Shafer doesn't have the intelligence for this position

[Millhouse]

Actually, by going under center, it forces the LBs to come up and play for the sneak, which opens up other options - sweep, roll out run/pass option, etc. If they don't come up to the line, you run the sneak. If you go pistol, it allows the LBs to play off the line and gives them more time to react to the play.

there are options available in the shotgun that aren't available under center. if you're willing to throw, it makes the qbs life easier. i don't think the shotgun takes as much time as other people do. urban meyer does fine in short yardage with power runs out of the shotgun but maybe he can get away with it

and when you're shotgun all the time and practice it all the time, going under center means more fumbles.

people lose their minds on an incompletion on 4th and short though

 

[dollarbill44]

there are options available in the shotgun that aren't available under center. if you're willing to throw, it makes the qbs life easier. i don't think the shotgun takes as much time as other people do. urban meyer does fine in short yardage with power runs out of the shotgun but maybe he can get away with it

and when you're shotgun all the time and practice it all the time, going under center means more fumbles.

people lose their minds on an incompletion on 4th and short though

I have no problem with a pass call on 4th and short, as long as it's designed properly. I was actually calling for a pass play on the 4th and goal. I wanted Dungey to roll right with a couple of passing options as well as a run. He's kind of perfect for that.

I'd like to see some evidence that shotgun teams fumble more when the QB goes under center. I just don't know about that. But, obviously, if we never practice a QB sneak, it would be stupid to run it. I think the point people are trying to make is that there should at least be a couple of plays under center in the playbook for these types of situations that they would presumably practice. 3rd and 4th down and a yard to go is such a common down and distance, it seems like maybe it would be prudent to have something like that in the bag of tricks. But, this is probably one of those philosophical type arguments that people are on mostly one side or the other and aren't likely to be swayed either way.

 

[storange]

Dungey made that nice quick snap throw TD, we had their D on their heels. Perfect time to end the game. And you know what? If we lost on that decision, I'd be ok with that.

I agree, of course if we failed there would be 20 posters on here complaining what a dumb decision it was.

 

[Millhouse]

I have no problem with a pass call on 4th and short, as long as it's designed properly. I was actually calling for a pass play on the 4th and goal. I wanted Dungey to roll right with a couple of passing options as well as a run. He's kind of perfect for that.

I'd like to see some evidence that shotgun teams fumble more when the QB goes under center. I just don't know about that. But, obviously, if we never practice a QB sneak, it would be stupid to run it. I think the point people are trying to make is that there should at least be a couple of plays under center in the playbook for these types of situations that they would presumably practice. 3rd and 4th down and a yard to go is such a common down and distance, it seems like maybe it would be prudent to have something like that in the bag of tricks. But, this is probably one of those philosophical type arguments that people are on mostly one side or the other and aren't likely to be swayed either way.

there isn't evidence because teams do what they practice. it just makes sense that the more you practice under center, the better you will be at not fumbling from under center.

 

[Millhouse]

I agree, of course if we failed there would be 20 posters on here complaining what a dumb decision it was.

so what? this doesn't stop coaches from doing all kinds of stupid things where the criticism by 20 posters is obviously justified

 

[storange]

so what? this doesn't stop coaches from doing all kinds of stupid things where the criticism by 20 posters is obviously justified

I'm not sure there is an argument here, Shafer needed to go against convention in this spot , he didn't. If they don't win he is going to take crap either way. I would have had Dungy rolling out and take my chances with that.

 

[dollarbill44]

there isn't evidence because teams do what they practice.

Presumably shotgun teams run the victory formation from under center. How many times do they fumble?

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not sure there is an argument here, Shafer needed to go against convention in this spot , he didn't.

coaches maximize the amount of time they have any chance. they don't maximize their chances.

 

[Millhouse]

Presumably shotgun teams run the victory formation from under center. How many times do they fumble?

not much because most defenses allow them to snap the ball unpressured

 

[K Otto XLIV]

there are options available in the shotgun that aren't available under center. if you're willing to throw, it makes the qbs life easier. i don't think the shotgun takes as much time as other people do. urban meyer does fine in short yardage with power runs out of the shotgun but maybe he can get away with it

and when you're shotgun all the time and practice it all the time, going under center means more fumbles.

people lose their minds on an incompletion on 4th and short though

If we had Hunt it makes more sense because of his size. Still though you can put out 5 WRs and you will face a 5-2 D inside the 5 yard line. You are at a major disadvantage running the ball. If we want to be pass first inside the 5 by all means stay in your base O. But if you are going to run you need another blocker to offset what the D is doing. Put a fullback or even an OL in there to lead the way.

 

[Millhouse]

If we had Hunt it makes more sense because of his size. Still though you can put out 5 WRs and you will face a 5-2 D inside the 5 yard line. You are at a major disadvantage running the ball. If we want to be pass first inside the 5 by all means stay in your base O. But if you are going to run you need another blocker to offset what the D is doing. Put a fullback or even an OL in there to lead the way.

don't do anything where you're at a major disadvantage, wherever you are on the field. if a defense puts you at a major disadvantage to run, then throw. vice versa. base offense like you mentioned

 

[NineOneSeven]

If we had Hunt it makes more sense because of his size. Still though you can put out 5 WRs and you will face a 5-2 D inside the 5 yard line. You are at a major disadvantage running the ball. If we want to be pass first inside the 5 by all means stay in your base O. But if you are going to run you need another blocker to offset what the D is doing. Put a fullback or even an OL in there to lead the way.

Sounds like I'll have a wideout open then.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Sounds like I'll have a wideout open then.

It is still harder to throw because of the limited space. Teams cannot get beat deep. If they have 4 covering 5 they would be in a zone. The QB then needs time to read the D and make the correct pass knowing that 7 guys are coming after him. They don't have to honor the run since it is an empty backfield.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It is still harder to throw because of the limited space. Teams cannot get beat deep. If they have 4 covering 5 they would be in a zone. The QB then needs time to read the D and make the correct pass knowing that 7 guys are coming after him. They don't have to honor the run since it is an empty backfield.

Fair. All I know is I cannot stand goal line formations most of the time

 

[dollarbill44]

It is still harder to throw because of the limited space. Teams cannot get beat deep. If they have 4 covering 5 they would be in a zone. The QB then needs time to read the D and make the correct pass knowing that 7 guys are coming after him. They don't have to honor the run since it is an empty backfield.

I wouldn't mind seeing Custis in there in that situation for a corner fade. Or, whip it out wide to Ish and let him beat one man to the goal line. There are ways to limit the risk of the QB making the wrong read. Get the ball quickly to a guy in space out wide and turn it into a one on one play. If the D makes a nice play, tip your cap, but at least you've got about even odds.

I'm of the opinion that in college ball, the less time you need for your goal line play, the better your chances at success. Bang, bang, quick plays with very little thinking.