So... Help is on the way?

[javadoc]

I get the feeling that if Dino was here 10 years had a losing record in 8 of those 10 years that the die hard supporters would still be saying " I see improvement, it's a process, not a quick fix, wait till next year, etc".

Lets suppose we have a winning season next year, go to a minor bowl game..."Yay"..."we've turned the corner, things are looking up !" and then we come back the following year and we regress back to losing.

That happened after our 10-2 season. How long do the die hard supporters make excuses ?

I presume you have analyzed the situation thoroughly enough to aver that people are making excuses, and not stating reasons.

 

[721Comstock]

No. Signed 19. Number 20 will sign in February. Currently 61 returning. 61 + 20 is 81...no calculator used. With a cap of 85 that means 4 spots, 4 spots only.

This assumes nobody else leaves.
Or gets medically DQ’d.

And I have no idea if that returning # includes Servais, Black, & Jonathan, but if so, they don’t count against the 85.

I was going more on the 25 / class cap.

Since the other #’s always seem to work themselves out, one way or another.

 

[TheCusian]

Look, it’s not just us lol

 

[Cusefan69]

I get the feeling that if Dino was here 10 years had a losing record in 8 of those 10 years that the die hard supporters would still be saying " I see improvement, it's a process, not a quick fix, wait till next year, etc".

Lets suppose we have a winning season next year, go to a minor bowl game..."Yay"..."we've turned the corner, things are looking up !" and then we come back the following year and we regress back to losing.

That happened after our 10-2 season. How long do the die hard supporters make excuses ?

Let me ask you and everyone else who is banging the drum to have Dino fired today. The AD JW is a pretty damn intelligent and experienced guy in business and without question being an AD is all business in P5. He is donating over a million of his own money...getting donations from other donors that will allow him to continue to augment the football and hoops to make Syracuse significantly more competitive with our peers. He has also shown with the Chancellor that he is willing to get more money for the coaches and staff. So if our AD, who is doing all that feels good with going with Dino next year, why can't you? My guess would be he has shared his expectations and knows what needs to happen or he would not be in that chair.

 

[Crusty]

I highly suggest anyone who’s not, watch the kids highlights and tapes. Gives a different perspective. While ratings may suggest stagnancy over the past 15 years (for a second I’ll pretend HCSS recruited comparably), the tape shows a difference in type of player we’re taking

Respectfully, we hear that almost every year. There is not a dimes worth of difference in recruiting over the past 15 years. That includes Shafer who thus far at least has recruiting more stars than Dino. It is just not possible to recruit like the rest of the conference at the present time. We have to be that much better choosing 3 star kids and developing them. Hard to do every year.
This year's crop are bigger but that doesn't mean they are going to develop into anything special just because they are taller.
Lots of coaching to do.

 

[Crusty]

I get the feeling that if Dino was here 10 years had a losing record in 8 of those 10 years that the die hard supporters would still be saying " I see improvement, it's a process, not a quick fix, wait till next year, etc".

Lets suppose we have a winning season next year, go to a minor bowl game..."Yay"..."we've turned the corner, things are looking up !" and then we come back the following year and we regress back to losing.

That happened after our 10-2 season. How long do the die hard supporters make excuses ?

There is no coach out there who would take this job who will do a better job than Dino. Dino has given us our best moments the last decade and a half. Forget this crazy year. The players believe in him so who are you to doubt?
We are a 5th tier program and no coaching change will change that. We have to be patient while ADJW builds the program infrastructure, which he is doing, allowing us to complete with the conference.

 

[AngryOtto]

No. Signed 19. Number 20 will sign in February. Currently 61 returning. 61 + 20 is 81...no calculator used. With a cap of 85 that means 4 spots, 4 spots only.

People probably feel there will be other transfer out. I could see another 5. Is Adams and Howard included in that 61?

 

[orangepassion]

We have been saying for 15 years it’s a solid under valued class. Look where that got us. Truth is recruiting is not good enough

Look at the film and offer sheets and I think you'll see a difference. Think this is Dino's best class- Covid really helped us here.

 

[kcsu]

Last 2 years have been solid. This class is solid. We will be a 6 7 win team next year. We still need some game ready DTs

 

[cuse309]

Firing the head coach every 4 years has worked great for us over the last 20 years. Let's do it again! How anyone could hold this year against Dino is beyond me.

 

[Crusty]

Look at the film and offer sheets and I think you'll see a difference. Think this is Dino's best class- Covid really helped us here.

I have looked at all the tapes but they always look good. Nobody posts bad tapes. The ratings are the same range as previous classes.
Hope you're right.

 

[Dodger44]

I presume you have analyzed the situation thoroughly enough to aver that people are making excuses, and not stating reasons.

Excuses, state reasons, still equal losing more games than we've won in 5 years. It's about results. You think if DINO was in the NFL he'd still have a job. Many other schools would have released him. Based on what has been reported, the buyout is too much for the University especially with the revenue lost due to Covid. Keep in mind our competition gets better too.

 

[Dodger44]

Firing the head coach every 4 years has worked great for us over the last 20 years. Let's do it again! How anyone could hold this year against Dino is beyond me.

Didn't every Div 1 football coach have to face the same challenges ? Anybody can make excuses.

 

[Dodger44]

There is no coach out there who would take this job who will do a better job than Dino. Dino has given us our best moments the last decade and a half. Forget this crazy year. The players believe in him so who are you to doubt.
We are a 5th tier program and no coaching change will change that. We have to be patient while ADJW builds the program infrastructure, which he is doing, allowing us to complete with the conference.

The players believed in Scott Shafer too. Remember, it's about results not efforts. ADJW didn't hire Dino and if Dino doesn't perform, ADJW will hire his own coach. Dino's a nice guy, gives good motivation speeches (so do many other coaches), but he was hired to turn a program around and based on his record we have seen little of that except for the 10-2 season that had Scott Shafer recruits, Dungy, Donte Strickland, Cordy, Ravian Pierce, Jamal Custis, Cody Conway, Chris Slayton, and Aaron Roberts among others. Dino's previous two stops he inherited Sophs, Juniors, and Seniors. We really don't have any information how how his two recruiting classes fared out at Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green. All we have to judge is his recruiting classes here. How many of his coaches moved onto better programs ? how many players where drafted into the NFL ? Why in 5 years hasn't he been able to recruit depth on the OL and DL ? Why do his teams continue to make stupid penalties? How many times have we seen them come out of a time out and fail to get a play off in time? Maybe Dino is too nice a guy ? Where is the enthusiasm on the sidelines ?

 

[Cusefan69]

The empty can rattles loudest. I am convinced some of the people stomping their feet on the ground about Dino really just enjoy complaining loudly and throw their arms up and yell this and that. I think some people have brought up fair concerns and comments and you can tell by how they discuss and raise their concerns that they are also able to hear other people talking and their points. Some just like howling at the moon. Keep howling how wrong and unfair it is then. It won't and doesn't matter...Dino is coming back in 2021. As you would expect, the AD will reassess Dino again as things progress and into year end 2021. If a decision makes sense to the AD to make at that point, he will make it.

 

[TheCusian]

Respectfully, we hear that almost every year. There is not a dimes worth of difference in recruiting over the past 15 years. That includes Shafer who thus far at least has recruiting more stars than Dino. It is just not possible to recruit like the rest of the conference at the present time. We have to be that much better choosing 3 star kids and developing them. Hard to do every year.
This year's crop are bigger but that doesn't mean they are going to develop into anything special just because they are taller.
Lots of coaching to do.

I’d love to see a breakdown of who is deemed a star in the Shafer vs Dino recruiting battle. Not being combative - truly intrigued

 

[All4SU]

Most of us here have been around this block more times than we care to recall. Speaking personally, if my range of fandom here went back a decade, I might feel the same. But I’ve seen 8 coaches come and go. And I feel pretty sure I’m correct when I say, yes, wins and losses are how coaches need to be measured. But at the same time there are other factors that come into play in college sports that don’t always relate to professional sports. When you run a team associated with a school, the image of the program transcends wins and losses to some degree. In the NFL, for example, that’s not always the case. And college programs do not typically succeed when you establish a pattern of running coaches out of town every five years. Sometimes you have to accept that circumstances may have impacted some results, then gauge whether or not the coach is fulfilling his related obligations such as ensuring kids are graduating, are they representing the university well on the whole, and are their reasons to believe success will come in time. Sometimes a little more time can make all the difference.

In year 1 of HCDM there was a noticeable positive vibe around the program. There was a renewed excitement. WIth a great win over a ranked team. In year 2 this continued, but Dungey getting hurt was a blow the team couldn’t overcome. But again a great win over a ranked team. Year 3 was an overachieving group! Year 4 was an underachieving group perhaps due to some severe OL injuries. And I dont know how to evaluate year five. Yes it’s true other teams overcame the same issues we were dealt, but other teams did not. 2020!is an outlier IMO that will only be able to be evaluated over time.

I like HCDB. I think the team plays hard for him. He’s demonstrated he will make staff changes when he has to. His current recruiting class seems to fill a lot of needs without any kids who look like long shots - regardless of rankings. The penalties are a concern, but they can also be explained to some degree by youth or inexperience. I’m willing to see if there is improvement.

I guess the message is be careful what you wish for. Because I’ve seen more instances of dumping a Coach leading to worse results than better results - at least short term. Beyond that I want to see Dino be successful here.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I was just looking at the ACC recruiting rankings for this year and was astonished to see that Pitt is ranked #4 (per 247sports). No reason why we can’t recruit at that level. There’s no way their facilities are any better than ours...they don’t even have their own stadium.

Pitt's a pretty cool city. Lots to do. Campus is pretty cool, especially for an urban campus. Pretty highly rated college.
If you were a young professional, and your choice of work cities were Syracuse or Pittsburgh, Pitt wins 999/1000.

 

[Cusedad2X]

If you go back through those classes I'm sure you can find the reaches.

I know what you're saying but the amount of last year's class that played and played well coupled with the amount of offers players get right after Dino and Co offer lends credence to this staff identifying talent.

And were those reaches all the Dino's camp offers?? You know the players that a few board "experts " claimed were grossly underrated? You know, the "I trust the staff more than any recruiting service" crowd??. There were many board favorites (one in particular) that the "herd" on here just had to agree with.

We are seeing what Dino recruited on the field. Let's hope it is getting better. Hey, at least there were no Dino summer camp offers this year.. Just Kidding...sort of.

 

[cuse309]

Didn't every Div 1 football coach have to face the same challenges ? Anybody can make excuses.

Not the amount of challenges we had. 3 NFL caliber players in the secondary hardly played. We had a converted fullback/dt playing on the offensive line.A line that did not have Aaron Servais, or Bleich, the transfer that was denied eligibility for some unknown reason while most other transfers were granted immediate eligibility. Our number 1, and 2 backs sat out, our 3rd back got injured. Oh, and we played 3 different QB's, 2 of them true freshman after our starter went down. Half of our defense were true freshman. Find me another P5 with that laundry list of reasons...oops, I meant excuses.
This is Syracuse, not Clemson. We have consistently fired the HC every 4 or 5 years only to rebuild from the basement every time. You know what we haven't tried? Sticking with a coach.

 

[All4SU]

Of course. But this is Syracuse, not Clemson. We have consistently fired the HC every 4 or 5 years only to rebuild from the basement every time. You know what we haven't tried? Sticking with a coach.

Exactly. Well we did stick with MAC. The SackMacPack would have fired him in 1986. And look what happened. Patience is frequently rewarded.

 

[kcsu]

Dinos ok hes never going to be a good game caller. If Gilbert is good Dino will win. If not he wont.

 

[KevMonstah]

The players believed in Scott Shafer too. Remember, it's about results not efforts. ADJW didn't hire Dino and if Dino doesn't perform, ADJW will hire his own coach. Dino's a nice guy, gives good motivation speeches (so do many other coaches), but he was hired to turn a program around and based on his record we have seen little of that except for the 10-2 season that had Scott Shafer recruits, Dungy, Donte Strickland, Cordy, Ravian Pierce, Jamal Custis, Cody Conway, Chris Slayton, and Aaron Roberts among others. Dino's previous two stops he inherited Sophs, Juniors, and Seniors. We really don't have any information how how his two recruiting classes fared out at Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green. All we have to judge is his recruiting classes here. How many of his coaches moved onto better programs ? how many players where drafted into the NFL ? Why in 5 years hasn't he been able to recruit depth on the OL and DL ? Why do his teams continue to make stupid penalties? How many times have we seen them come out of a time out and fail to get a play off in time? Maybe Dino is too nice a guy ? Where is the enthusiasm on the sidelines ?

Scott Shafer was a fiery guy, but he had no clue how to run an offense. He was a perfect coach for
the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" days on O, but he sure did know defense. You can complain about QB
depth, but, Shafer believed in Zach Mahoney. Also the penalties are frustrating, but they've been taking
awful procedure/motion penalties since the early 90s. I can remember watching Marvin Graves calling
a timeout at first and goal on the one, because they couldn't get set in time to do their "up the middle
run on first down". Really? They've been doing that for 30 years; they must recruit guys who do that. I
was tremendously disappointed in 2019's team. If they could've made a bowl, then I think that would've
laid the groundwork for a return to national prominence. This year? Hey, I'll take the improvement on D
in that they didn't give up 600 yards of total offense once, let alone three times. Now keep that, and do
that on O, and you'll have a season.

KF.

 

[money3189]

The players believed in Scott Shafer too. Remember, it's about results not efforts. ADJW didn't hire Dino and if Dino doesn't perform, ADJW will hire his own coach. Dino's a nice guy, gives good motivation speeches (so do many other coaches), but he was hired to turn a program around and based on his record we have seen little of that except for the 10-2 season that had Scott Shafer recruits, Dungy, Donte Strickland, Cordy, Ravian Pierce, Jamal Custis, Cody Conway, Chris Slayton, and Aaron Roberts among others. Dino's previous two stops he inherited Sophs, Juniors, and Seniors. We really don't have any information how how his two recruiting classes fared out at Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green. All we have to judge is his recruiting classes here. How many of his coaches moved onto better programs ? how many players where drafted into the NFL ? Why in 5 years hasn't he been able to recruit depth on the OL and DL ? Why do his teams continue to make stupid penalties? How many times have we seen them come out of a time out and fail to get a play off in time? Maybe Dino is too nice a guy ? Where is the enthusiasm on the sidelines ?

You are talking more about development. Recruiting has two different parts. Salemanship and developing. You have to develop the skill set of the players you brought in. They were brought in to perform in a specific scheme, I think overall Dino has brought in better quality recruits but he has struggled developing them. At the same time you can give him some credit for developing those players you mention. They were playing in a scheme not suited for them and he got the most out of them.

 

[orangepassion]

I have looked at all the tapes but they always look good. Nobody posts bad tapes. The ratings are the same range as previous classes.
Hope you're right.

So am I. I'm not saying it's a top 10 class. I just think it's the best class we've had. A dual-threat QB who can throw on the run, think Hatcher has star potential, and finally got some numbers on the lines. We still have to develop them.