So here's to you, Joe Missouri-O

[rrlbees]

Yeah, that would suck. I can't even imagine. :bang:

I know what you mean, but I'm talking from a different context.

 

[kyleslamb]

What I love about this discussion is that it may be the first time since the 1800s that people actually care about the St. Louis and Kansas City "markets".

Markets similar to St. Louis and Kansas City...

Portland, OR
Sacramento
Hartford/New Haven
Nashville
Raleigh-Durham

We're not talking about NYC and LA here people.

Except we're not comparing it to NYC, LA or Chicago. We're comparing it to the relative markets leftover in the Big 12. Not sure what NYC or LA has to do with the Big 12...

 

[Scooch]

Except we're not comparing it to NYC, LA or Chicago. We're comparing it to the relative markets leftover in the Big 12. Not sure what NYC or LA has to do with the Big 12...

No, you were saying that the Big XII would face certain long-term extinction without Missouri. Which is absurd. Maybe Texas and Oklahoma will split the conference someday. Hell, maybe tomorrow. But if they want to keep it together, whether Mizzou is in or not will not materially affect the conference's value? Why? Among other things, because St. Louis & KC are not meaningful TV markets.

 

[kyleslamb]

No, you were saying that the Big XII would face certain long-term extinction without Missouri. Which is absurd. Maybe Texas and Oklahoma will split the conference someday. Hell, maybe tomorrow. But if they want to keep it together, whether Mizzou is in or not will not materially affect the conference's value? Why? Among other things, because St. Louis & KC are not meaningful TV markets.

Yes, I did say that because Fox didn't agree to pay all that money to lose Texas A&M and then another 20% of the conference markets in one fell swoop. As I said... it's very likely Fox would at very least void the contract and attempt to renegotiate. The end result is of that happening (Fox voiding the contract and renegotiating a new one) could wind up being the breakup of the Big 12 for good. I stick behind that.

They're meaningful television markets when they comprise 1/5 of an entire conference. I think I made that position pretty clear why I think they're important. If we're talking about a 12-team Big 12 with Nebraska, Colorado and Texas A&M staying afloat... sure, they're not as big a loss. But when you're talking 20% of the entire remaining footprint, that's nothing to sneeze at.

KC and STL do pretty well as markets for ratings. In the 56 metered markets the last few years, they've rated in the upper half of markets for bowl and NCAA Tournament ratings. Given they are professional-size, top-30 markets, that's still a fairly big deal. New York City, on the contrary, is constantly in the bottom 3 of all metered markets in college sports ratings. Now of course NYC is an aggregate market in that it's so big, even a small rating is bigger than a large rating in most markets. But the point here is not that KC or STL are better markets, just that they're pro size markets that do fairly well for college sports. And when it's 20% of an entire conference footprint, losing them is not exactly small potatoes.

 

[Jake]

LOL. Easily the most humorous thread of the day. I know some of you know why.

 

[kyleslamb]

LOL. Easily the most humorous thread of the day. I know some of you know why.

Would you like to enlighten those that don't know why?

 

[omniorange]

A nation turns its lonely expansion eyes to you.
Another thing to watch: Notre Dame. Despite public comments that might run to the contrary, some interesting feedback was given to other hockey conferences recently. It will be interesting to see how that all develops.

Just out of curiosity, what did you mean by this?

I've always felt ND would wind up in Hockey East myself. They wanted to play basketball in an "eastern" conference, why wouldn't they want to play hockey in one?

Please note that I don't think where ND wants to play either bb or hockey has any bearing on where they want to play football. I've always thought that when the Irish did join a conference for football, it would be the Big Ten. But I do believe the ACC has made itself an attractive alternative if they choose not to go there.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[kyleslamb]

Just out of curiosity, what did you mean by this?

I've always felt ND would wind up in Hockey East myself. They wanted to play basketball in an "eastern" conference, why wouldn't they want to play hockey in one?

Please note that I don't think where ND wants to play either bb or hockey has any bearing on where they want to play football. I've always thought that when the Irish did join a conference for football, it would be the Big Ten. But I do believe the ACC has made itself an attractive alternative if they choose not to go there.

Cheers,
Neil

Well, with the obvious qualifier positions can change at any moment, it sounds as if discussions with other hockey leagues last week indicated there's one prominent remaining option for Notre Dame in hockey, that is assuming independence is not a choice. But of course it looked like Oklahoma was leaving the Big 12 last week too, so we'll see how things turn out. Financially, I don't think they're in need of doing anything until 2014 for olympic sports (and only then if they're concerned by a weakened Big East revenue stream), so they can probably bide some more time.

I agree on the Hockey East. I think it makes the most sense, though the NCHC is quite attractive. The Hockey East would keep an Eastern identity but would also be easier to depart from if they do decide to leave for the Big Ten later down the road.

 

[omniorange]

I agree on the Hockey East. I think it makes the most sense, though the NCHC is quite attractive. The Hockey East would keep an Eastern identity but would also be easier to depart from if they do decide to leave for the Big Ten later down the road.

Or to take some programs with them as associate members to an ACC Hockey league with BC, Pitt, and possibly SU and UConn down the road?

Again, not saying where ND plays hockey will have much weight in the conference they choose for all-sports overall. Just pointing out the alternative.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[kyleslamb]

Missouri has scheduled a curator's meeting for Tuesday, and reports from A&M Scout Publisher David Sandhop are that Missouri met yesterday with Mike Slive in Birmingham and has until next Wednesday to act (I assume make some sort of move to leave the Big 12). Plane trackers had already found out yesterday that a plane went from Columbia to Birmingham, and the same plane was also in Chicago. So it's likely this report is on the money, especially since it's probably not a coincidence it was also in Chicago.

The question now becomes: what does the Big Ten do? Does it let Missouri run off to the SEC or step in? I think the Big Ten is committed to hitting the home runs, but are they willing to hit a double to get a guy on base?

 

[rrlbees]

Missouri has scheduled a curator's meeting for Tuesday, and reports from A&M Scout Publisher David Sandhop are that Missouri met yesterday with Mike Slive in Birmingham and has until next Wednesday to act (I assume make some sort of move to leave the Big 12). Plane trackers had already found out yesterday that a plane went from Columbia to Birmingham, and the same plane was also in Chicago. So it's likely this report is on the money, especially since it's probably not a coincidence it was also in Chicago.

The question now becomes: what does the Big Ten do? Does it let Missouri run off to the SEC or step in? I think the Big Ten is committed to hitting the home runs, but are they willing to hit a double to get a guy on base?

A lot of tweets out there today from the Swaim types. One had Missouri dropping out of the Big12 without even having a home yet. Another had WVU again involved with the SEC. Another reiterated Lville to the Big12. All of these things may not happen, but something will happen soon with some of these teams.

 

[Moontan]

It'll be good to get this wave or re-alignment completed (SEC's #14 and subsequent backfill). It's in Syracuse's best interest to see the NNBE get to 8 or 9 football programs so that it can be released from the 27-month purgatory.

 

[kyleslamb]

A lot of tweets out there today from the Swaim types. One had Missouri dropping out of the Big12 without even having a home yet. Another had WVU again involved with the SEC. Another reiterated Lville to the Big12. All of these things may not happen, but something will happen soon with some of these teams.

I'm convinced West Virginia isn't the SEC's first choice. If it were, it could have very well taken them before now. I think WVU is the fallback choice to Missouri at this juncture, if I had to guess. The SEC will wait out Missouri for a week or two, and if they decline or go off to the Big Ten instead, then the SEC will look at West Virginia or maybe internally reexamine their ACC options.

 

[sufan]

Missouri has scheduled a curator's meeting for Tuesday, and reports from A&M Scout Publisher David Sandhop are that Missouri met yesterday with Mike Slive in Birmingham and has until next Wednesday to act (I assume make some sort of move to leave the Big 12). Plane trackers had already found out yesterday that a plane went from Columbia to Birmingham, and the same plane was also in Chicago. So it's likely this report is on the money, especially since it's probably not a coincidence it was also in Chicago.

The question now becomes: what does the Big Ten do? Does it let Missouri run off to the SEC or step in? I think the Big Ten is committed to hitting the home runs, but are they willing to hit a double to get a guy on base?

-----------------------------

Re: Missouri and SEC

and