SIAP- Carmelo not getting along

[Melancer46]

Problem is, are those young pieces any good?

The plan you have in place looks good to be close or just in the playoffs, but extremely far away from a title. By the time enough pieces are put together Melo is at the twilight at his career.

The Knicks are 4 years away at least.

Yeah... I don't see Hardaway, Shumpert, Early or Larkin ever being more than alright bench players.

Regarding the Rondo to NY possibility, I just don't see it. Rondo is a horrible fit for the triangle offense and I don't think Phil would want to give him a max.

 

[two3zone]

The Spurs need Duncan and Manu to retire to have a shot at Gasol (which could happen, just saying. Also why they didn't extend Leonard)

probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/31/report-kawhi-leonard-unlikely-to-sign-contract-extension-with-spurs/

 

[RandygoCuse]

They've got their draft pick this year? Maybe the Celtics can convince them to give them Rondo for the right to switch picks.

 

[sufandu]

Melo is going to end up as Bernard King 2.0. This isn't an insult either. The Nard Era was the bridge before the Ewing Era.
Melo is a great scorer a la King but he isn't an elite player that makes you an automatic title contender. Paul Pierce was slightly below Melo's level and he needed KG/Ray Allen/young players Rondo/Perkins/vets PJ Brown/James Posey.
If Melo wants to win a title it won't be in NY most likely. Marc Gasol is supposedly the Spurs FA target. Kevin Love will resign in Cleveland and that will leave Rajon Rondo. I brought up trading for him so he doesn't sign with the Lakers.
None of the picks in this year's draft are instant impact guys like Anthony Davis.

I can see this. The comparison I've made is to Dominique Wilkins, obviously not style of play but both were/are elite scorers. I may get jumped on for saying this, but that's why I thought he needed to take whatever pay cut was necessary to go to Chicago, if winning was his priority.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Melo has no right to complain. He could have went (nearly) anywhere during the off season. He choose $$$ and to stay in NY.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Melo has no right to complain. He could have went (nearly) anywhere during the off season. He choose $$$ and to stay in NY.

and 2 months into his 5 year no trade deal...he wants out??

and they have that great documentary on MSG showing how awesomely excited he is/was to sign back here.

i dont buy he wants out.

and he certainly shouldnt complain about it.

 

[elimunelson]

Watch.

Gonna win the lottery (The worst team never wins, it's usually the 3rd or 4th worst team) which is prob where we will end up in the end.

Take Okafor #1. Add him to Melo. Keep young pieces like Shumpert, Hardaway and Larkin also Cleanthony Early.

Knicks will get Marc Gasol. Have a solid already PG in Calderon. Fill in the rest of team around.

Now were going someplace.

Knicks will be a contender before the Lakers, and Celtics will again.

Celtics have cap space, hundreds of draft picks and a bunch of interesting young players. No way the Knicks will be better unless they waive that magic wand. That is crazy talk.

Danny Ainge actually has a plan and fleeced the Nets to start it up. Phil Jackson isn't going to get this going unless he moves Melo for picks and replenishes the young players on that squad. Gasol isn't going there b/c he loves Memphis. the big hope is Durant and he'd be an idiot to play there with all that dysfunction.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Carmelo Anthony was an amazing player for SU and did amazing things for our school.

If I was building an NBA team, I would want him nowhere near it.

 

[Knicks411]

probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/31/report-kawhi-leonard-unlikely-to-sign-contract-extension-with-spurs/

Right, that's what I'm saying. They didn't extend him before the deadline, so they'll be able to sign him in July but if Manu and Duncan retire they'll have a window where they can fit a max contract in.

 

[sufandu]

Carmelo Anthony was an amazing player for SU and did amazing things for our school.

If I was building an NBA team, I would want him no where near it.

Yeah. I don't think he's learned how to make his teammates better. He certainly has the skillset for it, but I don't know that he's ever matured into it.

 

[CraigForth]

If I'm the Knicks I would draft the best shot blocker/defender/rebounder (not Okafor - probably Towns). Then I would spend my cap space on two or three 8 mill a year guys who can play both offense and D. Thad Young comes to mind. Trade Hardaway for a cronut and send J.R. on a three hour tour aboard a boat during the stormy season and cross my fingers.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Let's say the Knicks sign Rondo after this year, do they have enough left over to get another big free agent? If so, who's out there?

 

[two3zone]

Rondo is a great player, but if the Knicks sign him to a max deal they're getting a guy who can't shoot the three, can't shoot free throws, and hasn't played more than 60 games in a season in 4 years. That is one contract that is going to look BAD the last couple seasons of it. I honestly don't think Phil would dish out a max contract for him.

 

[Alsacs]

Melo is far better than Bernard, and Im a huge Bernard fan.

this offense doesnt need a PG, it needs a C, rebound grinders and shooters.

right now all the Knicks have is 1 of the 10 best players in the sport.

Amare is good on O when he gets the ball 1st, but other than that...hes a disaster. cant move and why even bother discussing his D...

I posted the numbers before Melo and Bernard have very similar numbers.
Melo is a great scorer and can rebound a little. He doesn't play good defense I love the buy because of all he stuff he has done for SU he isn't a top 10 player in the NBA. He is an all-star and top 20. He needs a cast like Paul. Pierce got in 2008.

 

[KaiserUEO]

D

I posted the numbers before Melo and Bernard have very similar numbers.
Melo is a great scorer and can rebound a little. He doesn't play good defense I love the buy because of all he stuff he has done for SU he isn't a top 10 player in the NBA. He is an all-star and top 20. He needs a cast like Paul. Pierce got in 2008.

different players.

Carmelo shoots the 3 and rebounds, Bernard was a better finisher.

Everybody needs a surrounding cast, that's like nba champ prerequisite 101.

His problem has been and continues to be...that he is the best player on the team, and the 2nd best is off-night Carmelo and the 3rd best is really off-night Carmelo.

No other options.

His best coach was Karl.

Never expected them to be this bad, it's like mcw is the point or something...

 

[OrangeDW]

I can see this. The comparison I've made is to Dominique Wilkins, obviously not style of play but both were/are elite scorers. I may get jumped on for saying this, but that's why I thought he needed to take whatever pay cut was necessary to go to Chicago, if winning was his priority.

A couple things:

Dominique never had much to play with either, so that's another similarity.

Melo has already dealt with Amare's knees and it ruined the whole plan. Maybe he didn't want to deal with that again with Rose. As loaded as Chicago is, they aren't winning anything without Rose healthy and playing well.

 

[Alsacs]

D

different players.

Carmelo shoots the 3 and rebounds, Bernard was a better finisher.

Everybody needs a surrounding cast, that's like nba champ prerequisite 101.

His problem has been and continues to be...that he is the best player on the team, and the 2nd best is off-night Carmelo and the 3rd best is really off-night Carmelo.

No other options.

His best coach was Karl.

Never expected them to be this bad, it's like mcw is the point or something...

The 3pt shot wasn't used that much in the 80's. It wasn't till the mid 90's 3pt shooting became a bigger part of player's games outside of 3pt specialists.

All players need surrounding casts to win championships. Superstars who are top 10 in the NBA don't lead teams to 5-20 stretches. Melo is a great scorer, but doesn't play defense. He is entertainment, but he is not a two way player which top 10 guys do.

 

[OrangeDW]

The 3pt shot wasn't used that much in the 80's. It wasn't till the mid 90's 3pt shooting became a bigger part of player's games outside of 3pt specialists.

All players need surrounding casts to win championships. Superstars who are top 10 in the NBA don't lead teams to 5-20 stretches. Melo is a great scorer, but doesn't play defense. He is entertainment, but he is not a two way player which top 10 guys do.

Do you have Harden or Love in your top 10?

 

[Alsacs]

Do you have Harden or Love in your top 10?

My top 10
1.Lebron
2. Durant
3. Anthony Davis
4. Chris Paul
5. Steph Curry
6. Blake Griffin
7. Russell Westbrook
8. LaMarcus Aldridge
9. Kevin Love
10. James. Harden
Next guys: Boog Cousins, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard, Tony Parker, Paul George(healthy), Melo, Kyle Lowry, Derrick Rose, Damian Lillard.

 

[OrangeDW]

My top 10
1.Lebron
2. Durant
3. Anthony Davis
4. Chris Paul
5. Steph Curry
6. Blake Griffin
7. Russell Westbrook
8. LaMarcus Aldridge
9. Kevin Love
10. James. Harden
Next guys: Boog Cousins, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard, Tony Parker, Paul George(healthy), Melo, Kyle Lowry, Derrick Rose, Damian Lillard.

You can say a top 10 guy doesn't let his team go 5-20...But almost every single guy(except Curry and Cousins) that you listed in your 4-10 range and hon. mentions ahead of Melo, all have teammates listed or are part of a great franchise. Paul(he's great but how little heat he takes for his playoff CHOKES is beyond me. Maybe people didn't stay up late enough to watch his end game TO's last year?) has Griffin and vice versa. Westbrook has Durant. Harden has Howard and vice versa. Love has Lebron and Irving. Aldridge has Lillard. Parker is part of the best bball organization, hands down. Noah is the Bulls 4th best player IMO, but that team is loaded. I'd argue that you could switch any of those guys with Melo and the Knicks results would not be better. That team is bad.

And as an aside, I feel like Noah has become incredibly overrated. He's a nice role player who had a great year last year. Stats aren't everything as he's a good defender and team player, but he's 9 ppg, 10 rpg, 4 apg. Nice, but he's not an elite guy knocking on the top 10. He's like an Anthony Mason level guy, for a past reference,

 

[RanchoTris]

Melo needs to be traded to Golden State so he can focus on his true passion, venture capital.

I can see it now - Kleiner, Perkins and Melo.

 

[Alsacs]

You can say a top 10 guy doesn't let his team go 5-20...But almost every single guy(except Curry and Cousins) that you listed in your 4-10 range and hon. mentions ahead of Melo, all have teammates listed or are part of a great franchise. Paul(he's great but how little heat he takes for his playoff CHOKES is beyond me. Maybe people didn't stay up late enough to watch his end game TO's last year?) has Griffin and vice versa. Westbrook has Durant. Harden has Howard and vice versa. Love has Lebron and Irving. Aldridge has Lillard. Parker is part of the best bball organization, hands down. Noah is the Bulls 4th best player IMO, but that team is loaded. I'd argue that you could switch any of those guys with Melo and the Knicks results would not be better. That team is bad.

And as an aside, I feel like Noah has become incredibly overrated. He's a nice role player who had a great year last year. Stats aren't everything as he's a good defender and team player, but he's 9 ppg, 10 rpg, 4 apg. Nice, but he's not an elite guy knocking on the top 10. He's like an Anthony Mason level guy, for a past reference,

We can agree to disagree I love Carmelo Anthony. The guy deserves a statue at SU IMO for all he has done for our program. I just don't think he is a top 10 guy and I think my list is pretty good. You can slide him into your top 10 I wouldn't object. I just think he is an elite scorer and doesn't do much more. If your top 10 I don't think your team can go 5-20 I can see tough stretches but not horrible 25% of a season.

 

[OrangeDW]

We can agree to disagree I love Carmelo Anthony. The guy deserves a statue at SU IMO for all he has done for our program. I just don't think he is a top 10 guy and I think my list is pretty good. You can slide him into your top 10 I wouldn't object. I just think he is an elite scorer and doesn't do much more. If your top 10 I don't think your team can go 5-20 I can see tough stretches but not horrible 25% of a season.

If Carmelo played with Dwight Howard or Damian Lillard or Lebron James and Kyrie Irving, I suspect he'd be a unanimous top 10 guy.

I think the top 3 guys are obvious, and after that there can be some debate. Also I think the top 3 guys are the only ones good enough that they could singlehandedly make a team as bad as the Knicks competitive.

 

[sufandu]

A couple things:

Dominique never had much to play with either, so that's another similarity.

Melo has already dealt with Amare's knees and it ruined the whole plan. Maybe he didn't want to deal with that again with Rose. As loaded as Chicago is, they aren't winning anything without Rose healthy and playing well.

I suppose. I think Dominique had some teammates that were better in the late 80's early 90's with Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis and Moses Malone, and he was on a number 50 win teams (57 in 86-87). He certainly never had a complementary star the way Jordan had with Pippen or Bird or Magic had on those 80's teams.

Everybody keeps bringing up Rose. People talk as if the Bulls have sucked without him. They've been better without Rose than the Knicks have been with Melo. Even with Rose missing 8 games so far this year they're still 4th in the east. You can't do that without other good players on the team. Without Rose, Melo would have more talent around him than he's ever had anywhere else and one of the top 2 or 3 coaches in the league. They'd be a favorite to win their division and contend in the east. With Rose, they'd be THE favorite in the east.

Now Melo has to hope that before he gets too old Phil can put something together. He'll be 34 at the end of his current contract. At this stage of his career he would've been better with an established team than waiting for one to rebuild. All of this is assuming that winning is his priority. If it's not, he should be perfectly happy making an obscene amount of money living in the city he prefers to live in.