Shrader doesn't throw well enough to beat very good teams

[money3189]

Well, in that type of play, if you throw forwards it means the player is facing the wrong way or the ball hits him in the back. Pitching backwards on an option play isn't a negative if done correctly and in the right situation.

The conveniency to talk about this after we've seen the results. Not one person would be bringing this play up if it had normal results. Most plays are not executed perfectly.

 

[MikeSU02]

IF clemson defenders weren't right there LQA catches it, and needs to catch it either way. That said GS didn't help with what would not be described as a text book pitch.

This is the other thing. We ran a similar pitch later in the game and Clemson ate our lunch on it again.

We don't have the personnel to make that play work from a blocking need.

 

[sufandu]

The conveniency to talk about this after we've seen the results. Not one person would be bringing this play up if it had normal results. Most plays are not executed perfectly.

And we've run it well a number of times so far this year. It's been a nice added wrinkle.

 

[sufandu]

Leaving the ball on the ground for someone to pick up and run with isn't negative if done correctly and in the right situation
The risk reward sucks which is why people started handing off when the read option took over and when the jet sweep took off

Yes, and as defenses have addapted to those there has been a reappearance of the option pitch. It requires different things that defenses have to prepare for.

And you don't know that the risk/reward was THE reason teams started using it. Coaches saw something on film and figured out a way to exploit it. We're not the only team that has started using the traditional option play again.

 

[Millhouse]

Yes, and as defenses have addapted to those there has been a reappearance of the option pitch. It requires different things that defenses have to prepare for.

And you don't know that the risk/reward was THE reason teams started using it. Coaches saw something on film and figured out a way to exploit it. We're not the only team that has started using the traditional option play again.

I agree that the risk/reward often isn't the reason coaches do stuff. It doesn't matter what the downside risk is because they will just insist really hard that they don't screw it up or else

 

[money3189]

Leaving the ball on the ground for someone to pick up and run with isn't negative if done correctly and in the right situation
The risk reward sucks which is why people started handing off when the read option took over and when the jet sweep took off

There's risk in any exchange. Read options involves understanding the mesh, making the right read to pull or give it. Shotgun is risky. Everyone runs it. I was at a 12 U game yesterday. The QB didnt go under center not 1 time.

 

[Millhouse]

There's risk in any exchange. Read options involves understanding the mesh, making the right read to pull or give it. Shotgun is risky. Everyone runs it. I was at a 12 U game yesterday. The QB didnt go under center not 1 time.

Treating all non zero risks the same is not smart

 

[Tony DeFranco]

If everyone on the team was as good as Shrader is at their position we would be the 1 seed in the playoffs - he is an excellent college QB and we can’t expect much better

 

[money3189]

Treating all non zero risks the same is not smart

Please read. I said there is risks in any exchange. I didn’t say they are all the same level of risk.

It’s a simple pitch/flip action. Why do you think a play that has been used from youth to the pro’s the last 100 years is risky?

 

[BillSU]

This.

The explaining away of GSs impact on the game's outcome, and the excuses for the bad pitch are wild.

It was a terrible pitch, full stop.

It was a terrible interception, full stop. Hell, the deep read was open, and the read he made was double-covered. It was the wrong read. Yes, easy to arm-chair this..

These can be true, and GS can still be our best option.

Clemson did the one main thing they needed to do to win and that was take GS out of it.

Its hard to imagine the negative impact that has on the Ds motivation when GS coughed it up like that, 3 Xs.

And, I agree, I don't blame the 1st fumble on him. But, in real time, I was wishing he went down earlier and didn't try for that extra yard or two. Not against that defense.

Plenty of blame to go around, but there is a path to victory without those turnovers, or just 1 instead of 3, and there is no path to victory with the 3 TOs.

And I do feel like he was fogged up from the initial hit. Who wouldn't be?

Does this view of Shrader taking a brutal hit answer your questions of why he was off the entire game?

 

[swish7]

Does this view of Shrader taking a brutal hit answer your questions of why he was off the entire game?
View attachment 231849

You think I didn't see the game?
You think I didn't see that moment?
Brutal hit; thankfully not on the temple.

What do you want everyone to do? Stop commenting about his performance?

 

[PhatOrange]

Does this view of Shrader taking a brutal hit answer your questions of why he was off the entire game?
View attachment 231849

I don’t buy it. Shrader popped right up after the hit. He was fine.

 

[swish7]

Out of curiosity how many people had Clemson penciled in as a win at the start of the season? Maybe one or two of you? I get the disappointment and yeah we all wish things had gone a certain way but I am pretty sure if I had polled the board if they would be happy with a 4 and 1 start, that we would have signed up for that. Season is not over, still lots of good football left and who knows, maybe surprisingly we show our A game at UNC next and get back on track.

Respectfully, I don't get the line of thinking. Just because a season record matches preseason expectations, does not disqualify an opinion about how a game played out from being shared.

Everyone chimed in for the blowouts and the good showing against Purdue, even though many might have predicted 4-0 or 3-1 by that point.

The Clemson gamed played out in one of the most commentable and traumatic manners, we shot ourselves in the foot. We convincingly lost an otherwise winnable game.

It hurts. People are gonna comment about it.

 

[PhatOrange]

The scramble on the targeting play, Shrader has a WR wide open in front of him and doesn’t throw the ball.

These frames show Shrader avoiding the rush and then takes off. You can’t miss the WR and there’s no way Shrader doesn’t see him either.

 

[Cusefan69]

Respectfully, I don't get the line of thinking. Just because a season record matches preseason expectations, does not disqualify an opinion about how a game played out from being shared.

Everyone chimed in for the blowouts and the good showing against Purdue, even though many might have predicted 4-0 or 3-1 by that point.

The Clemson gamed played out in one of the most commentable and traumatic manners, we shot ourselves in the foot. We convincingly lost an otherwise winnable game.

It hurts. People are gonna comment about it.

I will briefly try and explain. First I included that I get the disappointment. Everyone was disappointed with outcome, calls, play, refs. I am a fan posting on a fan board, so I get the pain. That said, let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water though. The season is not over. While a few fans had this as a win most did not at the start. Thats fine. We had a bad game and we can’t afford that against a Clemson but maybe next game we play our A game for the year and surprise some people. UNC does not have Clemsons D. There are plenty of wins left on our schedule so what I am doing with my prior comment is looking ahead. Shake off the loss and move on.
Also there is no problem in talking about it once…..twice……five times. At some point the fan board howling at the moon over the exact same complaining comes a bit across as yeah we get it, move on. Beating dead horses here. (Not saying you are Swish, just a comment in general). Just like you don’t get the line of thinking as you said above, I don’t get saying the same complaint over and over and over again. It’s cool though man. We don’t have to agree on everything. We differ on this and that’s fine but thats what I was thinking. (Ok maybe this was not so brief).

 

[upperdeck]

He was under tremendous pressure today - applied by some great athletes.

His receivers couldn't get separation.

His TD throw to Laquint Allen was really good.

I'm okay with his ceiling,

Some of the separation issues where not throwing to the wide open guys enough..

 

[Cuseregular]

The scramble on the targeting play, Shrader has a WR wide open in front of him and doesn’t throw the ball.

These frames show Shrader avoiding the rush and then takes off. You can’t miss the WR and there’s no way Shrader doesn’t see him either.


View attachment 231858
View attachment 231859
View attachment 231860

With the defender right in his face He’s simply not in a position to throw the ball, and more so after eluding him starting to scramble and run upfield. When this occurs you’re taught and you know it’s VERY likely a lineman in the process of trying to block downfield so your best bet tuck it and run it in The process avoiding the inevitable penalty.

There are many other better examples of him missing some open receivers down the field, this is not one of them.

 

[upperdeck]

like most QBs much better when he has time to make the throws he wants and the reads he needs.. Speed him up he will want to run first.

 

[MikeSU02]

The scramble on the targeting play, Shrader has a WR wide open in front of him and doesn’t throw the ball.

These frames show Shrader avoiding the rush and then takes off. You can’t miss the WR and there’s no way Shrader doesn’t see him either.


View attachment 231858
View attachment 231859
View attachment 231860

Every frame you show is him dealing with the defender then ask why he didn’t drop a dime at an awkward off platform throw?

Give me a break.

 

[MikeSU02]

With the defender right in his face He’s simply not in a position to throw the ball, and more so after eluding him starting to scramble and run upfield. When this occurs you’re taught and you know it’s VERY likely a lineman in the process of trying to block downfield so your best bet tuck it and run it in The process avoiding the inevitable penalty.

There are many other better examples of him missing some open receivers down the field, this is not one of them.

Not. Even. Close. To one of them.

Good lord.

 

[PhatOrange]

With the defender right in his face He’s simply not in a position to throw the ball, and more so after eluding him starting to scramble and run upfield. When this occurs you’re taught and you know it’s VERY likely a lineman in the process of trying to block downfield so your best bet tuck it and run it in The process avoiding the inevitable penalty.

There are many other better examples of him missing some open receivers down the field, this is not one of them.

We saw this live, so I don’t think it’s as bad as what you described. But you think he’s thinking I have to run because there might be a lineman downfield?

It is bang bang play and you’re not wrong, but I see quarterbacks all the time elude the defender and just throw a little dunk pass to a guy cutting across the middle. It’s not a big thing to do this. Most kids learn it in the backyard. Well, they used to anyways when backyard football was still a thing.

 

[Newhouser]

We saw this live, so I don’t think it’s as bad as what you described. But you think he’s thinking I have to run because there might be a lineman downfield?

It is bang bang play and you’re not wrong, but I see quarterbacks all the time elude the defender and just throw a little dunk pass to a guy cutting across the middle. It’s not a big thing to do this. Most kids learn it in the backyard. Well, they used to anyways when backyard football was still a thing.

Kid from Clemson did it a couple of times Saturday. GS is a good player and a good QB. He is a better runner than thrower but that works for us because our O-Line will always be second tier. That said the thought some have expressed that we can never get a better QB is crazy to me. Almost crazier than we can't find a coach better than Dino. We need to stop settling for good (GS) and mediocre (Dino). The clock is ticking on our place at the main table.

 

[BillSU]

You think I didn't see the game?
You think I didn't see that moment?
Brutal hit; thankfully not on the temple.

What do you want everyone to do? Stop commenting about his performance?

Easy swish7, I posted the photo so those who may not have seen how Garrett was hit could.

Talk about it all you want to.