Shrader doesn't throw well enough to beat very good teams

[HRE Otto IV]

It was back and to the left

But wouldn't that indicate it was a poor angle by Allen? It was a pitch and not a pass. Had it been in front then it is an incomplete pass.

 

[JKinPhilly]

But wouldn't that indicate it was a poor angle by Allen? It was a pitch and not a pass. Had it been in front then it is an incomplete pass.

it was a terrible pitch. His INT was terrible to not even see the LB just sitting there. He should have had another ad well but has hands like our WRs. I'll give him a pass on the fumble where he got blown up - most people wouldn't hold onto the ball then.

Good news is I still think GS is good enough for us to win 8 games. That's not bad

 

[HRE Otto IV]

it was a terrible pitch. His INT was terrible to not even see the LB just sitting there. He should have had another ad well but has hands likeThat's not bad our WRs. I'll give him a pass on the fumble where he got blown up - most people wouldn't hold onto the ball them.

Good news is I still think GS is good enough for us to win 8 games.

Again what was bad about the pitch itself? Like I said if it were perfectly timed with where Allen was, it would have been a forward pass.

 

[KaiserUEO]

the pitch sucked. as mentioned, it was behind and to his left.

its a pitch, not a 50 yard throw.

he has to make that easy.

8th year QBs dont show up this small this often in their careers.

 

[SmilinBob]

That is the rule, where you start. I think a dive forward might be safer. You see defenders come over the top all the time on slides. Plus a dive ends where you land.

That's my point HRE, they marked it way before he even started his slide.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This thread is wild.

Our WRs are not good enough right now. End of story.

Our pass blocking was atrocious. Our OL isn’t good enough.

And people here think Shrader is the issue? Ya - he’s not Caleb Williams, but we’ve known that.

Literally, to compete at a high level in the ACC, none of the WRs we have would be playing outside of spot duty.

Our OL isn’t good enough either.

Our TEs are a transfer QB turned TE and Mang. And while Villari had two catches that were good, if we want to be real, we would have at least two TEs that are better than both those guys.

Yeah, Gadsden was a blow, but Gadsden and Jones (and to some extent, Pena) is a lot for a unit to overcome. TE is not a strong unit to begin with. The OL has potential but it's been a position jumble there.

I do think it's fair to acknowledge that Shrader wasn't sharp yesterday.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah, Gadsden was a blow, but Gadsden and Jones (and to some extent, Pena) is a lot for a unit to overcome. TE is not a strong unit to begin with. The OL has potential but it's been a position jumble there.

I do think it's fair to acknowledge that Shrader wasn't sharp yesterday.

I don’t agree re Pena. I don’t think he’s a good WR at all. Obviously would rather have him (or you, even) instead of Adams back there. He gives me the scaries every time he’s fielding anything.

IJ is fine. Not a game-changer but at least a veteran.

At some point, the OL has to be serviceable across the line. It’s really frustrating that we’re on quicksand still.

Got to be good to go for the final five games of the season. Winnable games. Have to be ready.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think as of right now Dungey is the better QB and had the better career here. There are also many other factors that go into a team's record. But if Shrader is able to go 6-2 the rest of the way, he will have a minimally better career winning percentage than Dungey as a starter.

VA Tech, BC, Pitt, GA Tech, Wake all look pretty bad this year. It is definitely possible that we win all of those. If we do and also beat either UNC or win our Bowl game, you can argue that Shrader and Dungey are basically the same.

The potential is there, can Shrader stay healthy and achieve it?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don’t agree re Pena. I don’t think he’s a good WR at all. Obviously would rather have him (or you, even) instead of Adams back there. He gives me the scaries every time he’s fielding anything.

IJ is fine. Not a game-changer but at least a veteran.

At some point, the OL has to be serviceable across the line. It’s really frustrating that we’re on quicksand still.

Got to be good to go for the final five games of the season. Winnable games. Have to be ready.

Pena's role as a WR is as an extended RB. Without him that role is empty. It is something the D has to be aware of.

 

[tbonezone]

I'm really surprised you don't think it's a bad pitch. It definitely looked wrong to me

a bad pitch but catchable. it hit him in both hands. ergo...catchable.

 

[money3189]

But wouldn't that indicate it was a poor angle by Allen? It was a pitch and not a pass. Had it been in front then it is an incomplete pass.

Exactly. You cant throw forward passes when lineman are egaged in blocks passed the LOS. LaQuint got a little too antsy

 

[money3189]

the pitch sucked. as mentioned, it was behind and to his left.

its a pitch, not a 50 yard throw.

he has to make that easy.

8th year QBs dont show up this small this often in their careers.

A pitch is supposed to be behind the QB

 

[swish7]

it was a terrible pitch. His INT was terrible to not even see the LB just sitting there. He should have had another ad well but has hands like our WRs. I'll give him a pass on the fumble where he got blown up - most people wouldn't hold onto the ball then.

Good news is I still think GS is good enough for us to win 8 games. That's not bad

This.

The explaining away of GSs impact on the game's outcome, and the excuses for the bad pitch are wild.

It was a terrible pitch, full stop.

It was a terrible interception, full stop. Hell, the deep read was open, and the read he made was double-covered. It was the wrong read. Yes, easy to arm-chair this..

These can be true, and GS can still be our best option.

Clemson did the one main thing they needed to do to win and that was take GS out of it.

Its hard to imagine the negative impact that has on the Ds motivation when GS coughed it up like that, 3 Xs.

And, I agree, I don't blame the 1st fumble on him. But, in real time, I was wishing he went down earlier and didn't try for that extra yard or two. Not against that defense.

Plenty of blame to go around, but there is a path to victory without those turnovers, or just 1 instead of 3, and there is no path to victory with the 3 TOs.

And I do feel like he was fogged up from the initial hit. Who wouldn't be?

 

[NYCCuse826]

I think we need to let him freelance. Run as much as he wants. At this point our receivers will not win games for us

The wide outs weren't the problem yesterday. If he was putting the ball in their chest and they dropped it, you could point fingers at them.

 

[MikeSU02]

Pena's role as a WR is as an extended RB. Without him that role is empty. It is something the D has to be aware of.

Eh. You mean like a Dabo Samuel role? I disagree. He’s a return guy, that’s it. Get in in north / south situations with space, sure.

I don’t think he has any feel at RB or WR whatsoever and hasn’t shown it at all.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Eh. You mean like a Dabo Samuel role? I disagree. He’s a return guy, that’s it. Get in in north / south situations with space, sure.

I don’t think he has any feel at RB or WR whatsoever and hasn’t shown it at all.

I mean his role is 3-5 yard gains in the flat, extended runs. He makes the D have to account for the whole field.

 

[KaiserUEO]

A pitch is supposed to be behind the QB

????

but not behind the RB or that would be a likely turnover.

would you like our TE/QB to have more turnovers??

im sure he can arrange it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

With Shrader as a starter we haven't lost to a team that finished outside the Top 65 of the Sagarin, and only 2 teams outside the Top 35. We have zero home losses outside of the Top 20. We only have two Top 50 Ws, although one is Top 25 and the other is Top 20. Our best road W prior to this season is outside the Top 75, although Purdue could end up higher than Top 75 this year.

I do not think Purdue is a good team this year. Yet IMO they are likely the 4th best team on our schedule. It is very possible that we end up with 9 games outside the Top 75. It seems pretty certain that we will have 9 outside of the Top 60.

For SU to end up at 7-5 means we will have two of our worst three losses with Shrader as a starting QB. IMO we are more likely to lose 0.0 of those games than to lose 2.

Based on the above it would be a big upset for SU to beat UNC or FSU. It would be an even bigger upset to lose to BC or Wake. The other 3 games would all be upsets. So how do we not go at least 2-1 in those games?

 

[money3189]

????

but not behind the RB or that would be a likely turnover.

would you like our TE/QB to have more turnovers??

im sure he can arrange it.

LaQuint’s alignment or foot work needs to be slightly behind the QB or it’s an illegal play (meaning a forward pass). It’s football 101. Laquint went slightly forward and had his eyes on #9 running down hill at him.

Not sure what you are talking about with your other comments

 

[KaiserUEO]

LaQuint’s alignment or foot work needs to be slightly behind the QB or it’s an illegal play (meaning a forward pass). It’s football 101. Laquint went slightly forward and had his eyes on #9 running down hill at him.

Not sure what you are talking about with your other comments

It was a bad pitch that was behind him and to the left.

My 8-13 year old RBs and QBs understand what that means.

If people here don’t, I can’t help.

 

[sufandu]

I also think too... these opening drives where he's running the ball don't do him any favors.

He seems to get in to better rhythm when he gets some early throws in.

Was the play where he got popped and fumbled a called run? I forget, but I think it was a called pass that he decided to run on. It was nice that we came out with Allen on a couple good running plays. I thought that was intended to take some pressure off of Shrader, and before the fumble we were looking comfortable. Sometimes getting in a rhythm isn't just play calling but the defense you're playing. Unsurprisingly, guys were having trouble getting open against a really good defense and they were applying pressure on Shrader.

 

[baggerbob]

This.

The explaining away of GSs impact on the game's outcome, and the excuses for the bad pitch are wild.

It was a terrible pitch, full stop.

It was a terrible interception, full stop. Hell, the deep read was open, and the read he made was double-covered. It was the wrong read. Yes, easy to arm-chair this..

These can be true, and GS can still be our best option.

Clemson did the one main thing they needed to do to win and that was take GS out of it.

Its hard to imagine the negative impact that has on the Ds motivation when GS coughed it up like that, 3 Xs.

And, I agree, I don't blame the 1st fumble on him. But, in real time, I was wishing he went down earlier and didn't try for that extra yard or two. Not against that defense.

Plenty of blame to go around, but there is a path to victory without those turnovers, or just 1 instead of 3, and there is no path to victory with the 3 TOs.

And I do feel like he was fogged up from the initial hit. Who wouldn't be?

You give Garrett, Ish, Phillips, Neal, and Strickland and this a much better team.

 

[MikeSU02]

LaQuint’s alignment or foot work needs to be slightly behind the QB or it’s an illegal play (meaning a forward pass). It’s football 101. Laquint went slightly forward and had his eyes on #9 running down hill at him.

Not sure what you are talking about with your other comments

It wasn’t perfect but it hit him in the hands.

If I dropped that ball in high school I would have got crap from the coaches and would have been pissed at myself.

Was it ideal? No. Did his hands touch the ball? Yes. Does that mean he should have secured it? Absolutely.

A pitch like that doesn’t mean you fumble, it means you aren’t getting as many yards up field bc you’re not catching it in perfect stride.

LQA 100% saw the defenders ready to eat his lunch and lost concentration.

Bad pitch by Shrader. No doubt. But Allen has to pull that in.

 

[storange]

It wasn’t perfect but it hit him in the hands.

If I dropped that ball in high school I would have got crap from the coaches and would have been pissed at myself.

Was it ideal? No. Did his hands touch the ball? Yes. Does that mean he should have secured it? Absolutely.

A pitch like that doesn’t mean you fumble, it means you aren’t getting as many yards up field bc you’re not catching it in perfect stride.

LQA 100% saw the defenders ready to eat his lunch and lost concentration.

Bad pitch by Shrader. No doubt. But Allen has to pull that in.

Yep

 

[money3189]

It wasn’t perfect but it hit him in the hands.

If I dropped that ball in high school I would have got crap from the coaches and would have been pissed at myself.

Was it ideal? No. Did his hands touch the ball? Yes. Does that mean he should have secured it? Absolutely.

A pitch like that doesn’t mean you fumble, it means you aren’t getting as many yards up field bc you’re not catching it in perfect stride.

LQA 100% saw the defenders ready to eat his lunch and lost concentration.

Bad pitch by Shrader. No doubt. But Allen has to pull that in.

I wouldn’t event characterize it as a bad pitch. It just wasn’t perfect. No one would be saying “wow what a bad pitch” if he had not dropped it.