couple years ago, here in Florida, one of the prominent soccer clubs, scheduled their season during the HS soccer season. I knew a couple folks that were into the soccer scene here and they were livid. It's ridiculous, and yes, a conundrum. This lacrosse league, their season literally spans 3 seasons at the Y. I might just try to get a meetup going, one day a week.

Things seemed a lot easier 30 years ago, growing up in the Syracuse countryside.

 

[Dave85]

I've been involved in youth sports for 10 years as both parent and coach and I haven't found running up the score to be a problem (and God knows youth sports has more than enough problems).

It usually occurs, as you say, when one team is so far superior to the other that even the better team's worst player could start for the other team.

I coach a 5th/6th grade team and we are 10-1. During the season, when we were winning by 20 points we tell our players to lay back and let the other team take some shots. We did it several times because I believe it is good sportsmanship.

However, our game last Saturday was against team we didn't like. When we played them during the season they were undefeated. We beat them 45 to 40 in a barn burner of game. It was really intense. So we line up to shake hands and some of the players on the team we just beat are angry and talking some smack to our players as they walk by saying "you suck". And then the coach says to me with a big attitude, "see you in the playoffs". Also, my assistant coach's wife was coming out of the bathroom and heard the coach giving his post game huddle talk. He's saying our team was a "bunch of hacks" bla bla bla. He totally disrespected us.

So add all that up and I was pretty determined to beat this team in the playoffs and they are really determine to revenge the loss. The game starts and my team comes out on fire. One of our best players scored 20 points. Our smaller guards against their taller players scored 19 points. Normally I would not run up the score. But these guys deserved it. The final score was 63 to 30. This was a playoff game and this guy really made me angry. After the game as we are passing the line shaking hands the guy gives me a big attitude about "You sure beat us good" BS. He said three times with the same attitude. I just looked at him and kept my mouth shut. Normally, I would not run up the score. But if you talk smack you get what you deserve!

Also, the one team that beat us was watching our game because they were playing after us. I wanted them to see us win convincingly so they could think about it all week. We play for the championship this Saturday.