Class of 2025 SF Sadiq White (NC / IMG) COMMITTED & SIGNED TO SYRACUSE (5/29/24)

[Hopkins16]

What part about our current coaching staff fits what you just typed?

That is why I said Red needs to get it together (even if it means adjusting his staff this off season) or he should be let go after next season along with most or all of his staff. He has work to do to survive. I refuse to believe he got this far and do not have the ability to coach defense. If I am wrong, then again, Red should go after year 3 if there's no major signs of improvement.

 

[bnoro]

That is why I said Red needs to get it together (even if it means adjusting his staff this off season) or he should be let go after next season along with most or all of his staff. He has work to do to survive. I refuse to believe he got this far and do not have the ability to coach defense. If I am wrong, then again, Red should go after year 3 if there's no major signs of improvement.

He should go now. You don't waste a year of development in college when players are here 2-3 years. If a coach has proven he can't develop guys then get rid.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

That is why I said Red needs to get it together (even if it means adjusting his staff this off season) or he should be let go after next season along with most or all of his staff. He has work to do to survive. I refuse to believe he got this far and do not have the ability to coach defense. If I am wrong, then again, Red should go after year 3 if there's no major signs of improvement.

I’m also assuming Red gets another year to ‘show something,’ while another good HC fit for us gets poached, but what i worry about is that maybe we finish next year with a couple more wins than this year. And the rainbows and unicorns contingent says, “See! Progress! Be patient.” And we just sit as a middle of the league team for five more years…. And if it’s five, what’s the impetus for change, then?

”20 games!“ has been the shouting point standard for almost two years. 20 games and no tournament. 20 games and no tournament should be the Floor for a Syracuse team, not a “look what we did last year” thing.

 

[cuseincincy]

That is why I said Red needs to get it together (even if it means adjusting his staff this off season) or he should be let go after next season along with most or all of his staff. He has work to do to survive. I refuse to believe he got this far and do not have the ability to coach defense. If I am wrong, then again, Red should go after year 3 if there's no major signs of improvement.

I agree. We've known this team's flaws and weaknesses from day one. Why do people keep getting madder and madder about the same thing? The games Red needs to win are the close ones. This team will be overmatched like it or not and will struggle to compete at times. That is a known. But Red needs to coach this team to more wins like the BC and Ga Tech games. Texas, Texas Tech, GTown, Wake and ND were games he needed to win a couple of. 7-7 the rest of the way is attainable but 5-9 is a more likely outcome. If Red can't coach 4 more wins out of this roster perhaps he doesn't deserve another year because 7 of those teams are no better than Syracuse right now.

 

[baggerbob]

That is why I said Red needs to get it together (even if it means adjusting his staff this off season) or he should be let go after next season along with most or all of his staff. He has work to do to survive. I refuse to believe he got this far and do not have the ability to coach defense. If I am wrong, then again, Red should go after year 3 if there's no major signs of improvement.

The program has been in a tail spin for at least 9 years. Not moving on from Red just adds another year to that.
It's time to move on from everything associated with the JB years and start to rebuild the program.
We need a new idea like what Fran has brought to the football program.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

In an ideal world, sure, a stronger bias toward ‘positivity’ would be swell. But, our current reality dictates something different. I’m always going to be in favor of Critical Thinking, where ever that leads. A forum that is strictly a pep rally is not of interest. Are we really supposed to ignore Truth? Why? Some people may be ‘soothed’ that way, but I’d suggest it’s not beneficial to anyone and certainly not toward upholding or rebuilding the standards of Syracuse Basketball.

Secondly, per your earlier post, yes, it’s lovely that Sadiq is reaffirming his commitment. But, no, it’s not realistic for fans to have the same perspective. It’s a completely different scenario. These recruits— these ‘kids’—have been affiliated or aware of SU basketball for only a few to a handful of years. Many of the fans on this board have been associated with the program for half a century. As alums, who committed to Syracuse, and then with a lifelong commitment of time and money and emotion. We don’t have personal relationships with the coaches. We are likely to be more objective than someone who has had constant communication and visits with staff for a few years. It’s not the same thing and the standards are different for each type of relationship.

The ‘excuse’ that Red is dealing with and will have to deal with roster turnover… well, that’s not a valid excuse, seeing as how that’s both “on him” and a condition of this NIL and Portal era. Everyone is dealing with that. And most seem to be managing it better than we are.

I‘m excited to see Sadiq next year. Even though I question certain aspects of his game, i also recognize what he can contribute, and I have always just hoped he has been devekoping into a more well-rounded player. Not just for me/us, but because I want to see his potentials fully realized in the NBA, eventually.

There needs to be a balance between negativity and positive statements. Otherwise you create a negative environment that does not attract quality players to play for that school. There is more negativity on this board than ever before even when they wanted to kick Boeheim (it was past time) to the curb.

in the case of this past class of incoming players, people were excited that the team picked up a center like Lampkin (who has conditioning concerns) and Davis a small forward that is a proven inside scorer. Questions were raised about the quality of a point guard and outside threat but it came down to money at least for the point guard. It is on the HC because the money he had did not buy the requisite talent. Let’s fire him Instead of giving him a chance (after winning 20 games). I’m just saying we are about to enter the phase of hiring and firing head coaches on every other year basis.

 

[GHLF]

Pretty interesting that one of our recruits can see past the negativity of the board to believe in the coach that recruited him. I listened to a recent) podcast (before I dropped him) from a former board poster who started out recognizing that Syracuse has just won 2 ACC games and then casted shade whether the listeners would support the HC removal if he started to lose more games.

Surprising that a highly recruit committed to the school has more faith and loyalty to the Head Coach than “fans” who at the time were calling for the removal of the HC when he was 7-7 at the time. Vicious fans.

Even if the writing is on the wall, isn’t it better to show support and root for your team to win (even in a perceived down year) instead of casting negativity that could influence committed recruits to change their mind about their commitments.

Alternatively, keep up the negative comments and remove the HC and have the recruits that commit to play for him at Syracuse go elsewhere.

I appreciate Mike Water's for his objectivity. Honestly some people are truly vicious and heartless. Def a stacked deck this year. Do you want Red to start throwing his players under the bus and be like some here, like beat the 18-22 year old creeper posse. I have a question for all the haters, lip smackers? are you season ticket holders? and do you donate to NIL?

 

[bnoro]

There needs to be a balance between negativity and positive statements. Otherwise you create a negative environment that does not attract quality players to play for that school. There is more negativity on this board than ever before even when they wanted to kick Boeheim (it was past time) to the curb.

in the case of this past class of incoming players, people were excited that the team picked up a center like Lampkin (who has conditioning concerns) and Davis a small forward that is a proven inside scorer. Questions were raised about the quality of a point guard and outside threat but it came down to money at least for the point guard. It is on the HC because the money he had did not buy the requisite talent. Let’s fire him Instead of giving him a chance (after winning 20 games). I’m just saying we are about to enter the phase of hiring and firing head coaches on every other year basis.

Or, maybe if there was better coaching, the players that we brought in would have their strengths better utilized and there would be more offensive/defensive cohesiveness.

At this point I believe it's coaching far more than talent. Hard to miss on talent evaluation of an entire transfer class.

 

[GHLF]

College is supposed to be a training ground for young players to develop. That is why coaching is important. A player shouldn't come in to any program and leave without improvement both offensively and defensively.

I have a question, looking at our defense last year, what do you think? He committed to man, our metrics were good until significant depletion occurred. Who implemented that last year, what happened this year? Does he forget how to implement man-to-man as well as ZONE principles in such a short period of time, or was it something else? THIS WAS A TRAINWRECK WAITING TO HAPPEN FOR 10 YEARS. This was addressed to Bnoro btw, ty as well

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There needs to be a balance between negativity and positive statements. Otherwise you create a negative environment that does not attract quality players to play for that school. There is more negativity on this board than ever before even when they wanted to kick Boeheim (it was past time) to the curb.

in the case of this past class of incoming players, people were excited that the team picked up a center like Lampkin (who has conditioning concerns) and Davis a small forward that is a proven inside scorer. Questions were raised about the quality of a point guard and outside threat but it came down to money at least for the point guard. It is on the HC because the money he had did not buy the requisite talent. Let’s fire him Instead of giving him a chance (after winning 20 games). I’m just saying we are about to enter the phase of hiring and firing head coaches on every other year basis.

Balance. Well, balance is an organic thing. You would see more positivity if we were on a positive trend. What you are seeing is a reflection of the state of the program, and even though everyone would like a positive environment for recruits, it‘s a discussion forum first and foremost. Phonying up an environment is unnatural, unreasonable, and ineffective toward your ostensible goals.

There’s no reason to contrive anything. Recruits look closely at everything. They see the warts, even if we were to gloss over them. They’re not stupid and they have more at stake than we do. So, yes, the board may be more negative than ever before, and that’s commensurate with our performance. Why shouldn’t the two go hand in hand?

Giving Red a chance? If you watch the games and are convinced the fault is entirely on the players not having sufficient integral talent, then you can certainly rationalize that a roster overhaul might be all Red needs. But, if you watch and observe that we don’t game plan well, don’t have schemes or plays that optimize performance potential, don’t execute fundamentals on either side of the ball… and then ALSO recognize that the HC is both the person responsible for aquiring these players and teaching them how to do all of the above… then I don’t see why you aren’t assigning culpability where it obviously lies.

Predicting That we’re going to enter a phase of hire/fire every year seems both irrational and… negative. : )

We could get the next selection right. And have someone good for 30 years. We may get it wrong again and have to wait 3 years for another chance. No one knows. What we do know is that this choice isn’t working, and it was based on a flawed methodology that many of us called out well before it was implemented. All we have to do is look for models, and we were just routed by one in a similar position. They did The hard thing and are on a better track.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

I live in SC/FL. I do not have season tickets but if I did I would be at every game cheering the team on. Regarding NIL and retrospect the portal, I do not believe in either as a solution for college sports. I truly believe that it will lead to the end of college sports. If you pay a player to play, doesn’t that make a player a professional? Go to the pros if you do not want a college education. Playing in college is not a guarantee to be a pro. I do believe that colleges should pay for insurance on their players in the event of damaging injury.

 

[RedtheGOB]

I live in SC/FL. I do not have season tickets but if I did I would be at every game cheering the team on. Regarding NIL and retrospect the portal, I do not believe in either as a solution for college sports. I truly believe that it will lead to the end of college sports. If you pay a player to play, doesn’t that make a player a professional? Go to the pros if you do not want a college education. Playing in college is not a guarantee to be a pro. I do believe that colleges should pay for insurance on their players in the event of damaging injury.

Wait until I tell you what Melo’s son has been making on NIL in High School and off his Social Media for the last few years.

We are in a reality where teenagers are making millions more than their coach’s.

 

[GHLF]

I live in SC/FL. I do not have season tickets but if I did I would be at every game cheering the team on. Regarding NIL and retrospect the portal, I do not believe in either as a solution for college sports. I truly believe that it will lead to the end of college sports. If you pay a player to play, doesn’t that make a player a professional? Go to the pros if you do not want a college education. Playing in college is not a guarantee to be a pro. I do believe that colleges should pay for insurance on their players in the event of damaging injury.

Appreciate and respect your insight, different time

 

[GHLF]

Or, maybe if there was better coaching, the players that we brought in would have their strengths better utilized and there would be more offensive/defensive cohesiveness.

At this point I believe it's coaching far more than talent. Hard to miss on talent evaluation of an entire transfer class.

Definitely appreciate you as a poster, however completely disagree. I, do not think we were prepared, and we emphatically missed on our top targets except 1, also significant lack of funding, planning and definitely interest. Misses occurred in the portal as well as high school. We are trying to build this program largely by traditional means, it did not work and we had to pay very late because we knew we were in trouble. Tell me? How do we use JC, EL, and the two freshman DF, EM differently defensively and offensively. Give me a scheme to help plug the holes?

 

[bnoro]

Definitely appreciate you as a poster, however completely disagree. I, do not think we were prepared, and we emphatically missed on our top targets except 1, also significant lack of funding, planning and definitely interest. Misses occurred in the portal as well as high school. We are trying to build this program largely by traditional means, it did not work and we had to pay very late because we knew we were in trouble. Tell me? How do we use JC, EL, and the two freshman DF, EM differently defensively and offensively. Give me a scheme to help plug the holes?

I don't think the guys we brought in are that good either. But you could scheme them to be better offensively/defensively than they are. There is no urgency, there is no running the floor, there is no commitment. That is coaching.

 

[tptcuse]

I have a question, looking at our defense last year, what do you think? He committed to man, our metrics were good until significant depletion occurred. Who implemented that last year, what happened this year? Does he forget how to implement man-to-man as well as ZONE principles in such a short period of time, or was it something else? THIS WAS A TRAINWRECK WAITING TO HAPPEN FOR 10 YEARS. This was addressed to Bnoro btw, ty as well

I might not be understanding your post. Our defense was very bad last year too. 2023-24 Syracuse Orange Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

 

[Hopkins16]

He should go now. You don't waste a year of development in college when players are here 2-3 years. If a coach has proven he can't develop guys then get rid.

If Red had 2 horrible years in a row, I would agree with you. Last year was good for a 1st year coach who inherited a roster that he didn't build, guys who saw him as the good cop and an assistant from the year before who may not have treated him respectfully as a coach, malcontents such as Benny (dropped from team mid-season) and Copeland who we later learned was a handful. This year was a total miss on the portal guys and a step backwards. The comparisons to Payne is vastly unfair - The guy deserves another year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Red had 2 horrible years in a row, I would agree with you. Last year was good for a 1st year coach who inherited a roster that he didn't build, guys who saw him as the good cop and an assistant from the year before who may not have treated him respectfully as a coach, malcontents such as Benny (dropped from team mid-season) and Copeland who we later learned was a handful. This year was a total miss on the portal guys and a step backwards. The comparisons to Payne is vastly unfair - The guy deserves another year.

Is that you Paulie?

 

[bnoro]

If Red had 2 horrible years in a row, I would agree with you. Last year was good for a 1st year coach who inherited a roster that he didn't build, guys who saw him as the good cop and an assistant from the year before who may not have treated him respectfully as a coach, malcontents such as Benny (dropped from team mid-season) and Copeland who we later learned was a handful. This year was a total miss on the portal guys and a step backwards. The comparisons to Payne is vastly unfair - The guy deserves another year.

If you can't show year over year growth that's an even bigger indictment. I was a huge defender of his last year and was extremely excited going into this year. I thought the new assistant coach would help us play better defense. I could see what he was going for with the transfer of Lampkin, and hoped that Carlos could be the type of player that could distribute and get open shots for our shooters. I expected Bell, with the bad influences in the locker room gone, to work harder and take a Southerland-esque leap into a better all around player. With JJ playing more off ball as a 2, I expected him to be the Tyus Battle type consistent scorer we needed. With more depth on the roster, I thought we'd be able to play harder on defense, be more aggressive, and run the floor.

We do literally NONE of that. It's inexcusable. The minutes distribution makes no sense. The freshmen are getting Boeheim'd. The transfers are god awful. We did a "green-out" last game.

Is there a single bright spot?

 

[RF2044]

If you can't show year over year growth that's an even bigger indictment. I was a huge defender of his last year and was extremely excited going into this year. I thought the new assistant coach would help us play better defense. I could see what he was going for with the transfer of Lampkin, and hoped that Carlos could be the type of player that could distribute and get open shots for our shooters. I expected Bell, with the bad influences in the locker room gone, to work harder and take a Southerland-esque leap into a better all around player. With JJ playing more off ball as a 2, I expected him to be the Tyus Battle type consistent scorer we needed. With more depth on the roster, I thought we'd be able to play harder on defense, be more aggressive, and run the floor.

We do literally NONE of that. It's inexcusable. The minutes distribution makes no sense. The freshmen are getting Boeheim'd. The transfers are god awful. We did a "green-out" last game.

Is there a single bright spot?

At this point, I'm resigned to our current head coach getting a third year. Not based upon performance / merit -- but, just "because."

And next year, given the roster attrition -- which will be massive -- we'll have to bring in a bunch of new faces, and run it back, doing the same thing and hoping for a different result.

Only next year, the crowds will be smaller, the patience will be thinner, and a lot of the rationalized support will erode if things continue down this path.

 

[orangefog]

If you can't show year over year growth that's an even bigger indictment. I was a huge defender of his last year and was extremely excited going into this year. I thought the new assistant coach would help us play better defense. I could see what he was going for with the transfer of Lampkin, and hoped that Carlos could be the type of player that could distribute and get open shots for our shooters. I expected Bell, with the bad influences in the locker room gone, to work harder and take a Southerland-esque leap into a better all around player. With JJ playing more off ball as a 2, I expected him to be the Tyus Battle type consistent scorer we needed. With more depth on the roster, I thought we'd be able to play harder on defense, be more aggressive, and run the floor.

We do literally NONE of that. It's inexcusable. The minutes distribution makes no sense. The freshmen are getting Boeheim'd. The transfers are god awful. We did a "green-out" last game.

Is there a single bright spot?

Well said.

 

[Hopkins16]

Is that you Paulie?

Walnuts? Yeah.

 

[UpstateSM]

Alternatively, keep up the negative comments and remove the HC and have the recruits that commit to play for him at Syracuse go elsewhere.

Sign me up for that. Exactly what the program who just embarrassed us in our 2/3 empty gym just did.

 

[powdersmack]

You all need to stop with the "20 wins!" BS too, we had 19. Full stop.

 

[baggerbob]

At this point, I'm resigned to our current head coach getting a third year. Not based upon performance / merit -- but, just "because."

And next year, given the roster attrition -- which will be massive -- we'll have to bring in a bunch of new faces, and run it back, doing the same thing and hoping for a different result.

Only next year, the crowds will be smaller, the patience will be thinner, and a lot of the rationalized support will erode if things continue down this path.

If Red comes back next year unless the team starts winning about 23-25 games with no bad loses, the fans will not come back. 22 or less wins and it will continue to go downhill.
It's better to cut your loses now and completely move on from the JB era, and start building something for the future.