should the NCAA sanction penn state???.

[Orangepace]

Why are you yelling at me? I was merely asking for clarification from the person who posted that state funding should be cut off from PSU.

Not intentionally yelling at you... just trying to make the point to everyone... this isn't an athletics issue... Did this somehow give a competitive advantage to Joepa and PSU.. if so, it's an athletics issue, but I think everyone clammoring for death penalty etc is off base because this isn't an athletics issue.. Apologies for yelling.. just wanted to make a point.

 

[dollarbill44]

Also, hasn't the State already threatened to pull the funding? You need to get caught up bud.

I don't care what the politicians have threatened - that's all BS posturing anyway. How do you pull state funding from the largest employer in the state, especially in this economy? Laying off hundreds of staff and professors (because that is how funding cuts work), how does that punish the people responsible for what happened?

 

[PhatOrange]

To say that it isn't an NCAA issue is incorrect, I believe. The NCAA is a member institution. PSU does not have to belong to the NCAA, nor does the NCAA have to allow PSU to be a member. I would be surprised if there isn't some clause in the bylaws that allows for punishment in this case.

You make a valid point about punishing criminal activity and where to draw the line. I agree that the NCAA can't get involved in every criminal act-can you imagine how large the investigative arm of the NCAA would be in that scenario? But, maybe there should be some repercussions for programs that have an inordinate amount of criminal activity within it's athletics department.

What would the NCAA infraction be? Lack of Institutional Control? Lack of controlling a child molester?

Even if there was a coverup I don't actually see that what happened at Penn State broke any NCAA rules.

 

[dollarbill44]

It also is incorrect to say that this has nothing to do with the athletic program. Do you really believe there would have been this sort of cover up had it happened within the physics department instead of the football program?

Not intentionally yelling at you... just trying to make the point to everyone... this isn't an athletics issue... Did this somehow give a competitive advantage to Joepa and PSU.. if so, it's an athletics issue, but I think everyone clammoring for death penalty etc is off base because this isn't an athletics issue.. Apologies for yelling.. just wanted to make a point.

No problem. I'm more curious about the PSU issues than emotionally invested. To me, there are a lot of interesting legal and moral issues in this case. Sure, there are a lot of absurd things being said, as is usually the case where there are emotional issues like this. There are also a lot of gray areas that should keep anyone from making absolute claims about what direction this road will take.

 

[Crusty]

No the NCAA should not punish Penn State because it's not an NCAA issue. It's a criminal issue involving the judicial system, not the NCAA.

If the NCAA does step in then it opens pandora's box. They'd have to punish every single crminal transgression. DWI's, assaults, rapes, shootings, stabbings, disorderly conducts, everything.

It is a failure of institutional control over the athletic program and that is an NCAA violation. That is why SMU got the death penalty. Certainly criminal behavior is a lack of institutional control.

 

[dollarbill44]

What would the NCAA infraction be? Lack of Institutional Control? Lack of controlling a child molester?

Even if there was a coverup I don't actually see that what happened at Penn State broke any NCAA rules.

This seems to be the catch-all category the NCAA uses, so I would imagine that is where they would have the most leeway for sanctions. I don't pretend to be an expert on the NCAA rules - hell, every school has full-time staff devoted to that and even they don't always understand. I just have to believe that if the NCAA wants to act, there is something in the bylaws that will allow them to do so in some capacity.

 

[Mistakebythelake90]

A well liked and renowned Newhouse professor kills a man. Chancellor Cantor and the Dean of Newhouse act to cover up the crime. Would you take away Newhouse's accreditation, funding, and rankings because of this?

 

[NKR1978]

A well liked and renowned Newhouse professor kills a man. Chancellor Cantor and the Dean of Newhouse act to cover up the crime. Would you take away Newhouse's accreditation, funding, and rankings because of this?

After they covered it up, did the Newhouse professor continue to use Newhouse facilities to rape children/kill other people?

 

[Orangepace]

It is a failure of institutional control over the athletic program and that is an NCAA violation. That is why SMU got the death penalty. Certainly criminal behavior is a lack of institutional control.

why failure over athletic program?

 

[PhatOrange]

It is a failure of institutional control over the athletic program and that is an NCAA violation. That is why SMU got the death penalty. Certainly criminal behavior is a lack of institutional control.

Not true. SMU got the death penalty for paying players and recruits and it went all the way to the top of the food chain. There was a so called 'slush fund' for the payments.

 

[dollarbill44]

why failure over athletic program?

One could argue that because the perpetrator was a long-standing senior coach using athletic department facilities for some of the crimes and various members of the athletics department (including the head coach) being aware of things going on and failed to act, allowing the illegal activities to continue.

I'm not saying the NCAA should or shouldn't do anything, just that valid arguments can be made for either course of action. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision.

 

[bubba1917]

One could argue that because the perpetrator was a long-standing senior coach using athletic department facilities for some of the crimes and various members of the athletics department (including the head coach) being aware of things going on and failed to act, allowing the illegal activities to continue.

I'm not saying the NCAA should or shouldn't do anything, just that valid arguments can be made for either course of action. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision.

In the last two days I read a letter from the NCAA to PSU which included sections of the by-laws that cover the situation and stated that an investigation would occur as soon as it would not interfere with criminal investigations. I'm to lazy to search the net for the letter but it appeared legitimate.

 

[PhatOrange]

One could argue that because the perpetrator was a long-standing senior coach using athletic department facilities for some of the crimes and various members of the athletics department (including the head coach) being aware of things going on and failed to act, allowing the illegal activities to continue.

I'm not saying the NCAA should or shouldn't do anything, just that valid arguments can be made for either course of action. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision.

I just don't see that Penn State has broken any NCAA athletic rule. Certianly nothing that has furthered the advancement of the football program or athletic department and given them an unfair competitive advantage.

There are athletic programs who's players have been arrested dozens of times and the NCAA has never stepped in and said to clean it up.

 

[Orangepace]

One could argue that because the perpetrator was a long-standing senior coach using athletic department facilities for some of the crimes and various members of the athletics department (including the head coach) being aware of things going on and failed to act, allowing the illegal activities to continue.

I'm not saying the NCAA should or shouldn't do anything, just that valid arguments can be made for either course of action. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision.

You and me both.. Not an easy position to be in.

 

[Orangepace]

I just don't see that Penn State hasn't broken any NCAA athletic rule. Certianly nothing that has furthered the advancement of the football program or athletic department and given them an unfair competitive advantage.

There are athletic programs who's players have been arrested dozens of times and the NCAA has never stepped in and said to clean it up.

You stated my point in better form..

 

[dollarbill44]

I just don't see that Penn State hasn't broken any NCAA athletic rule. Certianly nothing that has furthered the advancement of the football program or athletic department and given them an unfair competitive advantage.

There are athletic programs who's players have been arrested dozens of times and the NCAA has never stepped in and said to clean it up.

I think the NCAA has rules that go beyond athletic competition. All of the professional sports leagues in the U.S. do as well. They have a vested interest in maintaining the reputation of the association - at least when it's convenient for them.

 

[tipphill]

The NCAA must make an example of PSU so as to discourage any university from putting a coach or team above all else.

USC, Alabama, and Michigan excluded, of course...

and the ever untouchable notre dame

 

[bubba1917]

You stated my point in better form..

Found the information at www.psu/ur/2011/NCAA.pdf. Like it or not the NCAA is involved.

 

[tipphill]

Again.. PEDs would have a direct impact on the sports program itself... JS being a sick had no impact on the sports programs.. this is a moral and ethical issue and is in no way sports related other than it was a former coach... If this was just the University President, same situation, so I actually vehemently disagree that any sactions to the sports program would be appropriate.

why did ohio state get sanctions for selling stuff for tatoos?because tressel knew???and did nothing?what did joepa know and for how many years.the IMPACT on the program lies in the fact that they knew about all this and did nothing IN ORDER to PROTECT THE PROGRAM in a morally unacceptable and illegal manor. from the highest level at the university.that is totally gross misconduct and LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL. a FELONY coverup that directly involves the HEAD FOOTBALL COACH AND MAYBE OTHER COACHES.THESE FOLKS MAKE NIXON LOOK LIKE A BUSH LEAGER(SP).(AND I LIKED NIXON)i believe that when this done there are folks at the state govt level that were aware of this and the missing da knew something as well

 

[baggerbob]

As bad as what happened at Penn St shutting down the program is not the answer, but I do have an idea that should be followed. The person who allowed this to happen on his watch, is the one to be punished. Joe wanted the all time winning record, Bobby Bowden had to forfeit games for the academic problems at Florida St, and Joe was able to pass him, so take away all games from the record books won by Joe after 2001. That way you have a just punishment for the person, who allowed this to continue, and you send a message to all schools ,that moral integrity comes before wins and losses.

 

[All4SU]

I have to go with Phat on this one. I don't see this as NCAA jurisdiction.

 

[All4SU]

why did ohio state get sanctions for selling stuff for tatoos?because tressel knew???

I would say it was because the players were profiting off of it. Tressel's knowledge of same allowed the players to continue to profit.

 

[JD]

As bad as what happened at Penn St shutting down the program is not the answer, but I do have an idea that should be followed. The person who allowed this to happen on his watch, is the one to be punished. Joe wanted the all time winning record, Bobby Bowden had to forfeit games for the academic problems at Florida St, and Joe was able to pass him, so take away all games from the record books won by Joe after 2001. That way you have a just punishment for the person, who allowed this to continue, and you send a message to all schools ,that moral integrity comes before wins and losses.

How would you justify taking away wins Sandusky was not part of the staff, there was no benefit gained. BTW moral integrity does not mean when it comes to wins and loses. A coach never got hired because of his moral principles.

 

[sutomcat]

I have to go with Phat on this one. I don't see this as NCAA jurisdiction.

I agree. Unless they broke NCAA rules in the course of all the awful things that were done, the NCAA should not be involved.

 

[rrlbees]

No the NCAA should not punish Penn State because it's not an NCAA issue. It's a criminal issue involving the judicial system, not the NCAA.

If the NCAA does step in then it opens pandora's box. They'd have to punish every single crminal transgression. DWI's, assaults, rapes, shootings, stabbings, disorderly conducts, everything.

I don't agree with that opinion at all.

Yes, it is very much a criminal case and individuals will be punished. But it isn't a coach committing DWI, or an assault, or rape, or molestation alone. Yes, Sandusky committed the crimes but when people in power such as the head coach, the AD, the President, the security official, etc, stepped in and chose not to contact the proper authorities, they very much made the school and the athletic department very much part of this whole thing. They chose to cover up and turn a blind eye to a systemic issue and deal with it on their own (which they did poorly). This is not a single coach alone committing a crime, it is an institution that chose to be part of the whole sordid thing. Sure, if Coach ABC, gets a DWI or attacks someone, it isn't the schools fault, but this is something totally different. It makes PedSt the university and the athletic department culpable. The NCAA manual discusses moral and ethics and in my opinion, this can very easily fall under that. The institution very much deserves not only individual criminal prosecutions but also NCAA penalties. The crimes PedSt committed aren't far less than what Sandusky committed. He did the shooting, they drove the get away car and then gave him an alibi.