Since starting 25-0 in 2013, there have been 141 regular season games

[Cusefan0307]

The stars next to the name may be the same but they don't look as talented/skilled as a number of previous players. As a freshman, Hak was a solid player and as a soohomore he had legit skills. Some of that could be development but I think he kist came in better that most of what we've seen lately. Maybe we don't sxout as well as we used to.

Warricks numbers were the same his freshman year as Dolezaj. He was also a 4 star guy. He got better fast as he was a freak athlete. We didn’t get that sophomore year jump out of Brissett and Marek like i expected.

 

[sufandu]

Warricks numbers were the same his freshman year as Dolezaj. He was also a 4 star guy. He got better fast as he was a freak athlete. We didn’t get that sophomore year jump out of Brissett and Marek like i expected.

Don't get caught up in just numbers. As a freshman, you could see Hak had the chance to be really really good, very much because of that athleticism. Hak's numbers were never going to be good his first year. Shumpert and Williams were gonna take every shot. With the lack of depth on last years team, Marek had more opportunity as a freshman than Hak.

 

[tbonezone]

Hawk played 609 minutes as a frosh . marek played 1033.

 

[Willy75]

And Syracuse is 83-58 (59% winning percentage). For the average program and without knowing expectations, coaching, or history, that is pretty darn solid. We definitely have been spoiled over the decades (literally) of basketball success. I wonder where this stretch stacks up all time over a similar # of games stretch.

I have no idea where I am going with this, but I felt like doing the math because I was curious.

Also saw we won against Miami 49-44 to kick off acc play in 2013. Must have dislodged that from my memory bank.

For a 32 game season that percentage averages out to 19-13, not so hot.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Gbinije was a better player than fair at his peak. Fair had a better college career.

Yep. Silent G’s last season was remarkable. Not only being the PG (frankly he bailed everybody out with the Kaleb Joseph blunder) but a great defensive player in the zone. He got downhill too and sometimes had to do it all. Fair had a nice career. Not the kind of forward talent who you can run all the offense through and expect him to ISO and ball like Melo. That 25-0 team was grinded to a hault and eventually couldn’t score. Fair was part of that end of year freefall.

 

[SBU72]

And Syracuse is 83-58 (59% winning percentage). For the average program and without knowing expectations, coaching, or history, that is pretty darn solid. We definitely have been spoiled over the decades (literally) of basketball success. I wonder where this stretch stacks up all time over a similar # of games stretch.

I have no idea where I am going with this, but I felt like doing the math because I was curious.

Also saw we won against Miami 49-44 to kick off acc play in 2013. Must have dislodged that from my memory bank.

Switch from the BE where SU was almost always near the top to the ACC where SU usually middle third. How many years did it take to win their first game in the ACCT versus how many time did SU lose 1st round games in the BET. So never was a stretch of top opponents.

 

[Alsacs]

Switch from the BE where SU was almost always near the top to the ACC where SU usually middle third. How many years did it take to win their first game in the ACCT versus how many time did SU lose 1st round games in the BET. So never was a stretch of top opponents.

We have become Seton Hall in the regular season since we joined the ACC.
Now the Pirates are sniffing a Final Four like we have but our program has become medicore since 2014.
Our recruiting hasn’t brought in a high level PG or C.
The Hop-JB differences in recruiting philosophy didn’t help either. Hop was the loyal soldier who did what he was told but he wouldn’t have done it the way we did. That set Hop up to fail when he would have taken over.
So Hop didn’t want to take over a tough situation and be the guy who forced his mentor to retire before he was ready.
That hurt us.
Switching to ACC from the BE didn’t really hurt us as much as sanctions and bad recruiting have.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yep. Silent G’s last season was remarkable. Not only being the PG (frankly he bailed everybody out with the Kaleb Joseph blunder) but a great defensive player in the zone. He got downhill too and sometimes had to do it all. Fair had a nice career. Not the kind of forward talent who you can run all the offense through and expect him to ISO and ball like Melo. That 25-0 team was grinded to a hault and eventually couldn’t score. Fair was part of that end of year freefall.

If I were ranking their seasons, it’s:

1. Gbinije - SR
2. Fair - JR
3. Fair - SR
4. Gbinije - JR
5. Fair - So
6. Fair - Fresh
7. Gbinije - Soph

Fair was a good player right from year 1 and had the better overall career.

But Gbinije as a senior was hands down the best overall player on that team. He did everything.

That game against the Dome late in the year against NC State was one of the all time great SU performances. Put the team on his back.

Fair was a great and really efficient number 2 guy on that 2013 final four team. But he wasn’t cut out to handle the load the way Gbinije had to in 2016.

 

[SoBeCuse]

If I were ranking their seasons, it’s:

1. Gbinije - SR
2. Fair - JR
3. Fair - SR
4. Gbinije - JR
5. Fair - So
6. Fair - Fresh
7. Gbinije - Soph

Fair was a good player right from year 1 and had the better overall career.

But Gbinije as a senior was hands down the best overall player on that team. He did everything.

That game against the Dome late in the year against NC State was one of the all time great SU performances. Put the team on his back.

Fair was a great and really efficient number 2 guy on that 2013 final four team. But he wasn’t cut out to handle the load the way Gbinije had to in 2016.

Good stuff.

 

[OrangeDW]

That 25-0 streak had a couple of impressive games like the Nova game Ennis and Cooney were special in.
The Duke game at the Dome where Fair and Grant were special.
Watching that 2014 Duke game we scored the ball so easy thanks to Grant posting and Fair elbow jumper game.

We are Seton Hall with 1 Final Four since we joined the ACC.
Sanctions did hurt depth and recruiting but our future will be determined by the Bigs we recruit.
I really don’t want year 6 for Chukwu.
If

That game was amazing. Thought that would be the norm.

We’ve had some other good games with them and a couple nice wins but the level of play in that first one was so high. I really thought us and them were going to be clashing at the top of the ACC every year back then(we easily handled UNC that season). Man...

 

[CaptainJ]

I wish I had a stat on how many drinks I averaged before and after that dividing point.

 

[SWC75]

And Syracuse is 83-58 (59% winning percentage). For the average program and without knowing expectations, coaching, or history, that is pretty darn solid. We definitely have been spoiled over the decades (literally) of basketball success. I wonder where this stretch stacks up all time over a similar # of games stretch.

I have no idea where I am going with this, but I felt like doing the math because I was curious.

Also saw we won against Miami 49-44 to kick off acc play in 2013. Must have dislodged that from my memory bank.

It's hard to match the # of games but from the Vermont game in 2005 to the Villanova home loss in 2009, (when we started 16-1 but then lost 7 of 10)we were 87-46, (133 games vs. 141), a winning percentage of .654, which over 31 games is 20-11. That's a little better than now, (if this team goes 20-11, I'll celebrate). But the board was much the same: "The game has passed him by. It's time for him to retire. We need a younger coach who isn't so set in his ways."

Then we had a 183 game stretch where he went 155-28 (.847).

 

[Trueblue25]

Seniorms Gbinije and Rak were some of our best players of the decade. Fair had a very good career here being the leader of multiple great Syracuse teams

 

[Alsacs]

It's hard to match the # of games but from the Vermont game in 2005 to the Villanova home loss in 2009, (when we started 16-1 but then lost 7 of 10)we were 87-46, (133 games vs. 141), a winning percentage of .654, which over 31 games is 20-11. That's a little better than now, (if this team goes 20-11, I'll celebrate). But the board was much the same: "The game has passed him by. It's time for him to retire. We need a younger coach who isn't so set in his ways."

Then we had a 183 game stretch where he went 155-28 (.847).

2006 we finished under .500 in BE play for the first time. If GMac doesn’t go on the BET we don’t make the tournament.

2007 we lost to Oklahoma State, Drexel, and Wichita State and was medicore all year long. We should have gotten in the last 4 teams in Tournament.

2008 We were young and lost at home to Rhode Island and got destroyed at MSG by Ohio State. The team finished .500 in BE

2006 record 23-12
2007 record 24-11
2008 record 21-14

Those 3 years were medicore. 1 medicore year okay but 3 in a row is a problem. Then we had 5 years of dominance. Now 5 years of medicority again.

Just like
2015 record 18-13
2016 record 23-14
2017 record 19-15
2018 record 23–14

Have been medicore. The complaints aren’t we are doing well and flaming out in a single loss tournament.
Like Florida State has done.

We were medicore from 06-08 and have been from 2015-present.

We are just lucky we have the 2016 Final Four and the 09-14 teams being good.

 

[OttoMets]

It's hard to match the # of games but from the Vermont game in 2005 to the Villanova home loss in 2009, (when we started 16-1 but then lost 7 of 10)we were 87-46, (133 games vs. 141), a winning percentage of .654, which over 31 games is 20-11. That's a little better than now, (if this team goes 20-11, I'll celebrate). But the board was much the same: "The game has passed him by. It's time for him to retire. We need a younger coach who isn't so set in his ways."

Then we had a 183 game stretch where he went 155-28 (.847).

And it's funny, because the fans weren't the only ones thinking that in 2009. Retirement was really on the table that year.

I'm glad he didn't.

 

[Cusefan0307]

2006 we finished under .500 in BE play for the first time. If GMac doesn’t go on the BET we don’t make the tournament.

2007 we lost to Oklahoma State, Drexel, and Wichita State and was medicore all year long. We should have gotten in the last 4 teams in Tournament.

2008 We were young and lost at home to Rhode Island and got destroyed at MSG by Ohio State. The team finished .500 in BE

2006 record 23-12
2007 record 24-11
2008 record 21-14

Those 3 years were medicore. 1 medicore year okay but 3 in a row is a problem. Then we had 5 years of dominance. Now 5 years of medicority again.

Just like
2015 record 18-13
2016 record 23-14
2017 record 19-15
2018 record 23–14

Have been medicore. The complaints aren’t we are doing well and flaming out in a single loss tournament.
Like Florida State has done.

We were medicore from 06-08 and have been from 2015-present.

We are just lucky we have the 2016 Final Four and the 09-14 teams being good.

The 2016 team had a mediocre record, but I think they win 2-3 more games if JB doesn't get suspended and we most likely are not on the bubble. That team was wayyyy better than the other 3 teams and maybe even better than this year. That period we played with Hop we really struggled on defense, especially against St. Johns, Clemson and Georgetown.

They finished 2nd in the ACC in 3 point shots made and 5th in percentage. If they played last years team they win by at least 10.

 

[SWC75]

2006 we finished under .500 in BE play for the first time. If GMac doesn’t go on the BET we don’t make the tournament.

2007 we lost to Oklahoma State, Drexel, and Wichita State and was medicore all year long. We should have gotten in the last 4 teams in Tournament.

2008 We were young and lost at home to Rhode Island and got destroyed at MSG by Ohio State. The team finished .500 in BE

2006 record 23-12
2007 record 24-11
2008 record 21-14

Those 3 years were medicore. 1 medicore year okay but 3 in a row is a problem. Then we had 5 years of dominance. Now 5 years of medicority again.

Just like
2015 record 18-13
2016 record 23-14
2017 record 19-15
2018 record 23–14

Have been medicore. The complaints aren’t we are doing well and flaming out in a single loss tournament.
Like Florida State has done.

We were medicore from 06-08 and have been from 2015-present.

We are just lucky we have the 2016 Final Four and the 09-14 teams being good.

The all-time low point of my SU basketball fandom, at least in the JB era was the 2008 loss to UMASS in the NIT. It was the second time we'd lost in the Dome to them that season! We had a 24 point lead in the second half and I was thinking that this should shut up the critics for a while. I thought maybe we were finally going to win the NIT, something we'd never done and which used to be a big deal, (I'm still angry about what the refs did to us against Tulsa in '81). Then the lead began to melt away like a snowman on a rainy day and, incredibly, completely disappeared. It was along, sad trip home because I knew the board would be like a pool of piranha fish, waiting to strip JB and the team to the bone with criticism and anybody with a note of optimism or respect would be shouted off the board. I scraped together an "Upside " to go with the "Downside", (I have no idea what I said), posted it and stayed off the board for about a week.

 

[OttoMets]

... I scraped together an "Upside " to go with the "Downside", (I have no idea what I said), posted it and stayed off the board for about a week.

You save these things in Word documents, right? Find it and share! It's been a decade, but I can't think of any upside after that one. Maybe the thought that Donte Greene was pretty productive and might improve as a sophomore?

 

[SWC75]

You save these things in Word documents, right? Find it and share! It's been a decade, but I can't think of any upside after that one. Maybe the thought that Donte Greene was pretty productive and might improve as a sophomore?

No, I write over the last Upside/Downside posts. I was able to re-create the "Downside" for the national championship because I remember what I'd said, (It wasn't really a "downside"). I think in 2008 I probably just expressed hope for improvement the next year based on the players coming back, the recruits, etc. And I was right- we were better the next year, going form 21-14 to 28-10.

 

[Lucid]

I think recruiting is and has been the heart of the issue, which isn't hard hitting news to anybody.

We just don't have the talent we're accustomed to. If you had to construct a 'typical' average Syracuse team over the last two decades, or a similar span of time before the program's decline, what would the roster look like? How many minutes would Frank and Oshae play on that team? Would Marek be on the roster? Would we accept Hughes' transfer and play him right away? Would Battle be relied upon to do practically everything for the team on offense? How about Chukwu and Sidibe?

The answers to these questions are obvious to me and the 'secret' of our struggles.

Recruiting looks better going forward. Not dealing with sanctions is a big part of that. There is hope, but be prepared for at least 2 more years of suck.

Excellent post.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think recruiting is and has been the heart of the issue, which isn't hard hitting news to anybody.

Recruiting looks better going forward. There is hope, but be prepared for at least 2 more years of suck.

Not sure the recruiting is that much better - this is becoming like the football board where we try to put a positive spin on our Plan Bs. We're lacking the one or two elite McD talents that we used to surround with 4-star guys. And still no serviceable big man in sight. JBA is just more of the same. All of JB's best teams had really good frontcourt talent. Or are we moving the goalposts now and settling for just comfortably making the tourney as a 9 seed as acceptable?

 

[Brooky03]

Not sure the recruiting is that much better - this is becoming like the football board where we try to put a positive spin on our Plan Bs. We're lacking the one or two elite McD talents that we used to surround with 4-star guys. And still no serviceable big man in sight. JBA is just more of the same. All of JB's best teams had really good frontcourt talent. Or are we moving the goalposts now and settling for just comfortably making the tourney as a 9 seed as acceptable?

Stewart looks like he'd be a better big than we've had in a while. Aren't our chances still good with him?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Stewart looks like he'd be a better big than we've had in a while. Aren't our chances still good with him?

Definitely best big in a LONG time. To have a Julius Randle/Derrick Favors-type ready to go player from Day 1 at Syracuse woulld be huge. Something we haven’t seen since maybe Coleman in terms of ready to produce from the start bigs. I don’t necessarily think he’s going to be an NBA All-Star but he’s exactly what this team needs and would be a sight for sore eyes. That being said, it seems that MSU and Washington are the leaders.

 

[Sherman20]

I watched CJ last night on my other TV when watching Netflix as there was a G league game on at 1030 and it made me wonder if we have had a player as good as him since he left.

I would say no.

Mike Gbinije. Lydon and Mali had the talent but neither stayed long enough to have as good a career as CJ, but would have finished with better careers if they’d played all four years. Rak. Tyus freakin Battle. He just didn’t have the right complementary pieces around him to succeed like he should have.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Mike Gbinije. Lydon and Mali had the talent but neither stayed long enough to have as good a career as CJ, but would have finished with better careers if they’d played all four years. Rak. Tyus freakin Battle. He just didn’t have the right complementary pieces around him to succeed like he should have.

Nope. Rak was dissapointing for 3 seasons and great as a Senior. But Sr Rak wasn't even as good as So Fab before the suspension. He wasn't better than CJ. Lydon spent 2 years playing on bubble teams. He was lucky to not tank his draft stock as a SO with all the pump fakes. He wasn't much better as a SO than a FR. I'm not sure Mali would have improved he bounced out of the NBA hard. Battle regressed as a Jr.

Wish we still had guys like that though. Current team might not even be middle of the pack for ACC talent. We might actually suck this year and go something like 5-15 in league play.