Seriously Johny? Pot calling the kettle black?

[DoctorBombay]

Not for nothing, but I didn't read that statement as a "bashing" of SU- I think everyone understands (or should by now), why the move was made. No one I know is doing cartwheels about the move- just resigned that it had to be done.
He's pointing out the hypocrisy of schools doing what they "need" to do to get bucks, while placing petty restrictions on the players who make those bucks possible.
How that relates to his early entry into the NBA, which the players had to SUE THE NCAA for, btw- I'm not sure is relevant here.
Seems like apples & oranges.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don't disagree with anyone here that Johny did or did not make a good choice. I even said I would have made the same decision most likely. I am just making the point that his decision just like Syracuse University's decision was based on the $$ which is the same thing. Everyone had choices, and I would have done the same given both situations. Johny, on the other hand, is bashing theUniversity for making a move they really did not have a choice in making, just like him. It is all based on $$. Could Johny have gone #1, possibly. Could the Big East survive, and SU play a big part in the growth of a better -ball conf, perhaps. No one knows what will become of this situation, but to say things without knowing what could have been or could be, except that the greater chance of stability is with the choice made, then it's really quite ignorant.

No. he is bashing the hypocrisy of schools reaching for money, then making kids ineligible for selling things that belong to them. That was his point. Sometimes its easier to see hypocrisy when you haven't spent 4 years immersed in its womb, which is what higher education is all about.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Did Johny really maximize his earnings? He played injured his first year, got traded after his second, and became somewhat of an unwanted commodity in the NBA. If no one picks him up and keeps him, he has no place to go, and suddenly that secure inc0me is gone. The NBA is no guarantee and is even a shorter career than someone in the business world outside of sports. If he had a 4-year degree, he could have pursued his graduate degree and been almost guaranteed a quite significant source of income for the next 30 years.

I am not saying he should have stayed in school, I am just saying he had options. I even agreed I would probably have done the same thing he did. I realize he upped his draft status by leaving, I do realize that. I am just saying it's hard to really say if pro sports gets you more money in the longrun...don't 56% of the NFL players and above 50? of the NBA players end up bankrupt? I wonder what the stats are on those who have a 4-year degree.

Why is it that people who feel betrayed by young black men leaving college early to make millions ALWAYS ASSUME that those young men CANNOT go back to school and finish their degree?
Why is there not this same vitriolic outrage when young white kids leave HIGH SCHOOL to play professional hockey, or leave HIGH SCHOOL, go to community college for one year, just to be the #1 pick in the baseball draft, which provides much less guarnteed money that the NBA?

True story. A friend of mine from law school went the 4 year route in college, forgoing professional baseball. His first summer in rookie ball, after college, he tore his hamstring. Never played again. (You could still see where the rip was in his leg.) I commented that I bet he was glad he had his degree. He said no, he should have signed out of high school. He could have contracted for the team to pay for college. He missed out on 4 years of trying to make the big leagues. That's his take as a highly educated person. Take your shot while you can, you can always get your degree.

 

[orangebabe]

Why is it that people who feel betrayed by young black men leaving college early to make millions ALWAYS ASSUME that those young men CANNOT go back to school and finish their degree?
Why is there not this same vitriolic outrage when young white kids leave HIGH SCHOOL to play professional hockey, or leave HIGH SCHOOL, go to community college for one year, just to be the #1 pick in the baseball draft, which provides much less guarnteed money that the NBA?

True story. A friend of mine from law school went the 4 year route in college, forgoing professional baseball. His first summer in rookie ball, after college, he tore his hamstring. Never played again. (You could still see where the rip was in his leg.) I commented that I bet he was glad he had his degree. He said no, he should have signed out of high school. He could have contracted for the team to pay for college. He missed out on 4 years of trying to make the big leagues. That's his take as a highly educated person. Take your shot while you can, you can always get your degree.

Oh, I agree, take the opportunity when it's there. Most people, however, don't end up going back once they decide the other alternative. I would have done exactly what Johny did, and I wasn't criticising his decision in the least bit. Truth of the matter is, however, both his and the University's decision had to do with $$. You have to take it while it's there.

 

[OttoMets]

If he stays to finish his coursework, while admirable, he loses out on the chance to showcase his skills and prep for the camps and combines and whatnot. It's a crappy rule in that regard.

It's an awful rule; no dispute there. But it's an incredibly low standard - again, he didn't have to finish his coursework, he just had to be up-to-date on his coursework. As in, if he left school when he declared (I don't recall the day; but let's call it 15 April), he didn't need to wrap up his semester's coursework and take his finals, he only had to complete the work he should have completed by 15 April while he was still an active student. And he didn't. He hadn't been going to class and he had been blowing off work while he was still a titular student, before he declared. And that's why he - and Harris and Devendorf - cost his team a scholarship.

Yeah, it's a dumb rule; it doesn't do anything to incentivize finishing what one started, much less completing degree requirements. But it is a rule, and Flynn opted to neglect his obligations long before he declared and began the NBA workout process. No Syracuse basketball player - Flynn included - owes any of us anything. But he owes his teammates and program something, he chose not to do so, and he's a worse teammate for it. Wesley Johnson could drop out of school and make it to his NBA workouts without getting us dinged in the APR, and there's no reason why any other player can't do the same.

 

[OttoMets]

Why is it that people who feel betrayed by young black men leaving college early to make millions ALWAYS ASSUME that those young men CANNOT go back to school and finish their degree?
Why is there not this same vitriolic outrage when young white kids leave HIGH SCHOOL to play professional hockey, or leave HIGH SCHOOL, go to community college for one year, just to be the #1 pick in the baseball draft, which provides much less guarnteed money that the NBA?

Because I don't watch hockey. And I think every bit as badly about these ignoramus baseball players as I do about Eddie Griffin or John Wall.

It's got nothing to do with race.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Oh, for the love of....

We go to college...to develop skills...to get a degree...to enhance our employment opportunities...to get a job...that makes us money. Period.
If an athlete can speed up that process & make it to the end goal, ie; TO MAKE MONEY, then why shouldn't he?
He can always come back & finish the idealistic vision of being an "educated man", by obtaining his degree later.

I had a friend who dropped out his sophomore year at SU & worked in a Wall Street mail room. We ragged him about leaving early, but by the time we got out, he was a few years ahead, & was making more money while having much more real experience. It took YEARS to catch up to him income wise, & 10 years later, he got his BA from NYU. I know numerous cases of people finishing on time & doing nothing, & others dropping out early but being very successful.

Frankly, I think "getting a degree" if you are able to maximize your worth as an athlete is highly overrated. Just another "myth" perpetuated by the NCAA, to maintain the status quo. JMHO

 

[MonsterGame]

It's the system.

Let's see. Medical intern's get paid diddle squat and work 36 hour days because it's the system. Many college grads have to work as interns to get a foot in the door somewhere because it's the system. College athletes have to play ball for free, oops, I meant for a free education, where other's go 50 to 100Gs in debt because it's the system. You think you've got a secure job, wait until your company starts having money problems.

Get a grip folks. Both individuals and corporations do things for monetary reasons. Maybe life would be fair if everyone got 70k per year, no matter if you were Bill Gates or the hobo lying in a back alley, problem is, no one would have an incentive to actually do anything then.

If your looking for loyalty, get a family, at least there's the possibility of loyalty there. The rest of the time, money matters. And it is all apples, no apples and oranges. Your just splitting hairs if you try to say things are different.

If money didn't matter, Flynn doesn't go pro early.
If money didn't matter, SU doesn't join the ACC.
If money didn't matter, the Big East would have never formed in the first place.
If money didn't matter, we'd all still be swinging from vines and licking each others bums clean.

 

[DoctorBombay]

It's the system.

Let's see. Medical intern's get paid diddle squat and work 36 hour days because it's the system. Many college grads have to work as interns to get a foot in the door somewhere because it's the system. College athletes have to play ball for free, oops, I meant for a free education, where other's go 50 to 100Gs in debt because it's the system. You think you've got a secure job, wait until your company starts having money problems.

Get a grip folks. Both individuals and corporations do things for monetary reasons. Maybe life would be fair if everyone got 70k per year, no matter if you were Bill Gates or the hobo lying in a back alley, problem is, no one would have an incentive to actually do anything then.

If your looking for loyalty, get a family, at least there's the possibility of loyalty there. The rest of the time, money matters. And it is all apples, no apples and oranges. Your just splitting hairs if you try to say things are different.

If money didn't matter, Flynn doesn't go pro early.
If money didn't matter, SU doesn't join the ACC.
If money didn't matter, the Big East would have never formed in the first place.
If money didn't matter, we'd all still be swinging from vines & licking each others bums clean.

You had me till this last one...

 

[Victory Lap]

If you think those two things are exactly the same... Maybe an extra two years might benefit you.

can i like this twice?

 

[scottynguyen]

we'd all still be swinging from vines and licking each others bums clean.

... go on ...

 

[orangebabe]

It's the system.

Let's see. Medical intern's get paid diddle squat and work 36 hour days because it's the system. Many college grads have to work as interns to get a foot in the door somewhere because it's the system. College athletes have to play ball for free, oops, I meant for a free education, where other's go 50 to 100Gs in debt because it's the system. You think you've got a secure job, wait until your company starts having money problems.

Get a grip folks. Both individuals and corporations do things for monetary reasons. Maybe life would be fair if everyone got 70k per year, no matter if you were Bill Gates or the hobo lying in a back alley, problem is, no one would have an incentive to actually do anything then.

If your looking for loyalty, get a family, at least there's the possibility of loyalty there. The rest of the time, money matters. And it is all apples, no apples and oranges. Your just splitting hairs if you try to say things are different.

If money didn't matter, Flynn doesn't go pro early.
If money didn't matter, SU doesn't join the ACC.
If money didn't matter, the Big East would have never formed in the first place.
If money didn't matter, we'd all still be swinging from vines and licking each others bums clean.

Exactly, my point...this was a money thing, and I never had an issue with it. What I had an issue with was Pot calling the Kettle Black, because Pot did the same type of thing for $$ and was criticizing the Kettle for doing the same. Neither was wrong for doing it, but Johny needs to stop being so critical of Syracuse's decision.

 

[Victory Lap]

It must be a blonde thing. To me, they all based their decisions on more $$. Johny had a free ride and could have gotten a fantastic education, and he chose more $$. I can't say I wouldn't do the same.

I realize the players do not reap the benefits initially, but they do in the long run. They either go to the NBA, or they walk away debt free with their $100k plus education. They are given a luxury that most students are not given. I'm tired of hearing about the poor student athletes on scholarship

Long run means nothing if you come from a family in poverty. Broke folks don't have the luxury of waiting for the pie in the sky. Mom's car breaks down and she can't get to work, but you can't help her. While businessmen in Italian loafers reap a fortune off of you. And punish you for selling a jersey for a few hundred dollars.

 

[orangebabe]

Long run means nothing if you come from a family in poverty. Broke folks don't have the luxury of waiting for the pie in the sky. Mom's car breaks down and she can't get to work, but you can't help her. While businessmen in Italian loafers reap a fortune off of you. And punish you for selling a jersey for a few hundred dollars.

I'm not sure how many times I have to reitterate, I DO NOT BLAME JOHNY FLYNN FOR HIS DECISION TO LEAVE SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY EARLY, AND I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. My point in this whole thread is to state, that Johny Flynn has no right to criticize someone or something for taking $$ to better their situation, when he did the same exact thing. Period, end of discussion.

 

[Victory Lap]

That I can agree with. I was responding specifically to your comment about being sick of student athletes complaining when they have this golden nugget of a degree to look forward to down the road. I'm saying, that degree don't mean if you and your family need money now and you have a talent that makes money but suits won't let you share in the profits they reap from your talent.

I would dip to Europe Brandon Jennings style until the NCAA figures out how to compensate college players fairly.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I'm not sure how many times I have to reitterate, I DO NOT BLAME JOHNY FLYNN FOR HIS DECISION TO LEAVE SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY EARLY, AND I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. My point in this whole thread is to state, that Johny Flynn has no right to criticize someone or something for taking $$ to better their situation, when he did the same exact thing. Period, end of discussion.

My point is, your statement is too vague and uninformed to have any manner of validity. And, again- it's not "the exact same thing." You fail to recognize nuance at every step. But, hey- fine... i guess you're comfortable making blanket statements about the lives of people you only know via interwebs.

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

There is way too much over analyzing going on here. Flynn said what he felt, whether he was a hypocrite or not, it is the way he feels. Flynn, obviously, bleeds orange to have such a strong opinion: I like it.

No need to judge. Flynn voiced his onion on what he felt is best for his alma mater. Can't see anything wrong with it. His decision to go pro has nothing to do with his comment.

Just my opinion.

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Tapatalk'd from my Droid