Seriously Johny? Pot calling the kettle black? | Syracusefan.com

Seriously Johny? Pot calling the kettle black?

orangebabe

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"Syracuse to the ACC? Cmon this is getting out of hand now. The thought of that is out of hand[,]" Flynn tweeted Saturday. "New conference. More exposure. More money. Yet we're still talking about "living infractions" & players selling things they own. With all that said if that actually happens... Sorry ACC basketball. In advance[.]"

Did Johny Flynn not leave Syracuse after 2 seasons for more money, or am I missing something here? How is him leaving Syracuse high and dry for the NBA for $$ any different than Syracuse University trying to make things better for themselves by having more stability? Geesh, c'mon Johny, maybe you should have used those two extra years of edu.
 

Zelda Zonk

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If you think those two things are exactly the same... Maybe an extra two years might benefit you.
 

orangebabe

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Whoa Johny, don't be so defensive. They are the same...both are about choosing more $$ over less $$ for the purpose of stability. Both made the decision to better the situation. How is it different? Don't be hypocritical...Oh, and I would gladly accept two more years of education for the purpose of gaining more knowledge...would you?
 

pfister1

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Whoa Johny, don't be so defensive. They are the same...both are about choosing more $$ over less $$ for the purpose of stability. Both made the decision to better the situation. How is it different? Don't be hypocritical...Oh, and I would gladly accept two more years of education for the purpose of gaining more knowledge...would you?

I think you missed Flynn's point entirely, but that's ok. He's pointing out that Universities and Conferences chase every last nickel and will make the most unnatural of decisions to get that last nickel, yet it's still an NCAA infraction if the University provides a player with Cream Cheese to go on his bagel.
 

orangebabe

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It must be a blonde thing. To me, they all based their decisions on more $$. Johny had a free ride and could have gotten a fantastic education, and he chose more $$. I can't say I wouldn't do the same.

I realize the players do not reap the benefits initially, but they do in the long run. They either go to the NBA, or they walk away debt free with their $100k plus education. They are given a luxury that most students are not given. I'm tired of hearing about the poor student athletes on scholarship; because the truth is, other students pay for their education and do not get the exposure these kids do. They too have to pay for their own cream cheese.
 

pfister1

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It must be a blonde thing. To me, they all based their decisions on more $$. Johny had a free ride and could have gotten a fantastic education, and he chose more $$. I can't say I wouldn't do the same.

I realize the players do not reap the benefits initially, but they do in the long run. They either go to the NBA, or they walk away debt free with their $100k plus education. They are given a luxury that most students are not given. I'm tired of hearing about the poor student athletes on scholarship; because the truth is, other students pay for their education and do not get the exposure these kids do. They too have to pay for their own cream cheese.

Maybe Jonny could have had a fantastic education, but that isn't what he wanted, he wanted to become a professional basketball player. So why was he stuck in a system that required him to go to school in order to get himself to the NBA.

There is no denying that the system exploits the athletes. Just the fact that these kids are forced to go to college in order to eventually make it to the professional ranks makes the point. Schools recruit kids to come, give them an education that most don't seem to want or care about in order that the school can make more and more and more. I am not an advocate for paying the players, but then again I'm not an advocate for the schools and NCAA prostituting itself to the extent that they have.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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Whoa Johny, don't be so defensive. They are the same...both are about choosing more $$ over less $$ for the purpose of stability. Both made the decision to better the situation. How is it different? Don't be hypocritical...Oh, and I would gladly accept two more years of education for the purpose of gaining more knowledge...would you?
No they are not the same. One group, universities and colleges are supposed to be pursuing education of young people to prepare them to follow their dream and earn a living. The other group, players, are there, at least in part, to pursue a professional job playing sports. JFlynn maximized his potential earnings by leaving when he did. Another year in college might have cost him money. In essence, he maximized his time at SU for his chosen profession.

I love college hoops, but the US would be a better place if football and basketball were played at a club level, rather than by colleges and people who had no interest in learning could go that route.
 

texascpa

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He wasn't chastising the university, he was just stating a fact - the ACC provides more money...oh, and the ACC basketball teams are now in big trouble.
 

orangebabe

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No they are not the same. One group, universities and colleges are supposed to be pursuing education of young people to prepare them to follow their dream and earn a living. The other group, players, are there, at least in part, to pursue a professional job playing sports. JFlynn maximized his potential earnings by leaving when he did. Another year in college might have cost him money. In essence, he maximized his time at SU for his chosen profession.

I love college hoops, but the US would be a better place if football and basketball were played at a club level, rather than by colleges and people who had no interest in learning could go that route.

Did Johny really maximize his earnings? He played injured his first year, got traded after his second, and became somewhat of an unwanted commodity in the NBA. If no one picks him up and keeps him, he has no place to go, and suddenly that secure inc0me is gone. The NBA is no guarantee and is even a shorter career than someone in the business world outside of sports. If he had a 4-year degree, he could have pursued his graduate degree and been almost guaranteed a quite significant source of income for the next 30 years.

I am not saying he should have stayed in school, I am just saying he had options. I even agreed I would probably have done the same thing he did. I realize he upped his draft status by leaving, I do realize that. I am just saying it's hard to really say if pro sports gets you more money in the longrun...don't 56% of the NFL players and above 50? of the NBA players end up bankrupt? I wonder what the stats are on those who have a 4-year degree.
 

PeteCalvin

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He wasn't chastising the university, he was just stating a fact - the ACC provides more money...oh, and the ACC basketball teams are now in big trouble.

Yes. That's the way I read it too. He's telling the ACC that the SU Train is coming, so they better get outta the way.
 

jr4750

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I think you missed Flynn's point entirely, but that's ok. He's pointing out that Universities and Conferences chase every last nickel and will make the most unnatural of decisions to get that last nickel, yet it's still an NCAA infraction if the University provides a player with Cream Cheese to go on his bagel.
If you've ever eaten at the Brooklyn Deli you'd know that cream cheese ain't cheap!! :)
 

BlackKnight76

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Did Johny really maximize his earnings? He played injured his first year, got traded after his second, and became somewhat of an unwanted commodity in the NBA. If no one picks him up and keeps him, he has no place to go, and suddenly that secure inc0me is gone. The NBA is no guarantee and is even a shorter career than someone in the business world outside of sports. If he had a 4-year degree, he could have pursued his graduate degree and been almost guaranteed a quite significant source of income for the next 30 years.

This is all monday morning quarterbacking. You don't leave lottery money on the table unless you can absolutely get a shot at going #1, and I don't think Jonny had much potential to go above #6.

Injuries can happen everywhere, they could've easily happened in college. Look at his last game, he got mauled by Blake Griffin. That could've easily happened, and been more serious, in a game against someone like Pitt the following year. Jonny did what he needed to do for Jonny, just like Syracuse did what it needed to do for Syracuse. I understand that Jonny may be a bit upset, as a player on SU he probably has more intimate feelings about Big East BBall than any of us.

Also, I think there is validity in his second statement, although that really depends on what side of that debate you fall. I'm not looking to get into that here.
 

pfister1

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Did Johny really maximize his earnings? He played injured his first year, got traded after his second, and became somewhat of an unwanted commodity in the NBA. If no one picks him up and keeps him, he has no place to go, and suddenly that secure inc0me is gone. The NBA is no guarantee and is even a shorter career than someone in the business world outside of sports. If he had a 4-year degree, he could have pursued his graduate degree and been almost guaranteed a quite significant source of income for the next 30 years.

I am not saying he should have stayed in school, I am just saying he had options. I even agreed I would probably have done the same thing he did. I realize he upped his draft status by leaving, I do realize that. I am just saying it's hard to really say if pro sports gets you more money in the longrun...don't 56% of the NFL players and above 50? of the NBA players end up bankrupt? I wonder what the stats are on those who have a 4-year degree.


I would argue that that degree won't guarantee him anything. There are huge numbers of unemployed or underemployedcollege grads today. His status as a former NBA player, whether he ever plays another game or not, may serve him better than a college degree. His outgoing personality will make that even more likely in my view.
 

armory

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The difference is... it was always Johnny's dream to play in the NBA ... it was not always SU's dream to be in the ACC.
 

Knicks411

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It must be a blonde thing. To me, they all based their decisions on more $$. Johny had a free ride and could have gotten a fantastic education, and he chose more $$. I can't say I wouldn't do the same.

I realize the players do not reap the benefits initially, but they do in the long run. They either go to the NBA, or they walk away debt free with their $100k plus education. They are given a luxury that most students are not given. I'm tired of hearing about the poor student athletes on scholarship; because the truth is, other students pay for their education and do not get the exposure these kids do. They too have to pay for their own cream cheese.

And if a family friend gives them some money for the cream cheese, it's no big deal. Or if the regular college student wants to sell something he has to make a little extra cash, no one cares.
 

orangebabe

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This is all monday morning quarterbacking. You don't leave lottery money on the table unless you can absolutely get a shot at going #1, and I don't think Jonny had much potential to go above #6.

Injuries can happen everywhere, they could've easily happened in college. Look at his last game, he got mauled by Blake Griffin. That could've easily happened, and been more serious, in a game against someone like Pitt the following year. Jonny did what he needed to do for Jonny, just like Syracuse did what it needed to do for Syracuse. I understand that Jonny may be a bit upset, as a player on SU he probably has more intimate feelings about Big East BBall than any of us.

Also, I think there is validity in his second statement, although that really depends on what side of that debate you fall. I'm not looking to get into that here.

I don't disagree with anyone here that Johny did or did not make a good choice. I even said I would have made the same decision most likely. I am just making the point that his decision just like Syracuse University's decision was based on the $$ which is the same thing. Everyone had choices, and I would have done the same given both situations. Johny, on the other hand, is bashing theUniversity for making a move they really did not have a choice in making, just like him. It is all based on $$. Could Johny have gone #1, possibly. Could the Big East survive, and SU play a big part in the growth of a better f-ball conf, perhaps. No one knows what will become of this situation, but to say things without knowing what could have been or could be, except that the greater chance of stability is with the choice made, then it's really quite ignorant.
 

orangebabe

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And if a family friend gives them some money for the cream cheese, it's no big deal. Or if the regular college student wants to sell something he has to make a little extra cash, no one cares.

While I agree with most NCAA rules, I don't agree with the fact that the athletes are not allowed to sell things that become theirs. It's like saying they cannot buy a new car and then sell it. I think this aspect of the rules is completely wrong.
 

pfister1

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While I agree with most NCAA rules, I don't agree with the fact that the athletes are not allowed to sell things that become theirs. It's like saying they cannot buy a new car and then sell it. I think this aspect of the rules is completely wrong.

If you could guarantee that items would be given to them on a persnal consumption basis and the items would only be sold for FMV great, but the rule exists to. prevent schools from channeling money to playrs by having boosters pay 1000s for items of no real value.
 

Henny & Coke

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"Syracuse to the ACC? Cmon this is getting out of hand now. The thought of that is out of hand[,]" Flynn tweeted Saturday. "New conference. More exposure. More money. Yet we're still talking about "living infractions" & players selling things they own. With all that said if that actually happens... Sorry ACC basketball. In advance[.]"

Did Johny Flynn not leave Syracuse after 2 seasons for more money, or am I missing something here? How is him leaving Syracuse high and dry for the NBA for $$ any different than Syracuse University trying to make things better for themselves by having more stability? Geesh, c'mon Johny, maybe you should have used those two extra years of edu.

Orangebabe, what I really need to know is where you got your sweet avatar picture? Can I get that from you? Would love to get it printed and maybe signed...
 

OttoMets

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This is all monday morning quarterbacking. You don't leave lottery money on the table unless you can absolutely get a shot at going #1, and I don't think Jonny had much potential to go above #6. If he really wanted to maximize every last dollar and didn't care to get a college degree, sure, the logic is good. He left at the right moment if that is the case.

Injuries can happen everywhere, they could've easily happened in college. Look at his last game, he got mauled by Blake Griffin. That could've easily happened, and been more serious, in a game against someone like Pitt the following year. True again. Jonny did what he needed to do for Jonny, just like Syracuse did what it needed to do for Syracuse. One problem with this - in Jonny doing what he (wanted, not 'needed') to do for Jonny, he chose to drop out of school while he was behind in his coursework, causing us to lose a future scholarship. Under the ridiculously low bar set by the NCAA with the APR requirements, a student dropping out of school early doesn't even need to complete the semester or year - he only needs to complete the coursework required of him on the date he leaves. Flynn didn't care to adhere to even this very modest requirement (even guys like John Wall and Derrick Cousins saw it fit to meet the requirement) and hurt his school in the process. All for the sake of...?
 

orangebabe

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Orangebabe, what I really need to know is where you got your sweet avatar picture? Can I get that from you? Would love to get it printed and maybe signed...

I know, isn't it awesome! I actually stole it from Derrick Coleman's facebook. I can link you to his page or email you the pic if you want.
 

Zelda Zonk

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Whoa Johny, don't be so defensive. They are the same...both are about choosing more $$ over less $$ for the purpose of stability. Both made the decision to better the situation. How is it different? Don't be hypocritical...Oh, and I would gladly accept two more years of education for the purpose of gaining more knowledge...would you?

My point is this:
As an outsider, you're sitting there looking at superficial information, and making an assessment that the two situations are identical. That's a position of arrogance- you simply think you know more than you do.
But, let's take the points you are actually discussing... Flynn owed you, the student body, and SU nothing more than he gave already. He went to Syracuse in order to advance him toward his eventual goal. He was given a year-to-year scholarship, and he played hard during those years. It's not as if he was given a 4-year scholarship and he skipped out on the remaining two years, rendering them useless. Another player used the next two years. There was no contract violated.

The school, however, should have a different level of commitment, and they certainly have a different set of responsibilities.

"Oh, and I would gladly accept two more years of education for the purpose of gaining more knowledge...would you?"
The answer to that— "depends." Depends on what i was doing at the time. Depends on whether or not i believed i could develop and improve myself in other ways, by other means. And the answer recognizes there is no window that closes on education. He could resume those two years at any point in his life.

Fact is, "four years" is an arbitrary number. It's not an empirical fact that 4 prepares you any more for life or career than 3 could or 5 would. If 2 gets you your dream job and millions of dollars, and mitigates your risk of injury, you'd be a fool not to consider it. Lastly, it's a common fault in the 'logic' to assume that every should have the same ideals as you.

I'm not sure why you feel so betrayed by Flynn. He represented us well, and if you were to err on the side away from complete objectivity, i would hope you would be defending him.
 

BlackKnight76

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If he stays to finish his coursework, while admirable, he loses out on the chance to showcase his skills and prep for the camps and combines and whatnot. It's a crappy rule in that regard.
 

pfister1

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Just another example of how the model is broken. The NCAA keeps attempting to put band aid after band aid on the system trying to make it look more like the old model where the point of a student athlete attending college was to get a degree and participation in athletics was designed to be a complement to academics and in some cases a means to an end, not one where the point of attending university has become the athletic endeavor.

Maybe the NCAA should look at a rule where the scholarship that you give to a guy is burned until he (a) graduates or (b) the class he entered with graduates regardless of whether he chooses to stick around. This might provide incentives to schools to recruit true scholar athletes and force the the development of professional athletes back on the pro leagues.
 

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